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2008 BMW M3, BMW TwinPower Turbo 10W-60, 7136 mi #5158905
07/12/19 05:56 PM
07/12/19 05:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,622
PA
d00df00d Offline OP
d00df00d  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,622
PA
Previous UOA here. Now at 90504 miles on the engine.

Did valve cover gaskets shortly before this drain, so that's probably where the Si is coming from (silicone sealant).

Pb is down as expected for the second oil change after the rod bearing job. Hoping that copper number is just a blip or something (it was 0 last time).

Nice to see fuel dilution down somewhat. Still don't like it at that level, though.

Copying the numbers here because Polaris's reports are kind of annoying to read:


Iron - 11
Chromium - 0
Nickel - 0
Aluminum - 10
Copper - 3
Lead - 1
Tin - 0
Cadmium - 0
Silver - 0
Vanadium - 0

Silicon - 15
Sodium - 5
Potassium - 3

Titanium - 0
Molybdenum - 51
Antimony - 0
Manganese - 0
Lithium - 0
Boron - 49
Magnesium - 27
Calcium - 2503
Barium - 0
Phosphorus - 818
Zinc - 909

Fuel Dilution - 1.3% (GC)
Soot - <0.1% by vol.
Water - <0.1% by vol. (FTIR)

Viscosity @ 100º C - 18.3 cSt
TBN - 4.00
Oxidation - 13
Nitration - 11

Particle Quantifier (PQ) Index - 13


[Linked Image]


2008 BMW M3 Sedan 6MT
Re: 2008 BMW M3, BMW TwinPower Turbo 10W-60, 7136 mi [Re: d00df00d] #5158962
07/12/19 06:59 PM
07/12/19 06:59 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 31,399
NJ
buster Offline
buster  Offline

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 31,399
NJ
Nice results. The maintained its viscosity and TBN is strong. Looks good to me.


2015 Mazda 3 2.0 - Mobil 1 EP 0w20
Re: 2008 BMW M3, BMW TwinPower Turbo 10W-60, 7136 mi [Re: d00df00d] #5159065
07/12/19 09:00 PM
07/12/19 09:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,734
pa
benjy Offline
benjy  Offline

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,734
pa
looking at that bmw oil + bimmer world is not really liking it + as i would do they recommend redlines 10-60 which they said was more protective. from reading ester oils tolerate fuel contamination better than others.

Re: 2008 BMW M3, BMW TwinPower Turbo 10W-60, 7136 mi [Re: d00df00d] #5159074
07/12/19 09:11 PM
07/12/19 09:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,252
US-WA
Dyusik Offline
Dyusik  Offline

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,252
US-WA
I'm with buster, that oil did what it was supposed to, and did it well. However, Redline would be cheaper.


95 Cherokee 190K DELO 10W30, XG8
07 IS250 111K Frankenbrew, WIX 57173
04 YZF-R1 20K Frankenbrew 20w50ish, XG7317
14 RX450h 41k Idemitsu 0w20, WIX 57047
18 RAM 3500 1k VWB 15w40, DBL7349
Re: 2008 BMW M3, BMW TwinPower Turbo 10W-60, 7136 mi [Re: benjy] #5159078
07/12/19 09:19 PM
07/12/19 09:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,622
PA
d00df00d Offline OP
d00df00d  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,622
PA
Originally Posted by buster
Nice results. The maintained its viscosity and TBN is strong. Looks good to me.

Thanks.

Yes, it was good to see the decent TBN. Viscosity @ 100º C is in the SAE 50 range, though. But I'm not too concerned about that TBH.

The Fe and Al numbers do look higher than I normally see in UOAs in these engines. Most of those are with different oils, though. And I guess 10-11 is still pretty low. So I guess I'll just monitor.


Originally Posted by benjy
looking at that bmw oil + bimmer world is not really liking it + as i would do they recommend redlines 10-60 which they said was more protective. from reading ester oils tolerate fuel contamination better than others.

