All makes have packages now. Even some of the Japanese packages have items I don't want or need.
BMW CEO steps away after market loss
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Originally Posted by MCompact
Originally Posted by skyactiv
It seems 90% of the time German autos are discussed on here the reliability factor is brought up.
My wife and I drove Japanese until she started making good money. She made $270K last year, I made $77K. No mortgage and zero debt.
Her Audi hasn't given her any trouble.
Do I have to remind you that actual owners of German cars have zero credibility on BITOG? The real experts haven't even sat in the cars they are disparaging.
Very true.
Originally Posted by skyactiv
It seems 90% of the time German autos are discussed on here the reliability factor is brought up.
My wife and I drove Japanese until she started making good money. She made $270K last year, I made $77K. No mortgage and zero debt.
Her Audi hasn't given her any trouble.
Do I have to remind you that actual owners of German cars have zero credibility on BITOG? The real experts haven't even sat in the cars they are disparaging.
Very true.
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by PimTac
Everyone is is consolidating and getting bigger. Which direction will BMW go? Absorb or be absorbed?
BMW with Toyota or Mercedes? BMW and Mercedes entered a partnership on next gen autonomous vehicles. Problem is that I don't know if anyone needs BMW.
I doubt Toyota wants them. Toyota is getting into the whole mobility sector and not just passenger vehicles. That family is getting big.
Even though they worked with BMW on the Supra...
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by PimTac
Everyone is is consolidating and getting bigger. Which direction will BMW go? Absorb or be absorbed?
BMW with Toyota or Mercedes? BMW and Mercedes entered a partnership on next gen autonomous vehicles. Problem is that I don't know if anyone needs BMW.
I doubt Toyota wants them. Toyota is getting into the whole mobility sector and not just passenger vehicles. That family is getting big.
Even though they worked with BMW on the Supra...
On the BMW X3, I would like to purchase a base model with one package that would include Leather upholstery, Upgraded audio, Sun roof, rear camera etc that is more or less standard on upscale vehicles. I can't do that with BMW or MB. I feel BMW is still trying to massage the Ego of typical buyers from long ago and it just doesn't work nearly as well with today purchaser. Ed
Originally Posted by user52165
Originally Posted by Mr Nice
I'm no fan of Elon..... but I do have to agree Tesla is very innovative with their technologies.
And their use of subsidies and incentives.
A level playing field may have yielded different results.
Everyone making electrics and opening a factory in the same states gets the same subsidies and incentives Tesla does.
While were on the playing field topic -
Ford still owes us billions, and GM got their nice tidy bankruptcy to help out while hosing us stockholders.
UD
Originally Posted by Mr Nice
I'm no fan of Elon..... but I do have to agree Tesla is very innovative with their technologies.
And their use of subsidies and incentives.
A level playing field may have yielded different results.
Everyone making electrics and opening a factory in the same states gets the same subsidies and incentives Tesla does.
While were on the playing field topic -
Ford still owes us billions, and GM got their nice tidy bankruptcy to help out while hosing us stockholders.
UD
Last edited:
Originally Posted by UncleDave
Originally Posted by user52165
Originally Posted by Mr Nice
I'm no fan of Elon..... but I do have to agree Tesla is very innovative with their technologies.
And their use of subsidies and incentives.
A level playing field may have yielded different results.
Everyone making electrics and opening a factory in the same states gets the same subsidies and incentives Tesla does.
While were on the playing field topic -
Ford still owes us billions, and GM got their nice tidy bankruptcy to help out while hosing us stockholders.
UD
I guess I find it hard to understand why people don't like Tesla.
The cars are amazing; there is no other car like the Model 3.
Heck, the new $90K Jag falls far short.
Tesla is a great American car company; what Musk and Tesla have done is nothing short of remarkable.
Originally Posted by user52165
Originally Posted by Mr Nice
I'm no fan of Elon..... but I do have to agree Tesla is very innovative with their technologies.
And their use of subsidies and incentives.
A level playing field may have yielded different results.
Everyone making electrics and opening a factory in the same states gets the same subsidies and incentives Tesla does.
While were on the playing field topic -
Ford still owes us billions, and GM got their nice tidy bankruptcy to help out while hosing us stockholders.
UD
I guess I find it hard to understand why people don't like Tesla.
The cars are amazing; there is no other car like the Model 3.
Heck, the new $90K Jag falls far short.
Tesla is a great American car company; what Musk and Tesla have done is nothing short of remarkable.
It sure polarizes people. Elon is easy to dislike. A brilliant [censored].
Were finally seeing him grow up a bit in his last press meeting
The product is amazing and its awesome to see an American company at the top of the sales charts.
The "Tesla killers" have been a joke comparatively- the Audi's range and efficiency are underwhelming as are the jags.
No one is even close with a charging network. Lots of talk - no product.
I keep hearing "wait tilll the big guys get on board - they are hopelessly behind.
The domestics have no plan to be able to actually build BEV's for a profit their plan is to subsidize losses in that sector with ICE vehicles.
UD
Were finally seeing him grow up a bit in his last press meeting
The product is amazing and its awesome to see an American company at the top of the sales charts.
The "Tesla killers" have been a joke comparatively- the Audi's range and efficiency are underwhelming as are the jags.
No one is even close with a charging network. Lots of talk - no product.
I keep hearing "wait tilll the big guys get on board - they are hopelessly behind.
The domestics have no plan to be able to actually build BEV's for a profit their plan is to subsidize losses in that sector with ICE vehicles.
