Recent Topics
Glassware for bevarages
by Duffyjr - 06/05/20 08:24 AM
New Permatex Orange Threadlocker
by Snagglefoot - 06/05/20 07:39 AM
Peak Blue 64oz Diesel Cetane Booster $14.49
by Bighorn2500 - 06/05/20 07:22 AM
OTC Stinger 3 Ton Jack Stands, no good
by michaelluscher - 06/05/20 06:44 AM
$900 + a lot of shipping/fees electric car
by madRiver - 06/05/20 06:44 AM
PUP SP
by Koncrete_Cam - 06/05/20 05:52 AM
Hailstorm Yesterday
by Delta - 06/05/20 04:47 AM
Date code on Mighty Engine Guard II? Air Filter
by blufeb95 - 06/05/20 01:01 AM
My poor Jetta can't catch a break.
by FordBroncoVWJeta - 06/05/20 12:22 AM
Bought a truck finally, warning no Ford content
by bdcardinal - 06/04/20 11:31 PM
Got a septoplasty today....
by daves66nova - 06/04/20 10:44 PM
2020 330i xDrive Loaner
by MCompact - 06/04/20 10:02 PM
Appliance repair?
by motor_oil_madman - 06/04/20 09:44 PM
Glad we got a seasonal RV site
by Pat in Speedway - 06/04/20 09:19 PM
Mobil 1 AP Clearance at Wal-Mart
by KeithS_NW_Ohio - 06/04/20 09:07 PM
Recent experience with a Michelin Defender
by FordSVTGuy - 06/04/20 08:46 PM
music quality of speakers in the 70's vs now
by raaizin - 06/04/20 08:15 PM
pressure washer care
by raaizin - 06/04/20 08:06 PM
Newest Members
Jettero, TinyHouseTruck, stubby73, Polkaman, Ramboagain
71610 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
109 registered members (AndyB, 2015_PSD, 2004tdigls, amblerman, 77GrandPrix, 1911CHAMPION, 9 invisible), 1,514 guests, and 61 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics306,236
Posts5,288,765
Members71,610
Most Online4,538
Jan 20th, 2020
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A - Answers #5164213 07/18/19 11:02 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,826
wwillson Offline OP
Administrator
OP Offline
Administrator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,826
Responses from:
• Richard Dixon, Pennzoil Technology Manager
• Eric Kalberer, Shell Global Product Application Specialist
• Sean Nguyen, Pennzoil Scientist and Technology Specialist

GF-6

1. How should current Used Oil Analysis’ change to better capture composition changes in the GF-6 oils?
a. From GF-5 to GF-6, there are no regulatory change requirements in additive composition. For example: the required minimum level of Phosphorus remains the same at 0.06 % mass with a maximum of 0.08% mass. However, with the introduction of Low Speed Pre-Ignition (LSPI) protection in the new GF-6 category, analysis will likely show some elemental differences, reflecting the fact that GF-6 products must provide LSPI protection. Decreasing levels of Calcium detergent and increasing levels of Magnesium detergent are likely to be observed.

2. How does GF-6 improve upon GF-5 and is there a best equivalent ACEA spec?
a. GF-6 will introduce 7 new engine tests and 1 modified test to measure fuel economy and ensure lubrication and protection of modern engines. The tests cover the areas of oxidation, deposit resistance, wear protection, sludge and varnish protection, fuel economy, corrosion protection, LSPI and chain wear protection. The additional modified test was designed to measure fuel economy benefits for motor oils with SAE 0W-16 or lower in viscosity; called the Sequence VIF. The performance requirements for the motor oil have increased, almost completely across the board.
b. As for equivalent to ACEA, there are some similarities and some differences in their “High SAPS” (ACEA A5/B5) and “Low SAPS” (ACEA C5) categories to the GF-6 specification. There is also a planned introduction of the new category ACEA A6/B6 and C6 in 2020. These new categories will include similar LSPI, chain wear, turbocharger deposit protection tests and other tests specific to European standards. The Low SAPS product will limit the amount of Sulfated Ash & Phosphorus in the formula.

