Here in TN we have stores called Weigel's. They actually sell true 87 octane which in my Patriot nets me about 28 mpg vs 26 mpg for ethanol based 87. My question is this: is a true 87 octane gas better than say a top tier 87 with 10% ethanol?
Generic non ethanol 87 question
- Thread starter MileHigh18
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Maybe, depending on your car. I don't stray from Top Tier if I can avoid it.
For cars used normally (not in storage) E10 is not bad at all. Deals with any water in gas tank. We use to add dry gas years ago. Its engines that are used infrequently that have the issue. OPE, boats, cars in storage.
In NY the stations that sell E0 sell only high test E0, not 87.
In NY the stations that sell E0 sell only high test E0, not 87.
Weigel's also sells 92 octane non ethanol but I don't use that in my little Patriot. I just figured true gas would be better than the ethanol stuff. I definitely get better mileage, and I run techron every 3k miles.
The BTU content of the gasoline is what determines you fuel economy. This does vary a few percent just because of the process and the crude source. If you take 2 base fuels with the same BTU content, and add 10% alcohol to one so it now has the same octane, it will have about 3% less BTU so if you normally get 33 MPG you would then get 32 all other things being equal. The all other things begin equal never happens in the real world.
Basically European and old stuff, and my lawn and garden equipment get no alcohol simply because they are not fully compatible. Otherwise, it gets whatever. My motorcycle is BMW and they simply do much better on no alcohol. My push mower is a 1979 lawnboy, and it must have no alcohol or the cork float varnish fails, the plastic swells etc. When I had my collector car, it got only no alcohol, carburetors can be picky.
So basically there are so many variables and if you have late model, use what you want. As far a variations between stations, just a half Gallon difference on fill up can make that much mileage difference. And, IMHO, not all stations are honest. Otherwise how can I put 18 gallons in a 18 gallon boat tank that had at least a couple of gallons left in it. I do not use that station anymore, and that has never happened again.
Rod
Basically European and old stuff, and my lawn and garden equipment get no alcohol simply because they are not fully compatible. Otherwise, it gets whatever. My motorcycle is BMW and they simply do much better on no alcohol. My push mower is a 1979 lawnboy, and it must have no alcohol or the cork float varnish fails, the plastic swells etc. When I had my collector car, it got only no alcohol, carburetors can be picky.
So basically there are so many variables and if you have late model, use what you want. As far a variations between stations, just a half Gallon difference on fill up can make that much mileage difference. And, IMHO, not all stations are honest. Otherwise how can I put 18 gallons in a 18 gallon boat tank that had at least a couple of gallons left in it. I do not use that station anymore, and that has never happened again.
Rod
Originally Posted by MileHigh18
Weigel's also sells 92 octane non ethanol but I don't use that in my little Patriot. I just figured true gas would be better than the ethanol stuff. I definitely get better mileage, and I run techron every 3k miles.
I think Techron that often is overkill. Every oil change would be my call.
Nice that you can get ethanol free 87.
Weigel's also sells 92 octane non ethanol but I don't use that in my little Patriot. I just figured true gas would be better than the ethanol stuff. I definitely get better mileage, and I run techron every 3k miles.
I think Techron that often is overkill. Every oil change would be my call.
Nice that you can get ethanol free 87.
The old saying is you have to get E85 20% cheaper than E10 to break even because it will get 20% (MOL) worse gas mileage. If you can do the math to compare how much better gas mileage E0 gets over E10, 28 over 26 probably does seem better that you would expect but just be happy about it. Is it the same price as nearby stations with E10?
Originally Posted by atikovi
The old saying is you have to get E85 20% cheaper than E10 to break even because it will get 20% (MOL) worse gas mileage. If you can do the math to compare how much better gas mileage E0 gets over E10, 28 over 26 probably does seem better that you would expect but just be happy about it. Is it the same price as nearby stations with E10?
E0 is $2.87 a gallon and E10 is around $2.45 a gallon.
The old saying is you have to get E85 20% cheaper than E10 to break even because it will get 20% (MOL) worse gas mileage. If you can do the math to compare how much better gas mileage E0 gets over E10, 28 over 26 probably does seem better that you would expect but just be happy about it. Is it the same price as nearby stations with E10?
E0 is $2.87 a gallon and E10 is around $2.45 a gallon.
Simple answer for any modern car with a modern emissions system - no.
There might be certain advantages with regards to average energy content. Even then, the energy content of the base gasoline can vary.
E10 might actually help with performance. It's giving additional oxygen and I've heard that it can help with cooling, but at the expense of energy content.
There might be certain advantages with regards to average energy content. Even then, the energy content of the base gasoline can vary.
