Mercon V vs Mercon

[Dupree]

so I know this is old but I am not finding this topic covered with my specific questions answered, Ford used to say never to run Mercon V in a Mercon equipped transmission then one day poof it was backward compatible which is against the tsb from before.
With the trend towards lighter fluids, I had always assumed Mercon v went to a lighter base stock ie I higher grade as well. But searching on the various Mercon/dexron II fluids they seem to hover around 7.1-7.3 cst @ 100 and 34-35 cst@40. However, I cannot find a ford pds on the original Mercon M2C185-A.
The Mercon V 7.5cst@100 and 33.2@40, so it would seem the opposite that it's indeed heavier?
So does anyone have any hard data comparing the two and maybe some actual pds from the actual Motorcraft Mercon? What are the differences between these two besides viscosity?

 

[ET16]

What's your application?

 

[Dupree]

E4OD, there are many using the Mercon V but also there are many complaints about shifting problems and stuttering. I was planning on something like Amsoil signature series ATF 7.5 cst@100, 38.5 cst@40 or Amsoil torque drive 7.6 cst@100, 37.1 cst@40. Those, however, come out more along the lines of the Mercon V. So is it the thicker fluid giving belly aches. Another consideration is Chevron MD3 7.0 cst@100, 34.1@40. The question is are these following the viscosity requirements of original Mercon or is it whatever base stocks keep it competitive and so long as it's near 20 weight it's ok...Most people would put whatever in and not worry but I'm on an oil forum for a reason and want to dissect it down to what cst Mercon circa 1987 formula was originally blended to be, is it accurate to what is being labeled now for Mercon, technically all three of those carry the Mercon approved writing on the bottle.

 

[Wagonmaster261]

Mercon was pretty similar to Dexron, but Ford changed the formula. Mercon-Dexron is no longer a valid spec, being superseded. Use the Mercon V, or Mobil 1 ATF. Both are good fluids. Mercon V has other additives that seem to enable much longer life than the old stuff. Factory fills are lasting 100k miles or more in trucks.

Upgrading your 1990 E4OD to the newer parts 1995-up would probably be better. Many improvements were made.

 

[ka9mnx]

You are correct. When Ford came out with Mercon V it was not to be used in a Mercon application. When Ford decided to not license Mercon they made a formulation change to Mercon V so it was backward compatible. No hard data on any of this but I'm using Mercon V in my '93 E4OD and '00 4Runner (which called for Dexron III) and no problems. I think Mercon was a semi-syn and Mercon V is, basically, a synthetic.

 

[ford46guy]

Main difference is better/enhanced friction modifiers.That is why Mercon V is actually NOT recommended for clutch type transfer cases.

 

[Gebo]

I have recently spent hours researching and talking with transmission "experts." Professor John Kelly at Weber State can answer your question. He's an awesome guy. He has videos of the history of various ATF's. I have linked the Ford video for you.

https://youtu.be/tWvbuqsWrCE

 

[Dupree]

thanks, that's an interesting video, but the fact is there is still a large viscosity difference between the two, I can't help but think its a use Mercon v because we don't want to make Mercon anymore kind of recommendation from ford.

 

[DoubleNickels]

You could probably still find ATF on store shelves which are labeled as Dex/Merc. Mostly multi-vehicle ATF, and nothing is specifically Mercon anymore. But with each one of those formulations, you would have to decide for yourself if it is what you want to use.

 

[T-Stick]

So I have the Ford 4R100 in a 7.3 powerstroke. I don't think it works best on a lighter viscosity fluid either. Use a Mercon of your choice such as Chevron MD3, Valvoline/Castrol Dex/Merc etc. Then include Redline D4 in a 1/3 ratio mix. Redline will help get you some modern friction modifiers and the viscosity will be heavy at the factory spec. This is hands down the best formula that I have used in the 4R100 after playing with some different brews. Mercon V will tend to cause more slippage over time. Straight Mercon would get me some delayed hang shifts while the 1/3 ratio addition of Redline D4 to the Mercon eliminated those, and now I get a firm shift at the right rpm.

 

[69GTX]

I used old Mercon in my 1997 Lincoln Continental AX4N for 230K+ miles. Never an issue. Smooth as silk. The engine died first. The transmission never even shuddered once on 25K OCI's of mostly highway driving. It wasn't until after I sold that car that I found out it should have been getting Mercon V all along....or at least it was back specced to Mercon V in 2001. My 2002 Lincoln lived on Mercon V for 83K miles until the car was totaled in an accident. The transmission was silky smooth too. My current 2001 Lincoln is using Mercon V and also silky smooth transmission. That's 365K total miles on 3 cars and never the slightest issue with the transmission. So the earlier comment about shudder complaints with Mercon V (or even Mercon) is a new one to me.

In my reading Mercon is closer to a conventional fluid. Mercon V is semi-synthetic or blend. Their slight difference in viscosity is negligible imo. The ad pack in Mercon V is probably stouter with more anti-wear chemicals to prolong life. I used both Mercon in my first Mercon V vehicle and got exceptional life out of a Taurus V6 designed AX4N known to have short lives when placed the more powerful and heavier V8 Continentals. It would appear that changing the fluid frequently is more important than Mercon vs. Mercon V. With a Viscosity of 7.5 cSt @100C I wouldn't want to use a Dex 6 or LV ATF which has a 5.5-6.0 cSt viscosity. The Mercon shears about 2X as fast as the Mercon V. So on that alone, change the Mercon more often.

