ZF Aftermarket, Why Change Your ATF
- Thread starter BMWTurboDzl
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And all I could think of while watching this was:
![[Linked Image]](https://i.imgur.com/dxwVdeV.jpg "[Linked Image]")
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excellent! nice seeing the transmission maker telling the truth versus the car maker hiding the same.
Interesting to me that BMW says it's good to go forever....and ZF says not so much.
I wonder who pays the repair costs for those vehicles that have long term warranty plans?
Sometimes the warranty is baked into the cost of the component, and other cases it is back charged after the fact.
I wonder who pays the repair costs for those vehicles that have long term warranty plans?
Sometimes the warranty is baked into the cost of the component, and other cases it is back charged after the fact.
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Jeep says it's a "lifetime" fluid as well. I don't know what the rebuild cost is for a ZF 8 speed but would guess it's big bucks.
I'm a big fan of changing ATF early and often!
I'm a big fan of changing ATF early and often!
They recommend changing the fluid every 62,000 miles.
Some podcasts I listen to agree wholeheartedly with this even saying 30k miles for a d&f...no flushes.
My last car was a Mazda 6 with lifetime fill that I changed at 20k. The first dealer I called for fluid asked me why I wanted fluid, even their replacements came pre-filled...I hung up the phone. I paid $16/qt for blue fluid but it's much less than a replacement transmission.
Even my current manual GTI fluid got changed at 40k, again it's a lifetime fill.
My last car was a Mazda 6 with lifetime fill that I changed at 20k. The first dealer I called for fluid asked me why I wanted fluid, even their replacements came pre-filled...I hung up the phone. I paid $16/qt for blue fluid but it's much less than a replacement transmission.
Even my current manual GTI fluid got changed at 40k, again it's a lifetime fill.
Kestas
Staff member
Temperature must be 30°C to refill. That's about ambient temperature this week. Now is the time to do it without using temperature probes.
Great video. Shows changing fluid on a ZF 8 speed trans is not VooDoo. Just common sense. FYI........30C = 86F
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Makes me wonder what a baguette would taste like dipped in ATF!
My mechanic says lifetime means until it breaks because it needed new fluid.
My mechanic says lifetime means until it breaks because it needed new fluid.
What amazes me is there are people who think the fluid is good for life, because the OM says so. LOL
Originally Posted by cos
Jeep says it's a "lifetime" fluid as well. I don't know what the rebuild cost is for a ZF 8 speed but would guess it's big bucks. I'm a big fan of changing ATF early and often!
Well, per ZF, if you do a lot of towing then an D&F every 62k miles or 8yrs is recommended.
Originally Posted by nascarnation
Interesting to me that BMW says it's good to go forever....and ZF says not so much.
I wonder who pays the repair costs for those vehicles that have long term warranty plans?
Sometimes the warranty is baked into the cost of the component, and other cases it is back charged after the fact.
I can't speak for other automakers but BMW has been known to provide "goodwill replacement" of these transmissions which fail outside warranty but prior to 100k miles. I don't know their methodology but I would think a vehicle would be eligible if in general it didn't show signs of abuse and the transmission has not been opened. BMW doesn't repair but replaces with a re-manufactured unit (new internals but the housing is not new).
Originally Posted by demarpaint
What amazes me is there are people who think the fluid is good for life, because the OM says so. LOL
To be fair this presentation is from their Aftermarket group which by definition has an incentive to push for maintenance and ZFs own literature states the following:
"5-, 6-, 8- and 9-speed as well as 4HP20 automatic transmissions:
ZF 5-, 6-, 8- and 9-speed as well as the ZF 4HP20 automatic transmissions are filled maintenance-free with specially developed
partially synthetic ATF oils. Maintenance-free fills are intended for normal operating conditions. Especially driving at very high operating temperatures can result in accelerated aging or increased wear of ATF oils. In case of above-average operating conditions, such as:
- frequent freeway driving in the upper speed range
- offensive, sporty driving style
- frequent trailer operation
it is recommended to refresh (change) the oil of the automatic transmission every 100,000 km or no later than after 8 years.
In each case, only released ATF oil may be used for oil changes. And oil changes must be performed in accordance with the
relevant specifications."
From a cost basis perspective I don't see why anyone wouldn't want to perform a D&F at 62k miles regardless.
Jeep says it's a "lifetime" fluid as well. I don't know what the rebuild cost is for a ZF 8 speed but would guess it's big bucks. I'm a big fan of changing ATF early and often!
Well, per ZF, if you do a lot of towing then an D&F every 62k miles or 8yrs is recommended.
Originally Posted by nascarnation
Interesting to me that BMW says it's good to go forever....and ZF says not so much.
I wonder who pays the repair costs for those vehicles that have long term warranty plans?
Sometimes the warranty is baked into the cost of the component, and other cases it is back charged after the fact.
I can't speak for other automakers but BMW has been known to provide "goodwill replacement" of these transmissions which fail outside warranty but prior to 100k miles. I don't know their methodology but I would think a vehicle would be eligible if in general it didn't show signs of abuse and the transmission has not been opened. BMW doesn't repair but replaces with a re-manufactured unit (new internals but the housing is not new).
