https://classicmotorsports.com/articles/ask-oil-expert-industry-specialists-set-record-str/
Many experts were asked and some good insight.
Many experts were asked and some good insight.
Another great oil article!!!
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There also were some dead wrong answers there, particularly about HDEOs. Notably, Liqui Moly's "application specialist" needs to open a lubrication handbook.
"Diesel-specific engine oils are designed to help remove the soot and other byproducts of running diesel fuel-a greater amount than gasoline produces. Therefore, diesel oils usually contain a higher concentration of certain detergents to clean the internals better. Usually this is a good thing. However, the detergents can be so effective that they remove part of the oil film from the cylinder walls, and that can mean quicker wear."
Thought this was interesting and has me rethinking using some HDEO 15w40 in my '82 733i with the vaunted M30 engine. Really do think that 20w50 is a bit thick these days so I might settle for a 10w40, but idk...haven't made a decision yet.
Thought this was interesting and has me rethinking using some HDEO 15w40 in my '82 733i with the vaunted M30 engine. Really do think that 20w50 is a bit thick these days so I might settle for a 10w40, but idk...haven't made a decision yet.
I think that quote you posted from there was another hogwash from the article. What would they say about A3/B4 oils, which actually have higher "detergent" levels than an E7, E9 type HDEO?
I don't think it's entirely hogwash, but I think the reason he stated is hogwash. In the racing industry, there's a gradual shift away from HDEO due to frothing and anti-wear concerns. I know with our engines, we saw a 320% increase in iron wear (196 ppm vs 47 ppm) with HDEO compared to the specific racing oil we are now using. That's rather substantial. The engines were torn down after discovering this (2 seasons with HDEO) and 5 of the 16 cam lobes failed micrometer testing with >200 microns loss in lobe height. These engines are solid roller lifter, not flat tappet, although they are approaching 1,000 lbs spring pressure at max lift, over .900" lift, and turning 9500 rpm. A scenario way outside of any API testing parameter.
For a classic car with a stock rebuilt flat tappet engine making <300 hp and <300 lbs spring pressure, even SuperTech conventional SN rated 10w-30 would be sufficient.
For a classic car with a stock rebuilt flat tappet engine making <300 hp and <300 lbs spring pressure, even SuperTech conventional SN rated 10w-30 would be sufficient.
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Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
I don't think it's entirely hogwash, but I think the reason he stated is hogwash. In the racing industry, there's a gradual shift away from HDEO due to frothing and anti-wear concerns. I know with our engines, we saw a 320% increase in iron wear (196 ppm vs 47 ppm) with HDEO compared to the specific racing oil we are now using. That's rather substantial. The engines were torn down after discovering this (2 seasons with HDEO) and 5 of the 16 cam lobes failed micrometer testing with >200 microns loss in lobe height. These engines are solid roller lifter, not flat tappet, although they are approaching 1,000 lbs spring pressure at max lift, over .900" lift, and turning 9500 rpm. A scenario way outside of any API testing parameter.
For a classic car with a stock rebuilt flat tappet engine making div>
Could you tell us the brand of the HDEO? Just curious, not that the results would be different with a different brand, it is a case of the HDEO not being the best oil in the application. We are buying HDEO for our tractors on the farm. I started using them in some of our gas engines as well, OPE and older SUV and truck. It seems to be working well.
I don't think it's entirely hogwash, but I think the reason he stated is hogwash. In the racing industry, there's a gradual shift away from HDEO due to frothing and anti-wear concerns. I know with our engines, we saw a 320% increase in iron wear (196 ppm vs 47 ppm) with HDEO compared to the specific racing oil we are now using. That's rather substantial. The engines were torn down after discovering this (2 seasons with HDEO) and 5 of the 16 cam lobes failed micrometer testing with >200 microns loss in lobe height. These engines are solid roller lifter, not flat tappet, although they are approaching 1,000 lbs spring pressure at max lift, over .900" lift, and turning 9500 rpm. A scenario way outside of any API testing parameter.
For a classic car with a stock rebuilt flat tappet engine making div>
Could you tell us the brand of the HDEO? Just curious, not that the results would be different with a different brand, it is a case of the HDEO not being the best oil in the application. We are buying HDEO for our tractors on the farm. I started using them in some of our gas engines as well, OPE and older SUV and truck. It seems to be working well.
Originally Posted by njohnson
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
I don't think it's entirely hogwash, but I think the reason he stated is hogwash. In the racing industry, there's a gradual shift away from HDEO due to frothing and anti-wear concerns. I know with our engines, we saw a 320% increase in iron wear (196 ppm vs 47 ppm) with HDEO compared to the specific racing oil we are now using. That's rather substantial. The engines were torn down after discovering this (2 seasons with HDEO) and 5 of the 16 cam lobes failed micrometer testing with >200 microns loss in lobe height. These engines are solid roller lifter, not flat tappet, although they are approaching 1,000 lbs spring pressure at max lift, over .900" lift, and turning 9500 rpm. A scenario way outside of any API testing parameter.
For a classic car with a stock rebuilt flat tappet engine making div>
Could you tell us the brand of the HDEO? Just curious, not that the results would be different with a different brand, it is a case of the HDEO not being the best oil in the application. We are buying HDEO for our tractors on the farm. I started using them in some of our gas engines as well, OPE and older SUV and truck. It seems to be working well.
Same result with Rotella T4 15w-40 and Delvac 15w-40. It's just not the best oil for the application. A lot of people in the classic car and racing circle started using it for the ZDDP content, but are now learning there's much more to oil than just ZDDP.
