Valvoline's Testing Capability

Originally Posted by bbhero
Could well be the case....

Avoidance beats the cure
lol.gif


And even if Valvoline put a disclaimer on a extended drain product like "not for turbo/gdi engines" we all know people won't heed it. And a good product liability lawyer can punch holes in labeling language. Heck, the threat alone of losing litigation in a class action suit is enough to get mfgs to settle. If I were Valvoline, I wouldn't want any part of that... especially since the revenue from the extended drain interval market segment (I'd wager) pales in comparison to their normal interval market and other downstream business units like VIOC ctrs.
 
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I believe that in general, any modern full synthetic is going to perform similarly up to a certain point. Beyond that your more robust oils will hold up better. Some engines will just destroy any oil regardless. I'm not necessarily knocking Valvoline. I like Valvoline and think they are better than they ever have been.

With todays GDI engines, I personally am a bit more hesitant on extending drains but it can be done.

To Mobil's credit, they used GDI engines when testing AP.

https://mobiloil.com/en/article/why...8257AD42B9970C3D3F0CE88F75&_z=z#wear

"To simulate beyond-extreme annual driving conditions, a 120,000-mile proof of performance test was carried out at the ExxonMobil Research and Engineering facility in Paulsboro, New Jersey. Three vehicles - all featuring turbocharged, direct-injection engines, which are notoriously tough on oil - were tested:

2015 Chevrolet Malibu LT, 2.0L TGDI
2015 Lexus NX 200t, 2.0 L Turbo
2016 Ford Fusion SE, 1.5 L EcoBoost"
 
Following the manufactures recommended oil change Interval I believe Valvoline is just as good as M1 etc.


Personally I think it's smart they don't claim to sell a long drain oil as most modern engines have no business running extended drain intervals, IMO.

I like Valvoline oils. Always had good service from Valvoline.
 
Questios though ..

We're any of these starts cold?? Aka less than 20°F...or below 0°F... Or down to -20°F... With shirt trips following these colder starts...x

Were any of these very short trip in nature?? Like a a lot of them??

Were most of those miles runs at a constant operating steady state like going down the interstate??


Testing may well not match real world usage...
 
Originally Posted by pbm
When I first came to BITOG there was a lot of criticism of Valvoline products...."weak formula"...."low on additives"....."shouldn't run it more than 3K (dino)"...."uses cheap sodium additive package" etc....Now it is a darling of the site.

I like Valvoline and actually have their synthetic 5w20 in one of my vehicles currently.....I have never seen a bad UOA from Valvoline.
Having said that, I would choose Mobil 1 or Castrol Edge Gold if I were going to extend my OCI beyond 7500 miles....



I agree with this at the end of the day...

If ever I wanted to do a really long run... Castrol Extended Performance or Mobil 1 EP would be my choices.
 
Originally Posted by bbhero
Questios though ..

We're any of these starts cold?? Aka less than 20°F...or below 0°F... Or down to -20°F... With shirt trips following these colder starts...x

Were any of these very short trip in nature?? Like a a lot of them??

Were most of those miles runs at a constant operating steady state like going down the interstate??


Testing may well not match real world usage...



Right. ðŸ‘

Originally Posted by pbm

Having said that, I would choose Mobil 1 or Castrol Edge Gold if I were going to extend my OCI beyond 7500 miles....


Agreed.

Good rule of thumb and each car, driving habits are different so what works for one might not for another.
 
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Originally Posted by Doublehaul
Based on UOAs valvoline oils are the best money can buy...per this web page.

Show me a bad valvoline uoa


Another thing I've noticed in Valvoline UOAs is that Valvoline Advanced shears down very little and holds it's new viscosity very well. That's a good thing IMO.
 
I have mostly Mobil 1 in the garage at the the moment but I like Valvoline synthetic also. I wound up using the Valvoline Instant Oil Change place for my last 2 oil changes in the Frontier because I was busy with other stuff and I have my tools packed up for moving now. I think it's as good as any of the other comparably priced oils.
 
Originally Posted by fisher83
I have mostly Mobil 1 in the garage at the the moment but I like Valvoline synthetic also. I wound up using the Valvoline Instant Oil Change place for my last 2 oil changes in the Frontier because I was busy with other stuff and I have my tools packed up for moving now. I think it's as good as any of the other comparably priced oils.

If I couldn't get around to changing the oil, the VIOC centers would be my first choice (amongst qwik lube places) of places to get it done.
 
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Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by fisher83
I have mostly Mobil 1 in the garage at the the moment but I like Valvoline synthetic also. I wound up using the Valvoline Instant Oil Change place for my last 2 oil changes in the Frontier because I was busy with other stuff and I have my tools packed up for moving now. I think it's as good as any of the other comparably priced oils.

If I couldn't get around to changing the oil, the VIOC centers would be my first choice (amongst qwik lube places) of places to get it done.



The posters staying this about Valvoline never bothered to read UOA's of the product.
 