Originally Posted by demarpaint
What amazes me is there are people who think the fluid is good for life, because the OM says so. LOL
To be fair this presentation is from their Aftermarket group which by definition has an incentive to push for maintenance and ZFs own literature states the following:
"5-, 6-, 8- and 9-speed as well as 4HP20 automatic transmissions:
ZF 5-, 6-, 8- and 9-speed as well as the ZF 4HP20 automatic transmissions are filled maintenance-free with specially developed
partially synthetic ATF oils. Maintenance-free fills are intended for normal operating conditions. Especially driving at very high operating temperatures can result in accelerated aging or increased wear of ATF oils. In case of above-average operating conditions, such as:
- frequent freeway driving in the upper speed range
- offensive, sporty driving style
- frequent trailer operation
it is recommended to refresh (change) the oil of the automatic transmission every 100,000 km or no later than after 8 years.
In each case, only released ATF oil may be used for oil changes. And oil changes must be performed in accordance with the
relevant specifications."
From a cost basis perspective I don't see why anyone wouldn't want to perform a D&F at 62k miles regardless.
In my recent thread asking about long life coolants, many responded that they should be good to go the distance (10 years/100-150K miles). A lot of tranny manufacturers are recommending 60k mile fluid changes for severe conditions. We know that today's tranny fluids are superior to the old ones. Many BITOGers still seem to be adamant about pursuing 30K tranny fluid changes while extending other fluids out (i.e. - oil to 7.5k miles+). Is tranny fluid darkening and fuzz on the magnet a good metric to judge it's condition (that's a common response when questioned)?
We seem to have double standards when considering tranny fluids.
We seem to have double standards when considering tranny fluids.
Interesting.
I think I'm more surprised at the circuits (paths) in the valvebody(?). I had thought most of that had gone away with electric solenoids etc, no need to route fluid like that. Guess I was wrong.
I still think this'd be a lot easier if they'd just put on a dipstick...
I think I'm more surprised at the circuits (paths) in the valvebody(?). I had thought most of that had gone away with electric solenoids etc, no need to route fluid like that. Guess I was wrong.
I still think this'd be a lot easier if they'd just put on a dipstick...
Originally Posted by supton
Interesting.
I think I'm more surprised at the circuits (paths) in the valvebody(?). I had thought most of that had gone away with electric solenoids etc, no need to route fluid like that. Guess I was wrong.
I still think this'd be a lot easier if they'd just put on a dipstick...
It is unbelievable how such a simple device can cause so much dmage, expenses etc. when you get rid of it.
BMW went with no dipstick on engines since 2005. Some diesels retained for some time, but it went away with N series diesels too.
Few weeks back I am in BMW dealership trying E90 335i 6MT, and new X7 has hood open, 4.4TT. I am looking at changes on the engine, and guess what? Dipstick is back!!! I asked technician and he said that BMW mechanics complained that it takes soooooo much time for them to determine oil level electronically that it just does not make any sense. Apparently, soon most BMW will come with one. Would be good to see them back in transmissions too.
Interesting.
I think I'm more surprised at the circuits (paths) in the valvebody(?). I had thought most of that had gone away with electric solenoids etc, no need to route fluid like that. Guess I was wrong.
I still think this'd be a lot easier if they'd just put on a dipstick...
It is unbelievable how such a simple device can cause so much dmage, expenses etc. when you get rid of it.
BMW went with no dipstick on engines since 2005. Some diesels retained for some time, but it went away with N series diesels too.
Few weeks back I am in BMW dealership trying E90 335i 6MT, and new X7 has hood open, 4.4TT. I am looking at changes on the engine, and guess what? Dipstick is back!!! I asked technician and he said that BMW mechanics complained that it takes soooooo much time for them to determine oil level electronically that it just does not make any sense. Apparently, soon most BMW will come with one. Would be good to see them back in transmissions too.
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Originally Posted by demarpaint
What amazes me is there are people who think the fluid is good for life, because the OM says so. LOL
I've asked my dealer and Subaru of NA to DEFINE what "lifetime" means....
My version of lifetime for my 17 Outback is 10 years and 250k. I was stared at like I was an alien.
What amazes me is there are people who think the fluid is good for life, because the OM says so. LOL
I've asked my dealer and Subaru of NA to DEFINE what "lifetime" means....
My version of lifetime for my 17 Outback is 10 years and 250k. I was stared at like I was an alien.
Originally Posted by doitmyself
In my recent thread asking about long life coolants, many responded that they should be good to go the distance (10 years/100-150K miles). A lot of tranny manufacturers are recommending 60k mile fluid changes for severe conditions. We know that today's tranny fluids are superior to the old ones. Many BITOGers still seem to be adamant about pursuing 30K tranny fluid changes while extending other fluids out (i.e. - oil to 7.5k miles+). Is tranny fluid darkening and fuzz on the magnet a good metric to judge it's condition (that's a common response when questioned)?
We seem to have double standards when considering tranny fluids.
I prefer to remove the break in material out and then replace the fluid every 75-100K miles.
In my recent thread asking about long life coolants, many responded that they should be good to go the distance (10 years/100-150K miles). A lot of tranny manufacturers are recommending 60k mile fluid changes for severe conditions. We know that today's tranny fluids are superior to the old ones. Many BITOGers still seem to be adamant about pursuing 30K tranny fluid changes while extending other fluids out (i.e. - oil to 7.5k miles+). Is tranny fluid darkening and fuzz on the magnet a good metric to judge it's condition (that's a common response when questioned)?
We seem to have double standards when considering tranny fluids.
I prefer to remove the break in material out and then replace the fluid every 75-100K miles.
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