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Less likely to lose oil: 5w20 with noack around 8% or 5w30 with noack around 14% #5163751 07/17/19 06:26 PM
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Whammo Offline OP
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I am confused which would be more likely to lose oil. A thicker oil with a high noack or a thinner oil with a low noack...

I have a GDI that loses quite a lot of oil between changes so this is something I've been thinking about

Last edited by Whammo; 07/17/19 06:28 PM.
Re: Less likely to lose oil: 5w20 with noack around 8% or 5w30 with noack around 14% [Re: Whammo] #5163762 07/17/19 06:41 PM
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First question ?

What kind of motor are we even talking about ???

Re: Less likely to lose oil: 5w20 with noack around 8% or 5w30 with noack around 14% [Re: kstanf150] #5163764 07/17/19 06:42 PM
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Theta 2 KIA

Re: Less likely to lose oil: 5w20 with noack around 8% or 5w30 with noack around 14% [Re: Whammo] #5163772 07/17/19 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Whammo
I have a GDI that loses quite a lot of oil between changes...

Loses oil, as in leaks, or burns it ?

Re: Less likely to lose oil: 5w20 with noack around 8% or 5w30 with noack around 14% [Re: Whammo] #5163787 07/17/19 07:03 PM
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The following study found out that in a typical healthy engine, oil volatility (as measured by Noack) contributes to around 1/3 of the total oil consumption. So, 1/3 * (14% - 8%) / 8% = 25%, which means a 25% increase in oil consumption in a healthy engine.

I am guessing the dominant oil-consumption mechanism in your case is not evaporation but transport though.

The contribution of different oil-consumption sources (PDF link)
The contribution of different oil-consumption sources to total oil consumption in a spark-ignition engine
Ertan Yılmaz, Tian Tian, Victor W. Wong, and John B. Heywood
Sloan Automotive Laboratory, Massachusetts Institute of Technology


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Re: Less likely to lose oil: 5w20 with noack around 8% or 5w30 with noack around 14% [Re: hallstevenson] #5163849 07/17/19 08:10 PM
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Whammo Offline OP
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Well it just had the gasket replaced and still is losing some oil somewhere (we don't see any smoke either). There is no longer any oil on the ground where I park.

Last edited by Whammo; 07/17/19 08:13 PM.
Re: Less likely to lose oil: 5w20 with noack around 8% or 5w30 with noack around 14% [Re: Whammo] #5163866 07/17/19 08:43 PM
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Give it 6 months.
Look for leaks.
Don't take it too seriously.

Report back after Christmas.
Seriously.


2001 Mitsubishi Galant 2.4 - 165k+
Grandma's creampuff...
Re: Less likely to lose oil: 5w20 with noack around 8% or 5w30 with noack around 14% [Re: Whammo] #5163888 07/17/19 09:10 PM
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girlfriends 13 malibu was taking a qt on a thou at 63 thou + thats with synthetic 5-40 + a trade was the cure! no smoke no drips. 5-20 dexos was the worse then 10-30 doing better for a while then 5-40 until a trade all decent fake synthetic group III oils. never tried redline in it but its ester base oils are said to be best for DI + very low noacks. being in a cooler climate a 5-30 real synthetic in winter + a 10-30 real synthetic in summer + redlines ester oil flows great in extreme cold + resists burnoff in high heat

Re: Less likely to lose oil: 5w20 with noack around 8% or 5w30 with noack around 14% [Re: Whammo] #5163894 07/17/19 09:17 PM
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Mainia Offline
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Originally Posted by Whammo
I am confused which would be more likely to lose oil. A thicker oil with a high noack or a thinner oil with a low noack...

I have a GDI that loses quite a lot of oil between changes so this is something I've been thinking about



What kind of Kia, year model and how many miles? Do you get less oil loss in the Minnesota Winters with added fuel dilution?


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Re: Less likely to lose oil: 5w20 with noack around 8% or 5w30 with noack around 14% [Re: Whammo] #5163898 07/17/19 09:25 PM
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ammolab Offline
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How much loss is “quite a lot” during an OCI?


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Re: Less likely to lose oil: 5w20 with noack around 8% or 5w30 with noack around 14% [Re: Whammo] #5164086 07/18/19 06:51 AM
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I'd say the 5W-30 would provide more stable oil consumption.


People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
Re: Less likely to lose oil: 5w20 with noack around 8% or 5w30 with noack around 14% [Re: Cujet] #5164193 07/18/19 09:23 AM
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Ah, similar to the Kia Soul 5w20 ,5w30 debate i started a few days ago. After eight pages of response I'm still torn. In your question the low NOACK would be the breaker.


2017 Kia Soul Plus-- Valvoline Daily Protection 5w30+ a bit of Harvest King syn 5w30-- 75,000 miles
Re: Less likely to lose oil: 5w20 with noack around 8% or 5w30 with noack around 14% [Re: Whammo] #5164240 07/18/19 10:38 AM
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How much oil are you using, a qrt every how many miles?

Noack can be tricked by the use of vii, HTHS cannot as it is a hotter test, or should I say less likely to be tricked. Get both numbers if you can, even .1 hths more will withstand more burn. I'd be looking at the heaviest sn+ 5w30 I could find, bonus for high moly. It is very likely that the heaviest cSt will follow suit, but yes if you can good too see the triangle cst, noack, and hths.

Re: Less likely to lose oil: 5w20 with noack around 8% or 5w30 with noack around 14% [Re: burla] #5164249 07/18/19 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by burla
How much oil are you using, a qrt every how many miles?

Noack can be tricked by the use of vii, HTHS cannot as it is a hotter test, or should I say less likely to be tricked. Get both numbers if you can, even .1 hths more will withstand more burn. I'd be looking at the heaviest sn+ 5w30 I could find, bonus for high moly. It is very likely that the heaviest cSt will follow suit, but yes if you can good too see the triangle cst, noack, and hths.


?

Noack volatility test is much hotter than the HTHS test:
https://www.mt.com/ca/en/home/supportive_content/matchar_apps/MatChar_UC252.html

Quote
The Noack test to quantitatively determine the evaporation loss of oils under standard conditions was introduced many years ago. For example, the DIN 51581 [3] test method measures the evaporation loss over a period of one hour at 250 °C under vacuum (2 mbar).

The ASTM D6375 standard thermogravimetric test method was developed [5] to combine the advantages of the gas chromatographic method [6] with the realistic conditions of the traditional Noack test. The method is quicker and more reliable than both and can be performed with less sample material.

According to the ASTM D6375 method, a sample is heated rapidly in a crucible to 249 °C and held isothermally for 30 min at this temperature during which time the TGA curve is recorded.


HTHS visc is measured at 150C, 100C cooler.

Volatility hinges heavily on the base oil. Lighter bases are more volatile, and while VII content will have an effect on it, overall, one must use heavier bases to achieve lower volatility.

On the other hand, HTHS visc is easily pumped up using VII, which is why high visc spread oils like 5w-50 have high HTHS, yet shear like mad. If you look at the SRT 0w-40, it has a much higher Noack than the "Euro" 0w-40's like Ravenol (Noack 8.5%) because it uses, IIRC, a 4cSt GTL base oil.


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2020 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: Less likely to lose oil: 5w20 with noack around 8% or 5w30 with noack around 14% [Re: Whammo] #5164255 07/18/19 10:58 AM
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Or just get a 5w30 with a low NOACK...


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