Thanks for the suggestion.

I never stray from OE unless I have a VERY good reason. I'm aware of all the marketing claims and even better-looking UOA results from other oils, but those don't carry much weight in my book. If someone provides real results from engines being run and then torn down and measured, I'll strongly consider that.


2008 BMW M3 Sedan 6MT
Re: 2008 BMW M3, BMW TwinPower Turbo 10W-60, 7136 mi [Re: d00df00d] #5159107
07/12/19 09:57 PM
07/12/19 09:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,184
Yellowbrick Rd(KS)SemiRetired
Marco620 Offline
Marco620  Offline

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,184
Yellowbrick Rd(KS)SemiRetired
Maybe I try and snag a qt of Redline 10w60 next trip to Wichita for a Voa sample.


15' Civic 1.8 i-vtec 254,000 mi Redline 5/0w20, BP transmax cvt fluid & Archoil9100
Tornado Chaser Extraordinar!
Son of a Navy Corpsman. Support vets!


Re: 2008 BMW M3, BMW TwinPower Turbo 10W-60, 7136 mi [Re: d00df00d] #5159341
07/13/19 08:36 AM
07/13/19 08:36 AM
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,839
Down Under
SR5 Offline
SR5  Offline

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,839
Down Under
Looks good to me, ample TBN (4) left, strong zinc (909 ppm) and viscosity at 18.3 cSt (KV100)

The iron wear at 11ppm in 7k miles looks fine to me.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Castrol Edge 10W30 A5/B5 + Wesfil-Cooper Z154
Re: 2008 BMW M3, BMW TwinPower Turbo 10W-60, 7136 mi [Re: d00df00d] #5159402
07/13/19 09:19 AM
07/13/19 09:19 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,673
Lyndhurst NJ
Audios Offline
Audios  Offline

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,673
Lyndhurst NJ
Looks good, and even at the dealer it should be competitively priced against redline. Its usually about 10-11 at the dealer, and Im seeing 14 as list on Redline.


2002 VW Golf TDI-T5 10/30
2007 Mercedes GL320 CDI- M1 0/30 ESP
2005 BMW M3 BMW Twin Power 10/60
2003 BMW M5-Fuchs 5/40
1998 BMW M3/4/5 Fuchs 5/40
Re: 2008 BMW M3, BMW TwinPower Turbo 10W-60, 7136 mi [Re: d00df00d] #5159487
07/13/19 11:11 AM
07/13/19 11:11 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,833
Canada
addyguy Offline
addyguy  Offline

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,833
Canada
For that many miles on the oil in that engine, results look great.


2010 Kia Soul 2U - 2.0L I-4, auto; 144k miles.
Castrol GTX HM 5W-30, STP blue bottle; Fram TG 9688.

2009 Pontiac G5 - 2.2 I-4, auto, 121k miles.
Oil/filter TBD
Re: 2008 BMW M3, BMW TwinPower Turbo 10W-60, 7136 mi [Re: d00df00d] #5159658
07/13/19 03:35 PM
07/13/19 03:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,341
Michigan
A_Harman Offline
A_Harman  Offline

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,341
Michigan
I'm surprised that a 60-weight high performance Euro oil has only ~800ppm of Phosphorous. Is that what it's supposed to have?
Viscosity dropped into the 50 range, maybe helped by the fuel dilution, but the previous UOA had slightly higher viscosity, and had higher fuel dilution.
I vaguely remember a discussion on BITOG about your rod bearings. Did you ever post pictures of the old bearings?


1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck
Re: 2008 BMW M3, BMW TwinPower Turbo 10W-60, 7136 mi [Re: A_Harman] #5159778
07/13/19 07:00 PM
07/13/19 07:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,622
PA
d00df00d Offline OP
d00df00d  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,622
PA
Regarding the price of oil, FCP Euro's lifetime return policy completely changes the calculus. Every oil-and-filter kit after the first one costs me just over $16 no matter what oil I select, because that's all it costs me to ship 9L of oil and a filter back to them (PA to CT with a FedEx account). That makes any oil from any other vendor basically irrelevant. There's no way anything could possibly be better than FCP Euro's options (BMW, Liqui Moly, Rowe) by enough of a margin to justify paying full price.