 

[ford46guy]

I think the continental AX4Ns were beefeed up. They had a special part number. They also have a massive trans cooler. A local trans shop said to put a pan with a plug and change every 30k. Another cooler can't hurt either, and they last a very long time according to him. Many people leave fluid in 100K miles in a taurus with a small cooler only to die in short order.

 

[userfriendly]

New to me, 2014 Escape 4X4, 2L turbo with 42,000 miles. Should I use the new LV ATFs that also are Dexron VI approved?

I was thinking either Havoline full synthetic multi vehicle or Petro-Canada Duradrive LV. Both near KV100C 6.0

 

[Jetsfan421]

Originally Posted by userfriendly
New to me, 2014 Escape 4X4, 2L turbo with 42,000 miles. Should I use the new LV ATFs that also are Dexron VI approved?

I was thinking either Havoline full synthetic multi vehicle or Petro-Canada Duradrive LV. Both near KV100C 6.0

Go with either Dex VI or Merc LV. Those fluids are interchangeable. Also maxlife would be a good choice because of it's availability, price, and physical properties being close to Dex VI.

 

[userfriendly]

Thanks Jetsfan, I have to go up to the Chevron dealer for a drum of locomotive 20W40. I'll grab some LV, a couple of pails of 15W40 LE and maybe some 15W30 if they carry it.

 

[R1jake]

Dupree I'd love to hear what you ended up deciding with your E4OD and how it worked ?? I have my 94 Ford E150 5.8L E4OD 31,000 original miles. I picked it up a couple years ago with only 18,000 miles on it garage kept as well. So I love this van and am now wanting what's best for the transmission which was done once when brought out of its long period of sitting back in 2016. I have no idea what the ford dealership put in it but want to get the best available for it. I would assume they used Motocraft mercon V.
I've researched this quiet a bit and my research is what has kept me from doing the service up to this point due to not knowing what's best to put in.

 

[R1jake]

T stick , Mercon of your choice? Are you meaning mercon v of your choice?? With the redline?

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by T-Stick
So I have the Ford 4R100 in a 7.3 powerstroke. I don't think it works best on a lighter viscosity fluid either. Use a Mercon of your choice such as Chevron MD3, Valvoline/Castrol Dex/Merc etc. Then include Redline D4 in a 1/3 ratio mix. Redline will help get you some modern friction modifiers and the viscosity will be heavy at the factory spec. This is hands down the best formula that I have used in the 4R100 after playing with some different brews. Mercon V will tend to cause more slippage over time. Straight Mercon would get me some delayed hang shifts while the 1/3 ratio addition of Redline D4 to the Mercon eliminated those, and now I get a firm shift at the right rpm.



MERCON is not a heavy fluid after use it's thinner than MERCON LV.

MERCON
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=706440

After 13000 miles it's CST is 43.


The longer in use it will drop further

MERCON LV


https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...tthread/Board/47/main/289915/type/thread

After 14000 miles it's CST is 46.

After use it will retain its grade remarkably better than DEXRON/MERCON III.


OP if you want a "thicker" fluid virtually everything on the self is thicker than MERCON.

 

[R1jake]

Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by T-Stick
So I have the Ford 4R100 in a 7.3 powerstroke. I don't think it works best on a lighter viscosity fluid either. Use a Mercon of your choice such as Chevron MD3, Valvoline/Castrol Dex/Merc etc. Then include Redline D4 in a 1/3 ratio mix. Redline will help get you some modern friction modifiers and the viscosity will be heavy at the factory spec. This is hands down the best formula that I have used in the 4R100 after playing with some different brews. Mercon V will tend to cause more slippage over time. Straight Mercon would get me some delayed hang shifts while the 1/3 ratio addition of Redline D4 to the Mercon eliminated those, and now I get a firm shift at the right rpm.



MERCON is not a heavy fluid after use it's thinner than MERCON LV.

MERCON
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=706440

After 13000 miles it's CST is 43.


The longer in use it will drop further

MERCON LV


https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...tthread/Board/47/main/289915/type/thread

After 14000 miles it's CST is 46.

After use it will retain its grade remarkably better than DEXRON/MERCON III.


OP if you want a "thicker" fluid virtually everything on the self is thicker than MERCON.




This is the first I've heard mercon LV, for the E4OD ford specified regular mercon and said not to use anything else then when mercon was dropped they then said to use mercon V which was originally not ok. This all has me very confused what to get. Now hearing mercon LV I've not heard anyone say to use this in the E4OD??
I am totally lost on what is best to use for my transmission and the more I research it the more lost I get. Lol what's the difference between mercon V and mercon LV ??
I do know regular mercon is what was called for for the E4OD so I would love to be able to get it but it's no longer Available. Thanks In advance for any advice.

 

[Snagglefoot]

You mention that Mercon was no longer available but really, the substitute is the Dex/Merc you mentioned earlier. Everyone makes it.