One more bite at the 5w20 v. 5w30 debate:

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OK-- Stated in earlier arguments and hinted at it here.

Agree or disagree-- Fewer vi's mean the base oil in a 5w20 is "stouter" than the 5w30.

As far as Wemay's defense of "conventional, (whatever that is with SN+), I've been influenced by the Blackstone guy's statements that he's seen no advantages to running synthetics in the real world (and he personally does whatever meets specs). At ten bucks including a new filter, I can afford to sit in a waiting room every five thousand miles, which with all my post retirement running around-- about 22K a year, comes pretty quickly.
 
Originally Posted by Cujet
Let's look at the problem of premature wear objectively. Manufacturers have produced engines with highly loaded, but relatively low quality, components for well over 100 years now. The classic flat tappet example is the one most commonly cited. Flat tappet engines survive due to sufficient viscosity, very modest oil temperatures, robust additive packages and so on. Chevy V8 timing chain wear is another classic example. Where the aftermarket industry created all sorts of products to mitigate premature failure in anything more than pedestrian use. (oil viscosity and oil change interval are key components here)

Today, nearly all engines use the very same timing chain designs used by Chevy 60 years ago. And the very same lubrication requirements exist. ie, clean oil of sufficient viscosity is important. (Chains last longest with 30 viscosity oil)

Modern engines are still very conventional engines and our great grandfathers would instantly recognize the working parts. Such as 3 ring high compression pistons, cast iron bores, very highly loaded connecting rod bearings, camshafts driven by long chains and camshafts operating flat or roller followers.

It's no surprise that when minor design issues exist, a contaminated thin oil is not up to the task and the result is often premature wear.

Ford's 5.4L is a great example of what happens to an engine when the oil is so thin it escapes out of the oil pump backing plate and under the timing chain tensioners, leading to near complete oil starvation on the Left cylinder head. Is it a bad design, or does the engine design simply require sufficient viscosity to maintain oil pressure? Maybe that depends on whether you want to spend $3K installing aftermarket parts which allow the use of thin oil. I choose 10W-30 M1 High Mileage w/5K OCI's. It's no surprise I'm having no troubles.

It's no surprise that BMW and Hyundai both have similar looking con rod bearings.


[Linked Image]


It makes me wonder, I bet it's a combo of the thinner oil and reduced ZDDP.
27.gif
 
Originally Posted by csandste
OK-- Stated in earlier arguments and hinted at it here.

Agree or disagree-- Fewer vi's mean the base oil in a 5w20 is "stouter" than the 5w30.

As far as Wemay's defense of "conventional, (whatever that is with SN+), I've been influenced by the Blackstone guy's statements that he's seen no advantages to running synthetics in the real world (and he personally does whatever meets specs). At ten bucks including a new filter, I can afford to sit in a waiting room every five thousand miles, which with all my post retirement running around-- about 22K a year, comes pretty quickly.


Not just Blackstone, but our very own DNewton3.
 
Originally Posted by csandste
OK-- Stated in earlier arguments and hinted at it here.

Agree or disagree-- Fewer vi's mean the base oil in a 5w20 is "stouter" than the 5w30.

As far as Wemay's defense of "conventional, (whatever that is with SN+), I've been influenced by the Blackstone guy's statements that he's seen no advantages to running synthetics in the real world (and he personally does whatever meets specs). At ten bucks including a new filter, I can afford to sit in a waiting room every five thousand miles, which with all my post retirement running around-- about 22K a year, comes pretty quickly.

Do you really consider an oil with a lower HTHS viscosity to be "stouter"?
 
Originally Posted by csandste
I know we've been down this road before. Not allowed to change my own oil cause I'm a condo dwelling geezer. I have a two liter, direct injection HyunKia engine. No real indication of fuel dilution and I'm not planning on getting a lab report. I'm using SuperTech syn on a 6K oci in order to get the odometer to a number divisible by 5K. I have a nearby tire store and a fistful of $10 coupons (really slightly more than $15 when they get all the fees and taxes tacked on).

Currently running 5w30 on the ST syn, and have run 5w20 Maxlife and VWB all without incident.

For 5w30-- it's hot in Missouri, notice no mileage change, it's a d.i. engine, it's probably sheared down to 5w20 anyway.

For 5w20-- that's what it says on the oil cap, less viscosity improvers means more oily goodness, .001% more gas mileage will buy me a c-store hotdog annually and I should take it.

I'm going in next week, using my Valvoline Conventional for $10 coupon (hopefully they won't reject me since VWB is shifting over to semi-syn marketing), and realize this debate has gone on before (and checked out those threads). Wide vs. narrow, thick vs. thin are ongoing debates on here. One more time-- just like a set list for a classic rock band full of 70 year olds.


No brainer - 5w30.
Stop at 5K next time. One day your Korean make will thank you.
Stop the house brands also. One day your Korean make will get you safely home, after succumbing to a bad limp.
 
You're either bitogs better troll or an idiot. You have absolutely no proof whatsoever that there's anything wrong with house brands. I have no proof your pantry is full of supertech conventional, but I highly suspect it. I'm sure you're lugging around harbor freight tools in the trunk of your 2004 Hyundai sonata as well.
 