3. Can any details about the Low Speed Pre-Ignition testing for GF-6 be shared with us BITOGers?
a. Low-Speed Pre-Ignition (LSPI) is an abnormal combustion phenomenon observed at low engine speeds in which the fuel/air mixture in the combustion chambers ignites before spark timing. LSPI can cause engine knock, broken spark plugs and cracked pistons, and in severe cases, catastrophic engine failure. The industry accepted test is known as the Sequence IX and should have an ASTM test designation number by the end of 2019. It utilizes a 2012 Ford 4 cylinder, 2.0L TGDI engine that includes pressure sensors in the cylinders and a crank-angle encoder to characterize combustion cycles. The test has been designed to evaluate a lubricant’s ability to protect against the LSPI phenomenon.

4. I have a normally aspirated, non-gasoline direct injection engine - why should I care about GF-6?
a. The new GF-6 category is a replacement for GF-5 which will become obsolete. You should care because the category has been split into two pieces: GF-6A and GF-6B. GF-6A is backwards compatible and is a direct replacement for the existing GF-5 category. GF-6-B includes the new 0W-16 viscosity grade and will not be backwards compatible to cover previous GF specifications. As always, you should follow the manufacturer’s oil recommendation and specification for the correct type of motor oil to use.

5. How (or will?) GF-6a impact drain intervals?
a. GF-6 oils do not affect oil drain intervals. Always follow your owner’s manual for the recommended oil drain interval. It is always worth checking with your vehicle’s manufacturer to see if there are any service advisories issued. Always work from the latest information.

6. Will all Shell Oil Product US oils at the various price points, meet/carry GF-6a?
a. Shell Lubricants recently announced in early April 2019 that our Pennzoil Platinum line of motor oils are GF-6 ready and plan to have GF-6 products on shelves (and via digital retailers) by May 1, 2020. This will follow with the rest of our product portfolio later during the year. As of now, we expect to have the following products approved for GF-6 (by May 1, 2020): Pennzoil Platinum® and Pennzoil Platinum® High Mileage motor oils. As a technology leader, Pennzoil was delighted to be the first in the industry to announce GF-6 readiness.

7. Have any test procedures changed that are used to test an oil's wear performance in regards to engine wear limits, or have any changes been made in required GF-6 test sequences as lower oil viscosity such as 0W-16 becomes a more common oil specification by automakers? Wondering if engine wear or any other critical test spec limits are being relaxed as oil viscosity continues to decrease.
a. With the introduction of GF-6 category, new engines had to be incorporated into the test methods to represent modern engine technology while still protecting current vehicles on the road today. The new GF-6 standards have tighter limits that have raised performance requirements to qualify vs the former GF-5 standards. In fact, two new wear tests have been developed for GF-6. The first, known as the Sequence IVB test, was developed based on a modern Toyota engine to measure general engine and valve train wear. The second, known as the Sequence IX test, was developed on a Ford engine to measure timing chain wear.

8. Will GF-6 require reformulation of your Platinum line up?
a. The GF-6 category took some time to develop and, in fact, there has been a bridge between GF-5 and GF-6 with the API SN PLUS specification that included LSPI protection. As such, the Pennzoil Platinum product line went through a series of reformulation, testing and qualification in order to meet the new stricter standards. This work was incorporated to meet the SN PLUS requirements and will be maintained for GF-6. Of course, Pennzoil Platinum will retain the complete engine protection including unsurpassed wear protection, keeping cleaner pistons, performance in extreme temperatures and better fuel economy.

9. Will the GF-6 formulation be any improvement over current Pennzoil Dexos 1 Generation 2 formulation in terms of timing chain wear?
a. As a premium product, Pennzoil Platinum meets both GF-6 and dexos1 generation 2 specifications. Reformulations take into account both specifications and ensure we meet both.

10. I have used Pennzoil Ultra Platinum with great success on my Camry. Are you going to downgrade or finagle around with the Pennzoil Ultra Platinum additives to meet GF-6? I would hate to switch to M1EP/M1AFE if you downgrade the additives in Pennzoil Ultra Platinum.
a. You should not see any detriment using the new GF-6 category motor oil. With regards to Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ moving to GF-6, we will provide information in due course. Stay tuned.

