BMW CEO steps away after market loss

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Things have vastly improved.

BMW has some of the top rated vehicles in Consumers Reports for the last two years.
and BEST scoring SUV that they have ever tested,

Hardly a down and out company
Its easy to "Cherry Pick" so called news stories too. All manufacturers have ups and down.

Thing is in todays slanted fake news, its all about getting "clicks" and the public to lazy to check the facts in what they read or even use common sense.
Electric cars? Ummm .. maybe people who pay $50 to to 125,000 for a car could care less, a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of the market yet in may BMW electric sales increased 10% !

Anyway ... Click here ---BMW up, up and away!

BTW = BMW is the largest EXPORTER of vehicles in the USA. All those cars sold in China? Most come from here in the USA
 
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Originally Posted by 4WD
Jeff … There's a huge difference in folks wanting this company to succeed and wanting one. I can easily buy one or two, just don't wanna … Wish them well.
I don't like the vehicles right now and the time spent charging them.
I can wait a while longer until they are mainstream, or have ground clearance, or charge faster, or thousands of them have 200k on the clock, or they put a charger in the sand at 5 mile cut so I can charge up before the water crossing


Clumsy reasons to not buy an electric - the reason I didn't although family loved driving TeslaX was the cost and technology.
I haven't bought into the battery life and sensors that control the vehicle - old school like vehicles to be more mechanical vs. advanced sensors that could fail and leave me stranded.
Now coming to miles and battery packs, Tesla has done wonders and keep surprising nayers.
There are Vegas hotel shuttles with over 1M miles on their Tesla - all that learning's are coming for free for customers.
If one could put 1M miles then as a company and consumer driving it should be fun as well.
All that one could say is the auto companies were napping when Tesla found the niche and moved on.
Its more like Starbucks, they found a space and are a monopoly to serve starting with coffee and now more, you cannot have another Starbucks.
 
Originally Posted by Vern_in_IL
BMW needs to get back to its roots!!

Performance cars, light weight, tech, compact and complex.

Performance= turbos and lightweight chassis, using high quality plastics and carbon
Tech= like headlight washers and high quality headlamp optics, complex and helps you drive.
compact= there should never be a SUV BMW, eliminate them.
Complex,= entire fender removal for water pump change out, "German engineering"

Build them in EU, kill the USA built "german" car! Stickers all over them in German, signifiying the quality and personal touch each inspection point got.

and Drivers that are willing to hog two parking spaces to protect their investment.
smile.gif



And over night they're volume would drop by 50 percent. (I'm embellishing but I think you get the point).

Expansion requires a regression to the mean in terms of customer preferences. It's just the way it is.
 
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
Originally Posted by UncleDave
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
Originally Posted by UncleDave
Lets talk about spacex for a second

Whats better for America?

To keep buying RD-180's from the Russians - or to award an equally earned contract to an American company?

This isn't "subsidy" or "corporate welfare" - its a contract award.


UD


It isn't.

I said it was a combination of corporate welfare and being in the right place at the right time.

Had a space shuttle not exploded and our nation had no backup plan at all, chances are low that he would have a lucrative contract.

Were it not for corporate welfare, both companies would have never made it. Were it not for SpaceX contract, both would never have made it. Both blocks were required to keep them both afloat. Take away either one and either company comes crashing down.

Musk using the SpaceX money to keep Tesla afloat was more a form of in-house corporate welfare. He was both the beggar and the donor.




What corporate welfare did spaceX get that any other company in the space/ vertical market doesn't?

I don't disagree the two kept tesla alive, but thats the prerogative of any private companies owner to do with tech money and profit what he wishes- he was smart enough to build a better mousetrap and won his contracts accordingly.

UD




In this case, he had the right to direct his profits into a company dying despite a government handout, that is still not surviving even after directing SpaceX money at it.

If I were a Vet, and I gave a heart transplant to a stillborn cow after the government paid for a liver transplant, would I have "built a better mousetrap"?

You're trying to beat around the bush about the fact that this man's company burns through cash like a volcano and doesn't make any despite receiving crutch after crutch, but you aren't doing a very good job of it.


It's pointless. He just doesn't get it or it's a "head in the sand" attitude.
 
