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Would you say HM oils have stronger Add packs than regular oils? #5164957 07/19/19 07:02 AM
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ZZman Offline OP
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It seems to me that they do.


2003 Mercury Grand Marquis.
2007 Hyundai Santa Fe AWD.
2005 Toyota Avalon XLS
2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 LT.
Re: Would you say HM oils have stronger Add packs than regular oils? [Re: ZZman] #5164981 07/19/19 07:20 AM
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buster Offline
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Usually boosted detergents and added seal conditioners.


2019 Nissan Frontier Pro 4X
2019 Subaru Impreza Sport
Re: Would you say HM oils have stronger Add packs than regular oils? [Re: buster] #5164988 07/19/19 07:27 AM
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ZZman Offline OP
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Originally Posted by buster
Usually boosted detergents and added seal conditioners.


I think often the moly and ZDDP are higher as well.


2003 Mercury Grand Marquis.
2007 Hyundai Santa Fe AWD.
2005 Toyota Avalon XLS
2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 LT.
Re: Would you say HM oils have stronger Add packs than regular oils? [Re: ZZman] #5165003 07/19/19 07:40 AM
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Yep, especially those that are API SL. More ZDDP, more detergent, and the viscosity is on the thicker side of its viscosity rating. For example, Royal Purple HMX 5w-30 is borderline a 5w-40, possibly 10w-40. There is a VOA of it here in BITOG, but from 2017.

Re: Would you say HM oils have stronger Add packs than regular oils? [Re: ZZman] #5165219 07/19/19 11:02 AM
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Mad_Hatter Offline
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Originally Posted by ZZman
Originally Posted by buster
Usually boosted detergents and added seal conditioners.


I think often the moly and ZDDP are higher as well.

Add boron and titanium (Kendall for example), EP additives. And I've found some have high(er) tbn's.

Most non boutique oils keep the zddp lvls in the 800ppm range though due to cats.

Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 07/19/19 11:04 AM.
Re: Would you say HM oils have stronger Add packs than regular oils? [Re: ZZman] #5165391 07/19/19 01:48 PM
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nthach Offline
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Mobil did at one time claim more ZDDP in M1HM, it's now SN Plus across the line but with ACEA A1/B1, A5/B5 and A3/B3 certifications as well. SOPUS claimed higher Zn in QS Defy but now it seems like a run of the mill HM oil.

There's more to the story like elevated Mo/B/Ti or some form of zinc that can't be picked up in a VOA. Castrol probably has something up their sleeves.

Re: Would you say HM oils have stronger Add packs than regular oils? [Re: nthach] #5165467 07/19/19 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by nthach
Mobil did at one time claim more ZDDP in M1HM, it's now SN Plus across the line but with ACEA A1/B1, A5/B5 and A3/B3 certifications as well. SOPUS claimed higher Zn in QS Defy but now it seems like a run of the mill HM oil.

There's more to the story like elevated Mo/B/Ti or some form of zinc that can't be picked up in a VOA. Castrol probably has something up their sleeves.

Cost of ingredients is a factor for sure. I've noticed more and more use of Boron. My guess is for the price of one, it serves multiple purposes. Like stabilizing pH and as an EP additive...but then you have some formulators that like to go an entirely different direction and [just] throw in gobs of moly. Kendall seems to prefer Ti. So dunno...🤔

My question is... what (blend of elements) is best/better??..if that's even answerable.

Re: Would you say HM oils have stronger Add packs than regular oils? [Re: ZZman] #5165623 07/19/19 05:54 PM
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If they're SN/GF-5, I wouldn't expect a marked difference over the "regular" version when it comes to phosphorus or viscosity.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, Wix 57356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Would you say HM oils have stronger Add packs than regular oils? [Re: Garak] #5165663 07/19/19 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Garak
If they're SN/GF-5, I wouldn't expect a marked difference over the "regular" version when it comes to phosphorus or viscosity.

There isn't as far as I can tell. Some are "thicker", some are "thinner".. there's no rhyme or reason. And phosphorus levels are pretty uniform across all mfgs much like zddp levels.

Re: Would you say HM oils have stronger Add packs than regular oils? [Re: Mad_Hatter] #5165688 07/19/19 06:46 PM
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Garak Offline
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I haven't been in an oil aisle in a long time to really take a look to see if there are any non-certified HM oils from any of the majors left. I do know that VR-1 has the extra additives, though not technically a high mileage oil, and is fairly cheap up here at our Walmarts. They only stock 20w-50, though, which is so helpful in a Canadian winter. wink


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, Wix 57356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Would you say HM oils have stronger Add packs than regular oils? [Re: Garak] #5165730 07/19/19 07:30 PM
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53' Stude Offline
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Originally Posted by Garak
I haven't been in an oil aisle in a long time to really take a look to see if there are any non-certified HM oils from any of the majors left. I do know that VR-1 has the extra additives, though not technically a high mileage oil, and is fairly cheap up here at our Walmarts. They only stock 20w-50, though, which is so helpful in a Canadian winter. wink


Oh god, 20w50 frown

Could have been some of the stuff Snagglefoot posted from Motul while back Think it was 15w50 wink



Re: Would you say HM oils have stronger Add packs than regular oils? [Re: ZZman] #5165738 07/19/19 07:42 PM
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Some of their marketing would lead you to believe they do.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Would you say HM oils have stronger Add packs than regular oils? [Re: 53' Stude] #5165755 07/19/19 07:54 PM
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Garak Offline
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Originally Posted by 53' Stude
Oh god, 20w50 frown

Last time I saw it, the 20w-50 VR1 was cheaper than many of the conventionals on the shelf. Go figure.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, Wix 57356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Would you say HM oils have stronger Add packs than regular oils? [Re: demarpaint] #5165758 07/19/19 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by demarpaint
Some of their marketing would lead you to believe they do.

That's what happens when the marketing dept gets a hold of a little data from engineering and runs with it/plays fast and loose.😂

I do know most of the Biggie's say that they have/use proprietary ingredients/formulas, so maybe there's stuff that doesn't necessarily show up on UOA's/PDS's???

Re: Would you say HM oils have stronger Add packs than regular oils? [Re: Mad_Hatter] #5165842 07/19/19 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Some of their marketing would lead you to believe they do.

That's what happens when the marketing dept gets a hold of a little data from engineering and runs with it/plays fast and loose.😂

I do know most of the Biggie's say that they have/use proprietary ingredients/formulas, so maybe there's stuff that doesn't necessarily show up on UOA's/PDS's???

The marketing department has to earn their keep. "Proprietary" there's another great word for selling a product.


God Bless Our Troops

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