11. Is GF-6 more shear-resistant than GF-5?
a. GF-6 did not adopt any changes to shear stability requirements or lower the ability for the oil to maintain viscosity grade after shear vs the GF-5 category.

Pennzoil Platinum 0W-16
1. What is the best way to explain to a thick-oil fan how a 0W-16 motor oil can protect your engine?
a. If your engine calls for a 0W-16 motor oil, it is designed to give you optimal fuel economy benefit with the required protection for the life of your oil drain. Using a thicker oil where a 0W-16 is recommended may reduce the efficiencies seen in using the correct SAE viscosity grade. Additionally, it may slow the delivery of motor oil to critical engine components at start-up and in extreme operating temperatures. However, an engine that recommends a higher SAE viscosity grade should not use an SAE 0W-16 motor oil. Again, always follow the recommended SAE grade recommended by your engine manufacturer.

2. When will Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0W-16 be available? You should be bringing out Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0w-16 first before Pennzoil Platinum 0w-16.
a. Currently we do not have plans to produce Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0W-16. However, Pennzoil Platinum SAE 0W-16 is currently available and was first to be introduced to the North American market in May of 2018.

3. Do you plan on recommending your 0w16 oil(s) for any vehicles that currently recommend an xW-20 oil?
a. If your vehicle calls for an SAE 0W-20 motor oil, we do not recommend using a 0W-16. It is the wrong viscosity grade and may not properly protect your engine. 0W-16 should only be used where 0W-16 is recommended. We recommend following your engine manufacturer’s recommendation for proper engine SAE grade oil.

4. Most of the technical papers discussed on BITOG show that engine components such as piston rings start to exhibit increased wear when the High-Temperature/High-Shear (HTHS) viscosity is lower than about 2.3 cP, which is where most 0W-16 oils will be. This leads to the question: As wear protection is decreased from a lower HTHS viscosity factor, what kind of changes in anti-wear additives will be needed to control wear for 0W-16 (or 0W-8 if it hits the market)? I'm assuming these less viscous oils will depend much more on anti-wear additives to control wear compared to a more viscous oil such as 5W-30 or higher.
a. For engines that call for SAE 0W-16 and lower, wear protection will be critical for engine durability. Thus, motor oil must be designed to give you a balance of wear protection and performance. Pennzoil Platinum SAE 0W-16 is specifically formulated, for engines calling for a 0W-16, to give you complete protection including unsurpassed wear protection, piston cleanliness, horsepower retention, performance in extreme temperatures and improved fuel economy benefit while still backed by our 10-year, 300K miles engine protection warranty (www.pennzoil.com/warranty)

5. I have no use for PP since you downgraded the additive package of Pennzoil Platinum to meet Low Speed Pre-Ignition (reduce Ca and increase Mg). Many Bitogers have the same concerns about this additive downgrade. Since the additive downgrade, I don't even trust Pennzoil Platinum to go the full 10K oil change interval on my Camry, which requires 10K OCI.
a. Changing detergent additive from Calcium to Magnesium has no effect in protection from wear or performance. We balanced our Pennzoil Platinum to give you complete engine protection and still backed by our engine protection warranty (www.pennzoil.com/warranty)

Other
1. Would it benefit any manufacturers come out and change their specs...like VAG saying to use 504 00 instead of the previous 502 00?
a. Motor oil specification changes due to the demand created by newer engine technology, material changes and legislation. Thus, it follows that newer test methods and tighter limits are required. However, with most category changes, it also requires that these new oil specifications must be backward compatible for previous specification and protect older vehicles that are still on the road today.

Re: Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A - Answers [Re: wwillson] #5164543 07/18/19 06:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,067
L
LotI Offline
Offline
L
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,067
Thanks for the time and effort! cheers


03 Honda Interceptor
11 Kawasaki KLR 650
12 Ford E450
19 Buick Regal TourX
Re: Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A - Answers [Re: wwillson] #5164601 07/18/19 07:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 28,128
G
Garak Offline
Offline
G
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 28,128
This is probably one of the better Q&A's we've seen!