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Originally Posted by edyvw

So basically, you are buying public transportation?
As for over the air updates, why would I want that?
Again proof that vehicle is made to appeal video game audience.
And Sandy besides working on F35, Tesla, worked on BMW? Audi? Lexus?


public transportation?!??!??!?

Nope - you don't understand packing density. - the fewer components you need the cheaper you can build the car
the fewer board you need the lower the overall system latency.

Over air- really? - so you don't have to go to the dealer for patches or updates to various subsystems - happens all the time these days.

Sandy tears down everyone's cars- he wasn't particularly a fan of tesla to begin with.

What do video games have to do with any of that? you keep repeating this like you kept repeating f35 "control and interface" - off in your own world.



You have provided the board with absolutely no information from any 3rd party to support any of your positions.


UD
 
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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
[/quote]

It's pointless. He just doesn't get it or it's a "head in the sand" attitude.


I think you are commenting about me- but DW's was the last post in your quote.

I do get it - I just don't agree with some of your guys positions and you guys arent swaying me.

but rather than getting snide and making comments like that Im staying engaged.

I can disagree without being disagreeable.

UD
 
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The guy at BMW is loosing his job for a bunch of reasons - one being that Telsa is taking market share. from them and everyone else.

Whether you like telsa or hate them this market fact is not even debatable. The model 3 is the best selling car in the segment period.

Everyone was so busy talking about it never happening they didn't see it coming.



UD
 
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Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by edyvw

So basically, you are buying public transportation?
As for over the air updates, why would I want that?
Again proof that vehicle is made to appeal video game audience.
And Sandy besides working on F35, Tesla, worked on BMW? Audi? Lexus?


Munro and Associates is a huge player in the industry.

https://jalopnik.com/the-fascinating-company-that-tears-cars-apart-to-find-o-1787205420


I'll be surprised if he bothers to click the link.

UD
 
Originally Posted by 4WD
Jeff … There's a huge difference in folks wanting this company to succeed and wanting one. I can easily buy one or two, just don't wanna … Wish them well.
I don't like the vehicles right now and the time spent charging them.
I can wait a while longer until they are mainstream, or have ground clearance, or charge faster, or thousands of them have 200k on the clock, or they put a charger in the sand at 5 mile cut so I can charge up before the water crossing

Fair enough and well said. You are not a naysayer nor do you pull meaningless "what if's" outta the air.

But you might be surprised about the charging.
Once you adjust, you save time by never going to a gas station.
As you have pointed out, Silicon Valley is a mecca for electric cars: sun, solar, expensive gas prices, high tech, greenies.

The Model 3 is an amazing car.
 
Originally Posted by UncleDave
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp


You can't disagree that the other companies were "has-beens" when they took the deals.

Tesla was and is a "never-was" until this very day.

If I can't explain to the difference between investing into something that worked for a long time and then needed fixing vs. something that never got off the ground at all, then I truly don't know what to tell you except some basic classes on finance and investing might be in order.


I would agree they were has beens- but they still took the money and BK

I understand what you mean about something that worked for a long time - and needed fixing vs something that never got off the ground.

I wouldn't characterize tesla as not getting off the ground.



But it hasn't. Apologize for the backhanded remark. I shouldn't post so late.

You and I both know the market cycle of an enduring product. It has "earned it's place" once everyone who wants one has bought one, the fanfare has died down, and the market continues to consume.

It is rare for a product of any type to make it past the first stage. 12 years in, and Tesla has not only failed to reach that point, but doesn't make money either.

The whole "OMGgrowthanddevelopment" thing is nice, but you realize we are getting close to having human beings who can join the military who will have been born when Musk first started promising the profitability of his electric car company? That's kind of nuts.
 
Originally Posted by chrisri
Bmw sold in 2018 820000 units in EU, Tesla sold 29xxx the same year.



Let's say that number is true.


The 29K Tesla sold came out of everyone else sales. the incumbents lost 29K unit sales of premium segment auto to a new company.

If you were to guess the future do you think Telsa will grow or shrink in the EU?

What do you think that number will be for 2019?




UD
 
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp


But it hasn't. Apologize for the backhanded remark. I shouldn't post so late.

You and I both know the market cycle of an enduring product. It has "earned it's place" once everyone who wants one has bought one, the fanfare has died down, and the market continues to consume.

It is rare for a product of any type to make it past the first stage. 12 years in, and Tesla has not only failed to reach that point, but doesn't make money either.