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
I don't think it's entirely hogwash, but I think the reason he stated is hogwash. In the racing industry, there's a gradual shift away from HDEO due to frothing and anti-wear concerns. I know with our engines, we saw a 320% increase in iron wear (196 ppm vs 47 ppm) with HDEO compared to the specific racing oil we are now using. That's rather substantial. The engines were torn down after discovering this (2 seasons with HDEO) and 5 of the 16 cam lobes failed micrometer testing with >200 microns loss in lobe height. These engines are solid roller lifter, not flat tappet, although they are approaching 1,000 lbs spring pressure at max lift, over .900" lift, and turning 9500 rpm. A scenario way outside of any API testing parameter.
For a classic car with a stock rebuilt flat tappet engine making div>
Could you tell us the brand of the HDEO? Just curious, not that the results would be different with a different brand, it is a case of the HDEO not being the best oil in the application. We are buying HDEO for our tractors on the farm. I started using them in some of our gas engines as well, OPE and older SUV and truck. It seems to be working well.
Same result with Rotella T4 15w-40 and Delvac 15w-40. It's just not the best oil for the application. A lot of people in the classic car and racing circle started using it for the ZDDP content, but are now learning there's much more to oil than just ZDDP.
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Originally Posted by njohnson
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
I don't think it's entirely hogwash, but I think the reason he stated is hogwash. In the racing industry, there's a gradual shift away from HDEO due to frothing and anti-wear concerns. I know with our engines, we saw a 320% increase in iron wear (196 ppm vs 47 ppm) with HDEO compared to the specific racing oil we are now using. That's rather substantial. The engines were torn down after discovering this (2 seasons with HDEO) and 5 of the 16 cam lobes failed micrometer testing with >200 microns loss in lobe height. These engines are solid roller lifter, not flat tappet, although they are approaching 1,000 lbs spring pressure at max lift, over .900" lift, and turning 9500 rpm. A scenario way outside of any API testing parameter.
For a classic car with a stock rebuilt flat tappet engine making div>
Could you tell us the brand of the HDEO? Just curious, not that the results would be different with a different brand, it is a case of the HDEO not being the best oil in the application. We are buying HDEO for our tractors on the farm. I started using them in some of our gas engines as well, OPE and older SUV and truck. It seems to be working well.
Same result with Rotella T4 15w-40 and Delvac 15w-40. It's just not the best oil for the application. A lot of people in the classic car and racing circle started using it for the ZDDP content, but are now learning there's much more to oil than just ZDDP.
What kind of racing oil did y'all switch to? Would something like Valvoline 20w50 compare to it?
Originally Posted by njohnson
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
I don't think it's entirely hogwash, but I think the reason he stated is hogwash. In the racing industry, there's a gradual shift away from HDEO due to frothing and anti-wear concerns. I know with our engines, we saw a 320% increase in iron wear (196 ppm vs 47 ppm) with HDEO compared to the specific racing oil we are now using. That's rather substantial. The engines were torn down after discovering this (2 seasons with HDEO) and 5 of the 16 cam lobes failed micrometer testing with >200 microns loss in lobe height. These engines are solid roller lifter, not flat tappet, although they are approaching 1,000 lbs spring pressure at max lift, over .900" lift, and turning 9500 rpm. A scenario way outside of any API testing parameter.
For a classic car with a stock rebuilt flat tappet engine making div>
Could you tell us the brand of the HDEO? Just curious, not that the results would be different with a different brand, it is a case of the HDEO not being the best oil in the application. We are buying HDEO for our tractors on the farm. I started using them in some of our gas engines as well, OPE and older SUV and truck. It seems to be working well.
Same result with Rotella T4 15w-40 and Delvac 15w-40. It's just not the best oil for the application. A lot of people in the classic car and racing circle started using it for the ZDDP content, but are now learning there's much more to oil than just ZDDP.
What kind of racing oil did y'all switch to? Would something like Valvoline 20w50 compare to it?
Originally Posted by TXCarGeek
What kind of racing oil did y'all switch to? Would something like Valvoline 20w50 compare to it?
It's a one-off cocktail in 5w-30 with group IV and V base oils.
What kind of racing oil did y'all switch to? Would something like Valvoline 20w50 compare to it?
It's a one-off cocktail in 5w-30 with group IV and V base oils.
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
I don't think it's entirely hogwash, but I think the reason he stated is hogwash. In the racing industry, there's a gradual shift away from HDEO due to frothing and anti-wear concerns.
Generally speaking, HDEO isn't racing oil and shouldn't be used as a replacement for it. I wouldn't even use it for a break in lube for a high spring pressure engine.
Where the hogwash is in the article are the statements about CK-4 phosphorus levels, which are simply wrong. As I mentioned, he needs to open up a lubricant handbook. He's wrong on a couple fronts in that. The notion of cylinder lubrication suffering because of detergent levels is also just silly. He had better warn people more strongly about A3/B4 oils, then. By the logic from the article, only ACEA C type or A5/B5 oils should be considered in gasoline engines. Complaining about detergent levels when the SA limits are significantly different is just out there.
I don't think it's entirely hogwash, but I think the reason he stated is hogwash. In the racing industry, there's a gradual shift away from HDEO due to frothing and anti-wear concerns.
Generally speaking, HDEO isn't racing oil and shouldn't be used as a replacement for it. I wouldn't even use it for a break in lube for a high spring pressure engine.
Where the hogwash is in the article are the statements about CK-4 phosphorus levels, which are simply wrong. As I mentioned, he needs to open up a lubricant handbook. He's wrong on a couple fronts in that. The notion of cylinder lubrication suffering because of detergent levels is also just silly. He had better warn people more strongly about A3/B4 oils, then. By the logic from the article, only ACEA C type or A5/B5 oils should be considered in gasoline engines. Complaining about detergent levels when the SA limits are significantly different is just out there.
Triple_Se7en
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Thanks for sharing that article Marco.
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