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, Wix 57356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A - Answers [Re: wwillson] #5164629 07/18/19 07:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,032
R
Red91 Offline
Offline
R
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,032
It sounds as though there won't be much of a difference between current sn+/gf5 and gf6, and that the bulk of this change has already occurred. Is that a reasonable guess?


05 Chevy Impala
3.4 V6
Pit crew QS 10/30
Re: Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A - Answers [Re: wwillson] #5164956 07/19/19 06:58 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,758
V
Virtus_Probi Offline
Offline
V
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,758
Thanks to SOPUS for the info and for paying attention to the BITOG community!


2014 Forester XT, 114800 miles
Last Change;
Valvoline AFS 5W30
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 oil filter
Subaru 16546AA10A air filter
Re: Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A - Answers [Re: Red91] #5165223 07/19/19 11:13 AM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 4,214
M
Mad_Hatter Offline
Offline
M
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 4,214
Originally Posted by Red91
It sounds as though there won't be much of a difference between current sn+/gf5 and gf6, and that the bulk of this change has already occurred. Is that a reasonable guess?

From Chevron 👇

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 07/19/19 11:13 AM.
Re: Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A - Answers [Re: Mad_Hatter] #5165336 07/19/19 01:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,032
R
Red91 Offline
Offline
R
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,032
That's exactly like what shell has said, and between the lines, to me at least, we've already got oil on the market as sn+ that are pretty much doing what gf6 will do. That's not a criticism of gf6, it's just my conclusion that sn+ is less of a bridge to gf6 and more like gf6 "lite", if that makes any sense.


05 Chevy Impala
3.4 V6
Pit crew QS 10/30
Re: Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A - Answers [Re: Red91] #5165349 07/19/19 01:09 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 13,435
PimTac Offline
Offline
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 13,435
Originally Posted by Red91
That's exactly like what shell has said, and between the lines, to me at least, we've already got oil on the market as sn+ that are pretty much doing what gf6 will do. That's not a criticism of gf6, it's just my conclusion that sn+ is less of a bridge to gf6 and more like gf6 "lite", if that makes any sense.




I have a different take on this. When the proposed specs are laid out and agreed upon by the oil companies it gives them the opportunity to blend a oil that meets the specs early on and conduct proper research rather than wait until the official start date. The only thing they cannot do is label the bottles with the new spec until that official date.


2017 Mazda CX5
Mobil 1 Annual Protection 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A - Answers [Re: PimTac] #5165357 07/19/19 01:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,032
R
Red91 Offline
Offline
R
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,032
Well I suppose that's kind of what I'm getting at, especially with regards to sopus. I'm thinking, and correct me if I'm wrong, that Pennzoil was dumping gtl stocks into their oil(and possibly even some Quaker state) well before they started marketing Pennzoil platinum with gtl advertised. Sopus is saying may of 2020 for the "new" product, but I strongly suspect it's already on Walmart shelves, but labeled as sn+/gf5/d1g2.


05 Chevy Impala
3.4 V6
Pit crew QS 10/30
Re: Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A - Answers [Re: wwillson] #5165654 07/19/19 06:23 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 4,214
M
Mad_Hatter Offline
Offline
M
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 4,214
I don't think SN+ addresses timing chain wear, that would be D1G2. So GF-6 is "catching up" so to speak to D1G2 (which makes sense because as I understand it GM was pushing ILSAC to adopt D1G2 standards.. and now here we are), more so than SN+. I believe SN+ was an ad hoc to address the lspi phenomena only???

Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 07/19/19 06:25 PM.
Re: Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A - Answers [Re: wwillson] #5198732 08/28/19 09:46 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,984
Z
ZZman Offline
Offline
Z
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6,984
Wished their platinum products ran closer to the max on ZDDP instead of the minimum.


2005 Toyota Avalon XLS 3.5 motor
2014 Ford Fusion 2.5 motor
Re: Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A - Answers [Re: wwillson] #5198773 08/28/19 11:01 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 279
G
gamefoo21 Offline
Offline
G
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 279
I thought it was cute how he danced around 'performance vs protection'.

