2011 Crown Vic LX, 4.6L 112k, 7.5k on Havoline HM 5W20

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This is my friends ride, and I do all the maintenance on it, at least until he moves to Texas in a little over a month.
This oil was in service a little over a year. He does a lot of flying, working out of state, so the car sits a lot.

Code


Iron 26

Chromium 0

Nickel 1

Aluminum 12

Copper 3

Lead 0

Tin 0

Silicon 10

Sodium 5

Potassium 0

Molybdenum 184

Boron 24

Magnesium 12

Calcium 2261

Phosphorous 742

Zinc 876

Fuel
Soot
Water
Visc 8.7cSt@100C

TBN 2.25

Oxid 21

Nitr 12
 
Your friend's 4.6L may have an issue with the timing chain guides wearing. There is elevated Fe and Al; the two signs of wear metals associated with the guides and chain. The Fe is at almost 4ppm/1k miles and the Al is just under 2ppm/1k miles. Those are both about 2x higher than what we'd expect to see for a healthy engine.

These 4.6L engines are generally very low wearing. Here is a link to my UOAs for my two Grand Marquis (2005 and 2007).
As you can see, the Fe and Al on a "wear rate" are much lower, and it does not matter which grade or base stock of oil is used.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/5011812/5
My Fe is typically at or less than 1ppm/1k miles and the Al is so low it's typically just noise. And I run 10k mile OFCIs.

It's not time to panic for your friend's car. This is only one UOA. Most certainly, I'd start doing the UOAs every 5k miles and if you see the wear rates uptick even more, it's time for action! He needs to be aware that it's likely cam chain guide wear. It's not that hard to look at it; pull off the valve covers and then use a bore scope to down down at the chain guides.
 
It's a 120k mile 4.6. Bump it to 5w30 and keep running it until it dies. The repair is likely more than the vehicles worth.

Originally Posted by dnewton3
Your friend's 4.6L may have an issue with the timing chain guides wearing. There is elevated Fe and Al; the two signs of wear metals associated with the guides and chain. The Fe is at almost 4ppm/1k miles and the Al is just under 2ppm/1k miles. Those are both about 2x higher than what we'd expect to see for a healthy engine.

These 4.6L engines are generally very low wearing. Here is a link to my UOAs for my two Grand Marquis (2005 and 2007).
As you can see, the Fe and Al on a "wear rate" are much lower, and it does not matter which grade or base stock of oil is used.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/5011812/5
My Fe is typically at or less than 1ppm/1k miles and the Al is so low it's typically just noise. And I run 10k mile OFCIs.

It's not time to panic for your friend's car. This is only one UOA. Most certainly, I'd start doing the UOAs every 5k miles and if you see the wear rates uptick even more, it's time for action! He needs to be aware that it's likely cam chain guide wear. It's not that hard to look at it; pull off the valve covers and then use a bore scope to down down at the chain guides.
 
I agree with the chain wear just advise and hope for the best. I learned how to really drive on a Police Interceptor Crown Vic. They can't keep up with the new Chargers but they still are fun to drive.
 
Originally Posted by dnewton3
Your friend's 4.6L may have an issue with the timing chain guides wearing. There is elevated Fe and Al; the two signs of wear metals associated with the guides and chain. The Fe is at almost 4ppm/1k miles and the Al is just under 2ppm/1k miles. Those are both about 2x higher than what we'd expect to see for a healthy engine.

These 4.6L engines are generally very low wearing. Here is a link to my UOAs for my two Grand Marquis (2005 and 2007).
As you can see, the Fe and Al on a "wear rate" are much lower, and it does not matter which grade or base stock of oil is used.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/5011812/5
My Fe is typically at or less than 1ppm/1k miles and the Al is so low it's typically just noise. And I run 10k mile OFCIs.

It's not time to panic for your friend's car. This is only one UOA. Most certainly, I'd start doing the UOAs every 5k miles and if you see the wear rates uptick even more, it's time for action! He needs to be aware that it's likely cam chain guide wear. It's not that hard to look at it; pull off the valve covers and then use a bore scope to down down at the chain guides.

Fe was higher last time, 39ppm in 5500 miles, so its wearing better, whatever caused it to have a high Fe. Al was 5ppm that report, so that went up slightly on a ppm/mile basis so idk.
 
Originally Posted by BLND1
It's a 120k mile 4.6. Bump it to 5w30 and keep running it until it dies. The repair is likely more than the vehicles worth.


Yep, when it hits 200,000 miles he can switch to 15W-40
grin2.gif
 
Originally Posted by Colt45ws
Originally Posted by dnewton3
Your friend's 4.6L may have an issue with the timing chain guides wearing. There is elevated Fe and Al; the two signs of wear metals associated with the guides and chain. The Fe is at almost 4ppm/1k miles and the Al is just under 2ppm/1k miles. Those are both about 2x higher than what we'd expect to see for a healthy engine.

