"O" Ring chain losing seals?

[Smoky14]

My chain is spitting out the seals. I had a DID's best spit them out and DID replaced the chain. It promptly, after 4K miles later, spit out the seals. Changed to RK chain and after 9K miles it is spitting out the seals again. RK is going to give me half off on a replacement.
Do any of you gentlemen have a similar experience or can you theorize why my bike seems to eat chain seals. I've aligned the chain and bike to within .010 and keep it clean and lubed. The Bandit does hotter than most bikes which may have an efffect.
I'm lost, help.
Smoky

 

[ragtoplvr]

What are you using for lubricant. Is it compatible with seals? Many oils make seals swell and that makes them soft..

Rod

 

[Rand]

What kind of cleaner and lube?

 

[Bonz]

Ditto, what are you using to clean and wipe the chain down with, what are you using as your lubricant?

 

[Smoky14]

I'm using PJ1 blue label chain lube. I use Maxima chain cleaner. I'm open to try any lube which doesn't conflict with RK chain guides, they specifically say NO WMD40 or kerosene on their chains. I think I'll drop one of their seals into kero just to see what will happen.
Smoky

 

[02SE]

How often are you lubing the chain? How much slack are you running? It almost sounds like it might be too tight, and is getting way too hot. I run my chains on the loose side of the tolerance. I can't recall ever having an O-ring chain that lost the O-rings. But I lube them every couple hundred miles. If I'm at home I use WD-40 on a rag for a light wipe down before lubing. If it's really dirty and has been awhile since a real cleaning, I'll use kerosene. For lube I like the Honda labeled HP chain lube in the white/red can.

I've used most of the chain brands available over the years. DID, RK, EK, Tsubaki, Regina, etc, etc. At this point I'm liking DID's ZVM-X chains.

 

[joe02151]

are you losing seals at the master link? if so you may have over-riveted it. other than that i'm not sure, I've had 5 sets of EK chains, all lasted well over 20k miles, I tried an RK chain once but it stretched heavily at 10k miles. Now I'm on my second DID chain, the first went 24k miles, this one is on 12k miles no issues. I'm not the best at remembering to clean or lube my chains either. Do you let your bike sit for long periods of time?

 

[Bonz]

EK ZVX2 is at over 32,000 miles on my ZRX1200. Clean/lube every 250-350 miles unless on the road and then reapply lube each day and wipe down when I get home.
-Wipe down with a kerosene dampened rag when I get back from a ride with the chain warm, wipe with a dry rag.
-I have come to really like the Honda "white graphite" spray lube. Does not fling at all and no crappy build up under the countershaft sprocket cover.

Smoky14, good on you for dropping a seal in some kerosene. It's been a couple weeks since you posted that, how did it fare?
- I don't buy the "no kerosene" for a minute. What cleaner do they recommend?

 

[Smoky14]

Well the "O" ring after 2 weeks looks just like it did when I started, so kerosene doesn't seem to have an effect. Further investigation of the chain shows it is the leading seal in the link that departs which would lead me to believe that the acceleration factor going over the countershaft sprocket may have an affect, it is also the inboard side of the chain which gets more dust and more heat soaked. Some of the seals are stuck to the housing covering the countershaft sprocket which further confirms the acceleration theory.
I usually lube the chain after a good ride and immediately wipe down with a clean rag which cleans the surface, this is done in the 200 mile range. On a trip I lube and clean each fuel stop, 150-200 miles.
I'm a gentle rider and have never had to adjust the chain after the initial break in. I'm stumped and hate having to replace chains yearly since I don't run cheap chains.
RK recommends Maxima chain cleaner and the PJ1 Blue is on their approved list.
Thanks for your interest.
Smoky
PS: NM is a dusty environment which my contribute but speaking to locals sheds little light then again they want to know how I discovered it as did the folks at RK chain.

 

[Bonz]

The bike in question is a Bandit 1200 which makes 100 hp at the wheel and 70 ft/lbs in any period road test. Here is one test/comparo, scroll down to see dyno charts.

https://www.cycleworld.com/sport-rider/birth-super-standards/

I owned a 1997 Bandit 1200S years ago. I shimmed the needles and added a slip-on exhaust canister which made it good for 105 hp and 72 f/lbs on a dyno. It is NOT hotter than most. There are hundreds and hundreds of thousands of these bikes and similar around the world such as my current ZRX 1200 (145 hp and 87 ft/lbs with mods), Yamaha FZ1‘s, liter bikes, etc that run circles around our beloved Bandit 1200 in power. The problem is not the chain accelerating over the counter shaft sprocket if everything is as it should be.

You have something unique and peculiar to your bike that is not as it should be. Are you running the stock gearing? Did you go down in counter sprocket size or up in rear sprocket size? I can't remember if there are any spacers for mounting the counter shaft sprocket? Again I can't remember if the countershaft sprocket needs to be mounted specifically one side in and one side out?

I am simply trying to understand why this happens to every chain that goes on your bike. You need to dig deeper there is something that is not right. You say the alignment is OK, but it sounds like the inner side plates may be up hitting against the countershaft sprocket, in a sense putting a brief gap between them allowing the rings to work their way out.

At some point you are not going to get help with the new chain, it needs to be figured out.

 

[Bonz]

All right, it's been almost a week, what did you find out? Did you figure out the issue?

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Technically speaking the old rubber O rings are no longer employed by
chain manufactures and the reasons are:

1)Poor Resistance to Drying Out
2)High Drag
3)Sealed at only 2 points
4)No Reservoirs of Lube
5)Fragile stuff

Currently we have the X or W rings designed out of the new fluoroelastomer
product known commercially as Viton or Kalrez and reasons are:

1)Excellent Resistance to Drying Out
2)Low Drag
3)Seals at 4 points
4)Grooved Reservoirs of Lube
5)Tuff stuff

What that means for us is the fact Viton or Kalrez X or W rings will be
100% serviceable far beyond a chain's life...They have a excellent
resistance to most chemicals including petroleum products... most
important it doesn't need protection from drying out because the
groves in the X rings hold reservoirs of factory install grease...

Your Problem...
If you're jettisoning X rings on one side of the chain look for possible interference between the bike and rings...

If you're jettisoning X rings on both sides of the chain look for possible vandalizium or rodents...

 

[Smoky14]

I know these are suppose to be bulletproof, thus my wonderment. The links which broke the rings measure about .004 narrower than the other links not enough to make a difference IMO. I'm currently soaking a ring in PJ1 just to eliminate a variable.
The DID rings appeared to tear at an angle. The RK rings look like they just smapped since the break is at 90 degrees to the circumference.
In the old days I ran non sealed chains for 30K miles so the lack of service I get from the new and improved chain have been disappointing and expensive.
Still investigating and hope to solve the mystery.
Smoky

 

[BusyLittleShop]

I remember the non sealed days too... after all I've been riding since 1965 and have competed in both Dirt and Road racing ... back in 1982 I thought Yamaha's XV920 oil bath enclosed chain was brilliant...