I give you the same advice I give people in the numerous hemi oil threads: keep it full and keep it clean. Although Hyundai engine issues are documented, running around with no oil has a tendency to make your vroom vroom go bang bang. 5/20 or 5/30, keep it FULL and keep it CLEAN. Conventional/syn blend at 5k is plenty sufficient.
 
Red91
I've been called a troll on a couple of MLB messageboards.
I've been called an idiot many times here.
I've been called insane, when I tell folks what their dead relative just said or did something to them.

The proof is not what's on the oil jug label. What the name brands say on their label, is missing from the Supertech jug.

Why don't you go to Walmart - grab one jug each of Mobil-1, Castrol Edge, Valvoline Advanced and Pennzoil Platinum..... then read the entire label & try to pick out what's written on those labels, that's missing from Supertech.

Are you smart enough to do that? Report back here and if you say nothing's missing, then where's the idiot label you just issued me?
In the meantime, you have a new friend at your Personal Profile page. I even like those that throw darts at me.
Go Alabama Crimson Tide, except when Nick Saban plays his former school Michigan State University.
I heard Nick gets his Navigator oil changes done at the dealer.
 
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I see it another way … I'm going to do business with companies that matter on a global scale …
Nothing wrong with ST … Just they don't matter to me …
 
Global is good. Did Trump build a wall that locked Walmart into the USA?
Go Supertech. Make millions in profits.


Now please, lets get back to the 5W20/30 debate. I'm biting my nails, seeking more replies. Good topic of discussion.
 
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Not sure you understand … I buy motor oil from XOM, RDS, CVX, etc … regardless of point of purchase …
 
Originally Posted by 4WD
Not sure you understand … I buy motor oil from XOM, RDS, CVX, etc … regardless of point of purchase …

OK..... are the packages rainproof / salt-proof? Does your imported oil purchases ever get sea-sick and throw up / leak?

Am I starting to understand your buying M.O's better now?
 
My rationale. I will only buy name brand oil and oem filters because yeah,house/generics may be equally good,but I'll splurge a buck to put name brand on/in my $30K machine.
 
Originally Posted by demarpaint
Originally Posted by Cujet
Let's look at the problem of premature wear objectively. Manufacturers have produced engines with highly loaded, but relatively low quality, components for well over 100 years now. The classic flat tappet example is the one most commonly cited. Flat tappet engines survive due to sufficient viscosity, very modest oil temperatures, robust additive packages and so on. Chevy V8 timing chain wear is another classic example. Where the aftermarket industry created all sorts of products to mitigate premature failure in anything more than pedestrian use. (oil viscosity and oil change interval are key components here)

Today, nearly all engines use the very same timing chain designs used by Chevy 60 years ago. And the very same lubrication requirements exist. ie, clean oil of sufficient viscosity is important. (Chains last longest with 30 viscosity oil)

Modern engines are still very conventional engines and our great grandfathers would instantly recognize the working parts. Such as 3 ring high compression pistons, cast iron bores, very highly loaded connecting rod bearings, camshafts driven by long chains and camshafts operating flat or roller followers.

It's no surprise that when minor design issues exist, a contaminated thin oil is not up to the task and the result is often premature wear.

Ford's 5.4L is a great example of what happens to an engine when the oil is so thin it escapes out of the oil pump backing plate and under the timing chain tensioners, leading to near complete oil starvation on the Left cylinder head. Is it a bad design, or does the engine design simply require sufficient viscosity to maintain oil pressure? Maybe that depends on whether you want to spend $3K installing aftermarket parts which allow the use of thin oil. I choose 10W-30 M1 High Mileage w/5K OCI's. It's no surprise I'm having no troubles.

It's no surprise that BMW and Hyundai both have similar looking con rod bearings.


[Linked Image]


It makes me wonder, I bet it's a combo of the thinner oil and reduced ZDDP.
27.gif



So glad Redline has a higher ZDDP ppm. Should be using a stout 5w30 in winter/5w40 in summer.
 
No, nothing I buy is imported … talking about who I prefer to give my business to. Major oil companies …
 
As the OP, I'm still torn on weights. I have no problem with house brands. Always good luck with any WPP oil. Paying advertising overhead is a negative as far as I'm concerned. That being said, the coupon says Valvoline, so Valvoline it's going to be. If the coupon said one of many Valvoline house brands, that would be good too.
 
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Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
My rationale. I will only buy name brand oil and oem filters because yeah,house/generics may be equally good,but I'll splurge a buck to put name brand on/in my $30K machine.


I've become financially secure by never splurging on anything. Grandpa told me the depression was coming back and I've always lived accordingly. If I was going to splurge, it wouldn't be on oil. Beer, sausage and tv sets don't have API ratings.
 
There was a previous reference that I'm unsure of.

My comment was less VI, more oily goodness.

The response was to HTHS. HT means high temperature. I thought that less v.i. meant that the base 5w oil was a bit better because oil trumps viscosity improvers in cold oil when you start it up. I remember similar arguments 25 years ago: 10w30 was better than 5w30 because all that VI ultimately led to shearing. Of course all 5w oils are much better than they were in the early nineties. But .... is there still a bit of truth in that the smaller the difference between the first number and the second number the more stable the whole thing is? Or, does that apply only if there's not a lot of gas from the gdi in the mix?
 
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