These 4.6L engines are generally very low wearing. Here is a link to my UOAs for my two Grand Marquis (2005 and 2007).
As you can see, the Fe and Al on a "wear rate" are much lower, and it does not matter which grade or base stock of oil is used.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/5011812/5
My Fe is typically at or less than 1ppm/1k miles and the Al is so low it's typically just noise. And I run 10k mile OFCIs.

It's not time to panic for your friend's car. This is only one UOA. Most certainly, I'd start doing the UOAs every 5k miles and if you see the wear rates uptick even more, it's time for action! He needs to be aware that it's likely cam chain guide wear. It's not that hard to look at it; pull off the valve covers and then use a bore scope to down down at the chain guides.


Fe was higher last time, 39ppm in 5500 miles, so its wearing better, whatever caused it to have a high Fe. Al was 5ppm that report, so that went up slightly on a ppm/mile basis so idk.


Because the Fe is coming down and the Al is going up, it's probably the cam chain tension-er guides. The steel chain is having it's way with the Al backed guides which have nylon surfaces and are known to crack and shed off large chunks. Once the nylon is gone, the steel sees some abuse, but eventually has it's way with the aluminum backer; hence Fe rises and then falls, and the Al keeps going up. I cannot assure you this is the issue; there are other potential places for problems, but this is by far the most likely cause. And like I said, it can be checked by scoping down the front cover.

I would disagree with the thicker oil recommendation; that isn't going to make this problem go away. And, being a 2011 CVLX with 120k on it, it's probably worth a fair amount presuming it's in decent shape, so the repair at a reputable shop is not out of the question. The parts are not expensive; you can get kits for around $150 or less, depending upon what level of part replacement you want to get into. Your friend may do as he sees fit.
 
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I think I still have his filter. Ill grab it from the shop and cut it. My 02 had this problem and it was very obvious looking at the sparkles in the filter.
 
I have an 04 MGM that I'm running Castrol edge 5w-20 in. Is there anything I can do to prevent or reduce the amount of timing chain/tensioner wear?
 
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Not really. Most Modular V8s will make hundreds of thousands of miles, 400-500k is not uncommon before the tensioners wear out and this problem occurs.
A very low percentage of the population they give out around the 100k mile mark. I know in one case I believe there was a bad run of tensioners around year 2000 and there was a bunch of cases of those going bad but beyond that I havent heard a convincing reasoning for why certain ones fail early while most make it through the life of the vehicle.
My 2002 has over 200k miles and was a ex sheriff cruiser so I suspect it was run hard a LOT so I give that one the benefit of the doubt that it was just it's time.
 
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Originally Posted by Colt45ws
This is my friends ride, and I do all the maintenance on it, at least until he moves to Texas in a little over a month.

By the way, are you going to try to convince him to leave it behind?
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted by Colt45ws
Update: I cut this oil filter. There was no aluminum particulate in it. It was 100% normal.

Just because you cannot see it, does not mean it's not there. UOAs can see material up to about 5um, all else is smaller than that; your eyes cannot see that small so it does not surprise me that you didn't see stuff in the filter. The UOA is telling you something; there's Fe and AL in elevated levels; something is amiss.

I realize it's your friend's ride. He may or may not have the time/money/care to do anything about it, until it's too late.
 
I recently became the caretaker of a 2003 Mercury Grand Marquis with the 4.6L engine and similar miles. I know it is not exactly apples to apples but any thoughts on being able to do a 10,000 mile OCI using Havoline Pro DS synthetic 0w-20 or 5w-20?
 
Originally Posted by Ignatius
I recently became the caretaker of a 2003 Mercury Grand Marquis with the 4.6L engine and similar miles. I know it is not exactly apples to apples but any thoughts on being able to do a 10,000 mile OCI using Havoline Pro DS synthetic 0w-20 or 5w-20?


Not only could a syn do it, but so can cheap house brands ...
Check out my UOAs on our 2005 and 2007 MGMs
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/5012767/5
The RK oil is Rural King; it's $1.79/qrt at normal price, and is API SN lube. And yet it does every bit as well as the Peak synthetic. In fact, not once have I ever had my Fe wear over 1.0ppm/1k miles. All the other wear metals are so low they are noise. I was running 10k mile OCIs back when that was considered heresy by most, and yet today you can see many OEM cars with IOLMs going 10k miles before indicating a change.

A mod-motor in good condition does not need short OCIs or syns. I ran 10k mile OCIs for all the miles. I ran a quality syn and I ran inexpensive house brands. Didn't make either motor flinch one bit.
 
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Originally Posted by dnewton3
Originally Posted by Colt45ws
Update: I cut this oil filter. There was no aluminum particulate in it. It was 100% normal.

Just because you cannot see it, does not mean it's not there. UOAs can see material up to about 5um, all else is smaller than that; your eyes cannot see that small so it does not surprise me that you didn't see stuff in the filter. The UOA is telling you something; there's Fe and AL in elevated levels; something is amiss.

I realize it's your friend's ride. He may or may not have the time/money/care to do anything about it, until it's too late.

When my 02 wore out the tensioners, the oil was very sparkely. It was very visible and obvious. I dont believe this is the problem here, if there even is one.
 
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