E10 might actually help with performance. It's giving additional oxygen and I've heard that it can help with cooling, but at the expense of energy content.
Originally Posted by MileHigh18
E0 is $2.87 a gallon and E10 is around $2.45 a gallon.
I wouldn't pay 17% more to get 8% better mileage.
E0 is $2.87 a gallon and E10 is around $2.45 a gallon.
I wouldn't pay 17% more to get 8% better mileage.
Originally Posted by atikovi
Originally Posted by MileHigh18
E0 is $2.87 a gallon and E10 is around $2.45 a gallon.
I wouldn't pay 17% more to get 8% better mileage.
Yep. I agree. I make fuel selections on which fuel offers the best value on a cost per mile basis. For the last 2 years, E85 was $.80 to $1 less than E10 consistently. So I used E85. That no longer is the case, so now I use E15. 5 to 10 cents cheaper than E10 and pretty close on MPG. E20, E30, and E50 never seem to have favorable enough pricing to E10. I do get E0 occasionally for my OPE, Mowers, etc. Matter of fact, I need to run into town this weekend and fill an oil drum with E0 that I use for the that purpose. I haven't used E0 in a vehicle for probably 4 decades. Never saw a need to spend a substantially more for limited gain.
One of same reasons I don't buy diesel versions of my personal vehicles. Don't really have a need for it and it is not cost effective. My commercial stuff is another matter.
Originally Posted by MileHigh18
E0 is $2.87 a gallon and E10 is around $2.45 a gallon.
I wouldn't pay 17% more to get 8% better mileage.
Yep. I agree. I make fuel selections on which fuel offers the best value on a cost per mile basis. For the last 2 years, E85 was $.80 to $1 less than E10 consistently. So I used E85. That no longer is the case, so now I use E15. 5 to 10 cents cheaper than E10 and pretty close on MPG. E20, E30, and E50 never seem to have favorable enough pricing to E10. I do get E0 occasionally for my OPE, Mowers, etc. Matter of fact, I need to run into town this weekend and fill an oil drum with E0 that I use for the that purpose. I haven't used E0 in a vehicle for probably 4 decades. Never saw a need to spend a substantially more for limited gain.
One of same reasons I don't buy diesel versions of my personal vehicles. Don't really have a need for it and it is not cost effective. My commercial stuff is another matter.
Originally Posted by atikovi
The old saying is you have to get E85 20% cheaper than E10 to break even because it will get 20% (MOL) worse gas mileage. If you can do the math to compare how much better gas mileage E0 gets over E10, 28 over 26 probably does seem better that you would expect but just be happy about it. Is it the same price as nearby stations with E10?
Yeah but more often E-10 us really E-6 to E-7 and E-85 is around E-65 so when people post 20% difference in fuel economy with E-10 vs E-0 it's not the fuel. It's either driving conditions and or the poster fudging logs, math, and or improper pump readouts because the BTU difference isn't there.
The old saying is you have to get E85 20% cheaper than E10 to break even because it will get 20% (MOL) worse gas mileage. If you can do the math to compare how much better gas mileage E0 gets over E10, 28 over 26 probably does seem better that you would expect but just be happy about it. Is it the same price as nearby stations with E10?
Yeah but more often E-10 us really E-6 to E-7 and E-85 is around E-65 so when people post 20% difference in fuel economy with E-10 vs E-0 it's not the fuel. It's either driving conditions and or the poster fudging logs, math, and or improper pump readouts because the BTU difference isn't there.
Originally Posted by dave1251
atikovi said:
Originally Posted by MileHigh18
Here in TN we have stores called Weigel's. They actually sell true 87 octane which in my Patriot nets me about 28 mpg vs 26 mpg for ethanol based 87. My question is this: is a true 87 octane gas better than say a top tier 87 with 10% ethanol?
The answer depends what you mean by "better." As you have seen, pure gas gives better fuel economy than E10. And top tier fuels typically clean better and burn cleaner than other brands.
Given a choice between non top-tier 87 E0 vs top tier E10 87, I would choose the top tier and take a slight MPG hit.
Here in TN we have stores called Weigel's. They actually sell true 87 octane which in my Patriot nets me about 28 mpg vs 26 mpg for ethanol based 87. My question is this: is a true 87 octane gas better than say a top tier 87 with 10% ethanol?
The answer depends what you mean by "better." As you have seen, pure gas gives better fuel economy than E10. And top tier fuels typically clean better and burn cleaner than other brands.
Given a choice between non top-tier 87 E0 vs top tier E10 87, I would choose the top tier and take a slight MPG hit.
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