Within FCP Euro's catalog, I could have gone for Liqui Moly's 10W-60 and saved a bit of money initially. Plenty of positive testimonials for that oil in these engines, mainly in terms of NVH and consumption rates. But I've seen no good evidence that it works as well as or better than the BMW oil in terms of longevity or performance, and the price difference would have become insignificant after a few OCIs.


Originally Posted by A_Harman
I'm surprised that a 60-weight high performance Euro oil has only ~800ppm of Phosphorous. Is that what it's supposed to have?
Viscosity dropped into the 50 range, maybe helped by the fuel dilution, but the previous UOA had slightly higher viscosity, and had higher fuel dilution.
I vaguely remember a discussion on BITOG about your rod bearings. Did you ever post pictures of the old bearings?

Yeah, I don't think it's supposed to have a fat dose of Zn/P -- though 800-900 ppm isn't exactly weak. Probably an as-much-as-necessary-but-no-more kind of thing. If nothing else, this engine does have catalytic converters to worry about, and it can burn oil at a significant rate sometimes.

I wasn't quite sure what to make of the viscosity, either. Agree that fuel dilution explains some but not all of it. Mechanical shear as well, maybe?

Just posted pics of the old bearings in an update on another thread (figured it'd be more appropriate there): https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...an-for-my-bearing-eating-bmw#Post5159777


2008 BMW M3 Sedan 6MT
Re: 2008 BMW M3, BMW TwinPower Turbo 10W-60, 7136 mi [Re: d00df00d] #5160337
07/14/19 10:48 AM
07/14/19 10:48 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,341
Michigan
A_Harman Offline
A_Harman  Offline

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,341
Michigan
Originally Posted by d00df00d
Regarding the price of oil, FCP Euro's lifetime return policy completely changes the calculus. Every oil-and-filter kit after the first one costs me just over $16 no matter what oil I select, because that's all it costs me to ship 9L of oil and a filter back to them (PA to CT with a FedEx account). That makes any oil from any other vendor basically irrelevant. There's no way anything could possibly be better than FCP Euro's options (BMW, Liqui Moly, Rowe) by enough of a margin to justify paying full price.

Within FCP Euro's catalog, I could have gone for Liqui Moly's 10W-60 and saved a bit of money initially. Plenty of positive testimonials for that oil in these engines, mainly in terms of NVH and consumption rates. But I've seen no good evidence that it works as well as or better than the BMW oil in terms of longevity or performance, and the price difference would have become insignificant after a few OCIs.


Originally Posted by A_Harman
I'm surprised that a 60-weight high performance Euro oil has only ~800ppm of Phosphorous. Is that what it's supposed to have?
Viscosity dropped into the 50 range, maybe helped by the fuel dilution, but the previous UOA had slightly higher viscosity, and had higher fuel dilution.
I vaguely remember a discussion on BITOG about your rod bearings. Did you ever post pictures of the old bearings?

Yeah, I don't think it's supposed to have a fat dose of Zn/P -- though 800-900 ppm isn't exactly weak. Probably an as-much-as-necessary-but-no-more kind of thing. If nothing else, this engine does have catalytic converters to worry about, and it can burn oil at a significant rate sometimes.

I wasn't quite sure what to make of the viscosity, either. Agree that fuel dilution explains some but not all of it. Mechanical shear as well, maybe?



I wouldn't be surprised that a 10w60 would shear. But 18.3 cSt is still solidly in the 50 grade, and should be thick enough.


1985 Z51 Corvette track car
2002 Camaro Z28 LS1/6-speed
2001 Dodge Ram 2500 diesel
1972 GMC 1500 shortbed project truck
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