Originally Posted by dave1251

The posters staying this about Valvoline never bothered to read UOA's of the product.


How much of a "poor" UOA is a function of a bad engine and/or driving habits, towing, % at WOT blah blah blah???

And I just did a quick search on Google using the terms UOA and Valvoline and found numerous positive reports in different forums, so what am I missing here???
 
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This OP wasn't not intended to knock Valvoline. I like Valvoline and think they are better than ever. Their VOIC is the best of the QL's that I've been to. I also think their oils are top notch. I still don't agree they are built for longer drains. You can tell by some of the product literature out there that their oils fall short in the oxidation tests, including PP. The one thing I've noticed over the years is their TBN retention is not that great.
 
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by dave1251

The posters staying this about Valvoline never bothered to read UOA's of the product.


How much of a "poor" UOA is a function of a bad engine and/or driving habits, towing, % at WOT blah blah blah???

And I just did a quick search on Google using the terms UOA and Valvoline and found numerous positive reports in different forums, so what am I missing here???


You are missing I am defending Valvoline. If the recommended OCI from the factory is an "extended" drain Valvoline holds up just as well as any other.
 
Originally Posted by buster
The one thing I've noticed over the years is their TBN retention is not that great.

Ok, so I have a question... when a UOA shows a "low" TBN, is that a commentary about the oil or the engine or both potentially?? The additives in an engine that neutralize acids are finite, in other words once used they're done. A big drop in tbn tells you the add pk is doing it's job but...

If the engine has a problem with contaminants (dust/dirt) that can lead to oil degradation (oxidation) or keeping the engine (oil) cool which can lead to thermal breakdown of the oil or other acid inducing condition like air/water/addition of slightly acidic aftermarket additives no starting TBN can cover that up forever, right??

Seems to me also testing and tracking trends of the total acid number would help determine if you're even running the right oil, running it too long for your engine/driving habits (causing premature oxidation). I would think in ideal situation you change out the oil before the antioxidants are depleted to avoid that tipping point (spike in acids) where the lack of antiox causes the oil to degrade rapidly. In other words, [also] tracking TAN gives you more visibility into the TBN value.
 
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Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by dave1251

The posters staying this about Valvoline never bothered to read UOA's of the product.


How much of a "poor" UOA is a function of a bad engine and/or driving habits, towing, % at WOT blah blah blah???

And I just did a quick search on Google using the terms UOA and Valvoline and found numerous positive reports in different forums, so what am I missing here???


You are missing I am defending Valvoline. If the recommended OCI from the factory is an "extended" drain Valvoline holds up just as well as any other.

My bad, that got lost on me. Sorry...
 
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by buster
The one thing I've noticed over the years is their TBN retention is not that great.

Ok, so I have a question... when a UOA shows a "low" TBN, is that a commentary about the oil or the engine or both potentially?? The additives in an engine that neutralize acids are finite, in other words once used they're done. A big drop in tbn tells you the add pk is doing it's job but...

If the engine has a problem with contaminants (dust/dirt) that can lead to oil degradation (oxidation) or keeping the engine (oil) cool which can lead to thermal breakdown of the oil or other acid inducing condition like air/water/addition of slightly acidic aftermarket additives no starting TBN can cover that up forever, right??

Seems to me also testing and tracking trends of the total acid number would help determine if you're even running the right oil, running it too long for your engine/driving habits (causing premature oxidation). I would think in ideal situation you change out the oil before the antioxidants are depleted to avoid that tipping point (spike in acids) where the lack of antiox causes the oil to degrade rapidly. In other words, TAN gives you more visibility into the TBN value.


TBN can be tricky, but I've seen Valvoline's TBN at 0 and 1 several times, and these were shorter intervals. Now this was several years ago so I don't know if that's the case now (I doubt it). I think Valvoline is great oil and I'd use it without any question.
 
Originally Posted by buster
TBN can be tricky, but I've seen Valvoline's TBN at 0 and 1 several times, and these were shorter intervals. Now this was several years ago so I don't know if that's the case now (I doubt it). I think Valvoline is great oil and I'd use it without any question.


And that would alarm the heck out of me too if I saw that on my UOA. However, I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss it as a problem with the oil since it could be a case where there may be too many contaminants entering my engine causing the oil to degrade/oxidize at an alarming rate. I am confident Valvoline has just as good petrochemical scientists as any of the other big mfgs like Chevron or Shell or XOM to formulate a good anti ox pkg.

I would use Valvoline any day of the week and twice on Sundays. And if I saw a bad UOA where tbn dropped significantly like you mentioned, i would run another brand of oil to see if the situation duplicates itself with another companies add pk maybe even do a mid term sampling of the oils TAN/TBN numbers to see if I can spot where/when things are going south.

Could be a poor/low quality air filter letting in too much dirt or maybe I'm doing too much short tripping or idling, not allowing the oil to cycle?? Just seems there's a lot of variables that can hasten oil degradation.. and we all know once that oil begins to breakdown bad things begin to happen inside the engine.
 
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