So if you want maximal protection you have to sacrifice performance and vice versa.

Guess there are no free lunches.

Re: Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A - Answers [Re: wwillson] #5265086 11/12/19 02:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 33
H
HiPowerShooter Offline
Offline
H
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 33
I still don't get peoples reasoning for not using what engineers with direct working knowledge of their engines call for. Haven't we moved past this "thick oil is better" thing? It's based on decades old backward technology, engines built using higher tolerance and lack of VVT and such.
I've used nothing but what is called for in my trucks, SUV's and cars for years and have put multi hundreds of thousand miles on many of them without any oil related issues. I'm positive most of the general public does the same.
It's almost as antiquated thinking as the whole FRAM scare...
Just use what's on the filler cap...change it when it needs to be changed(there is no mileage or time interval...everyone needs to use common sense based on living conditions and usage) and stop thinking that YOU know more than the people who designed it.

"Thick oil"...c'mon. you're not driving some 50 y/o SBC are you???


"One test is worth a thousand expert opinions"--Alvin "Tex" Johnston...Boeing 707 test pilot.
Re: Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A - Answers [Re: Red91] #5428730 05/14/20 03:38 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,870
4WD Offline
Offline
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 12,870
Shell will sell GTL base stock to others just like CVX and XOM sell base stock. Having a binding contract always has the potential to change in house decisions.

Re: Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A - Answers [Re: HiPowerShooter] #5428852 05/14/20 08:33 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,066
J
john_pifer Offline
Offline
J
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,066
Originally Posted by HiPowerShooter
I still don't get peoples reasoning for not using what engineers with direct working knowledge of their engines call for. Haven't we moved past this "thick oil is better" thing? It's based on decades old backward technology, engines built using higher tolerance and lack of VVT and such.
I've used nothing but what is called for in my trucks, SUV's and cars for years and have put multi hundreds of thousand miles on many of them without any oil related issues. I'm positive most of the general public does the same.
It's almost as antiquated thinking as the whole FRAM scare...
Just use what's on the filler cap...change it when it needs to be changed(there is no mileage or time interval...everyone needs to use common sense based on living conditions and usage) and stop thinking that YOU know more than the people who designed it.

"Thick oil"...c'mon. you're not driving some 50 y/o SBC are you???


I see you’ve been a member here since 2013, but, to quote someone who’s been in the news just a little bit lately, “c’mon man”! What rock have you been under? Haven’t you heard that thin oils are specified by the OEMs in an attempt to comply with government-mandated fuel economy standards (CAFE)?

There are many vehicles whose manufacturers have called for a certain grade of oil here in the USA (say, 0W-20), while thicker grade is specified in other countries (say, Australia). The reason is as I said above - govt mandated efficiency standards.

Heck, take the engine in my 2007 Tacoma. It’s been in vehicles here since around 2005, and you can still get that engine in a brand-new 2020 4Runner (with a few small upgrades - mainly dual VVT-i instead of single VVT-i like on mine). My truck says “5W-30” on the cap, while newer versions say “0W-20”.

Also, you use the term “tolerances” when I think you actually mean “clearances”. And, no, modern engines do not have tighter bearing clearances or piston to bore clearances that necessitate thinner oil. Nor are VVT systems sensitive to oil grade. Otherwise, as another member recently pointed out, none of these engines with VVT systems would run when it gets cold outside and the oil becomes orders of magnitude thicker.

And another thing - it is just a fact that thicker oil will provide better protection for an engine under certain operating conditions.

Thin oils are for economy. Thicker oils are for better protection and longevity.

You can make your own choice. I’ve made mine.


07 Tacoma V6 - M1 EP 5W-30, Fram Ultra, 10K OCIs, 228K
18 Civic HB 1.5T 6MT (Wife's) - PPPP 10W-30, OEM filter
07 Yamaha R1 - Rotella T6 5W-40, Bosch 3300
07 Yamaha YZ-250, Klotz, Rotella

Page 1 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™