The whole "OMGgrowthanddevelopment" thing is nice, but you realize we are getting close to having human beings who can join the military who will have been born when Musk first started promising the profitability of his electric car company? That's kind of nuts.


I simply don't agree. How many units does a manufacturer need to sell to be considered a player? True they are the smallest of the players.

Demand..for sure a possible problem.
We'll see- Ive been hearing about how demand will sink with the tax rebate, but that has not been the case so far.
I believe their little SUV will be a blockbuster that they should have made that first.

We are 12 years in, and the very latest from the big boys in Europe cant match teslas 12-year-old product. The etrons efficiency is a JOKE as is the Jaguars.


I completely understand profitability. The investor community is more patient than I was.
Although tesla has only been profitable 1 quarter that doenst mean they haven't created tons of profit in the marketplace, from ealry investor that bought in and guys that played the stock right in both directions.

I bought tesla at 50 and sold st 250.
I sold because I believe they will and do have big challenges and possibly be bought out.

UD
 
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Originally Posted by UncleDave
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp


But it hasn't. Apologize for the backhanded remark. I shouldn't post so late.

You and I both know the market cycle of an enduring product. It has "earned it's place" once everyone who wants one has bought one, the fanfare has died down, and the market continues to consume.

It is rare for a product of any type to make it past the first stage. 12 years in, and Tesla has not only failed to reach that point, but doesn't make money either.

The whole "OMGgrowthanddevelopment" thing is nice, but you realize we are getting close to having human beings who can join the military who will have been born when Musk first started promising the profitability of his electric car company? That's kind of nuts.


I simply don't agree. How many units does a manufacturer need to sell to be considered a player? True they are the smallest of the players.

Demand..for sure a possible problem.
We'll see- Ive been hearing about how demand will sink with the tax rebate, but that has not been the case so far.
I believe their little SUV will be a blockbuster that they should have made that first.

We are 12 years in, and the very latest from the big boys in Europe cant match teslas 12-year-old product. The etrons efficiency is a JOKE as is the Jaguars.


I completely understand profitability. The investor community is more patient than I was.
Although tesla has only been profitable 1 quarter that doenst mean they haven't created tons of profit in the marketplace, from ealry investor that bought in and guys that played the stock right in both directions.

I bought tesla at 50 and sold st 250.
I sold because I believe they will and do have big challenges and possibly be bought out.

UD








You're not a player in the market unless you can make money. Other than bragging rights none of the accolades, technology, mean anything without profit. The only reason I can think of as to why investors have held on so long is that they believe EV's are essentially going to mandated by Govt policymakers as more regulations legislate the ICE passenger vehicle out of existence.
 
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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl


You're not a player in the market unless you can make money. Other than bragging rights none of the accolades, technology, mean anything without profit. The only reason I can think of as to why investors have held on so long is that they believe EV's are essentially going to mandated by Govt policymakers as more regulations legislate the ICE passenger vehicle out of existence.



Seems like you are selectively applying timelines to your position of profitability equaling being a player.

The US incumbents failed so badly one Bk'd and the other woudlnt be here without massive unique taxpayer largess, but somehow that doesnt count?

Profit can exist in many places - If you bought in at IPO Telsa has created all kinds of shareholder profit while only ever being a profitable once so far.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl



You're not a player in the market unless you can make money. Other than bragging rights none of the accolades, technology, mean anything without profit. The only reason I can think of as to why investors have held on so long is that they believe EV's are essentially going to mandated by Govt policymakers as more regulations legislate the ICE passenger vehicle out of existence.


That may be your opinion (and others) but is simply not true; Tesla is certainly a player. Others are struggling to catch up.
It is thought that GM loses $$ on Volts and Bolts.

Mass producing a new product like a Tesla, with no prior car manufacturing experience of any kind, is a huge undertaking.
Musk has stated that these early cars are a learning ground for future electric cars for the masses. No small task.

Much of Tesla's software is open source; he offers it to other companies to help in their development.
As far as investors go, they are in the business of making money. They believe the stock is a good investment.
Investment and a company's financials are 2 different things.

Will he make it? Time will tell, but he is betting his fortune on it.
Musk has made tons of blunders, both in the car's manufacturing and his statements.
But he ain't done yet and so far he is beating all the big guys.
 
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