UD
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
But I hope the all or none perception tempers some, let Japanese companies compete with Tesla, and GM needs a new CEO if she thinks the time is right to jump hard in this arena … make LT's that folks both want + humans need ~ and dabble enough to stay technically measured in the game
"Second mouse gets the cheese" fits some companies better …
"Second mouse gets the cheese" fits some companies better …
The BMW did good thing when they sent that anti-anything on four wheel guy to VW. I forgot his name, but his response was: cut cost on everything and anything and try to make vehicles to be all other vehicles (hence F10, F30 etc. BMW's).
Originally Posted by jeepman3071
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by PimTac
Everyone is is consolidating and getting bigger. Which direction will BMW go? Absorb or be absorbed?
BMW with Toyota or Mercedes? BMW and Mercedes entered a partnership on next gen autonomous vehicles. Problem is that I don't know if anyone needs BMW.
I doubt Toyota wants them. Toyota is getting into the whole mobility sector and not just passenger vehicles. That family is getting big.
Even though they worked with BMW on the Supra...
That's because Toyota knows they can't make a fun car, so they have to go to someone else who does.
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by PimTac
Everyone is is consolidating and getting bigger. Which direction will BMW go? Absorb or be absorbed?
BMW with Toyota or Mercedes? BMW and Mercedes entered a partnership on next gen autonomous vehicles. Problem is that I don't know if anyone needs BMW.
I doubt Toyota wants them. Toyota is getting into the whole mobility sector and not just passenger vehicles. That family is getting big.
Even though they worked with BMW on the Supra...
That's because Toyota knows they can't make a fun car, so they have to go to someone else who does.
Originally Posted by UncleDave
It sure polarizes people. Elon is easy to dislike. A brilliant [censored].
Were finally seeing him grow up a bit in his last press meeting
The product is amazing and its awesome to see an American company at the top of the sales charts.
The "Tesla killers" have been a joke comparatively- the Audi's range and efficiency are underwhelming as are the jags.
No one is even close with a charging network. Lots of talk - no product.
I keep hearing "wait tilll the big guys get on board - they are hopelessly behind.
The domestics have no plan to be able to actually build BEV's for a profit their plan is to subsidize losses in that sector with ICE vehicles.
UD
Established car companies have perhaps hundreds of years of car design, manufacturing experience and resources.
Tesla started from the ground up and only builds electric cars.
Now that is remarkable.
The snotty nosed kid is building the #1 selling luxury car in the world, figuring it out as they go, and beating the big guys.
Now that is remarkable.
I guess haters gonna hate.
It sure polarizes people. Elon is easy to dislike. A brilliant [censored].
Were finally seeing him grow up a bit in his last press meeting
The product is amazing and its awesome to see an American company at the top of the sales charts.
The "Tesla killers" have been a joke comparatively- the Audi's range and efficiency are underwhelming as are the jags.
No one is even close with a charging network. Lots of talk - no product.
I keep hearing "wait tilll the big guys get on board - they are hopelessly behind.
The domestics have no plan to be able to actually build BEV's for a profit their plan is to subsidize losses in that sector with ICE vehicles.
UD
Established car companies have perhaps hundreds of years of car design, manufacturing experience and resources.
Tesla started from the ground up and only builds electric cars.
Now that is remarkable.
The snotty nosed kid is building the #1 selling luxury car in the world, figuring it out as they go, and beating the big guys.
Now that is remarkable.
I guess haters gonna hate.
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Telsa 18 wheeler will never happen, good concept though.
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by UncleDave
It sure polarizes people. Elon is easy to dislike. A brilliant [censored].
Were finally seeing him grow up a bit in his last press meeting
The product is amazing and its awesome to see an American company at the top of the sales charts.
The "Tesla killers" have been a joke comparatively- the Audi's range and efficiency are underwhelming as are the jags.
No one is even close with a charging network. Lots of talk - no product.
I keep hearing "wait tilll the big guys get on board - they are hopelessly behind.
The domestics have no plan to be able to actually build BEV's for a profit their plan is to subsidize losses in that sector with ICE vehicles.
UD
Established car companies have perhaps hundreds of years of car design, manufacturing experience and resources.
Tesla started from the ground up and only builds electric cars.
Now that is remarkable.
The snotty nosed kid is building the #1 selling luxury car in the world, figuring it out as they go, and beating the big guys.
Now that is remarkable.
I guess haters gonna hate.
Tesla is a trend among kids challenged to walk on two feet. It is not a car that drives them to a purchase, it is neighbor and that oversized screen inside. I yet to see Tesla driver that has eyes on the road and not on a screen.
Wait a bit.
Originally Posted by UncleDave
It sure polarizes people. Elon is easy to dislike. A brilliant [censored].
Were finally seeing him grow up a bit in his last press meeting
The product is amazing and its awesome to see an American company at the top of the sales charts.
The "Tesla killers" have been a joke comparatively- the Audi's range and efficiency are underwhelming as are the jags.
No one is even close with a charging network. Lots of talk - no product.
I keep hearing "wait tilll the big guys get on board - they are hopelessly behind.
The domestics have no plan to be able to actually build BEV's for a profit their plan is to subsidize losses in that sector with ICE vehicles.
UD
Established car companies have perhaps hundreds of years of car design, manufacturing experience and resources.
Tesla started from the ground up and only builds electric cars.
Now that is remarkable.
The snotty nosed kid is building the #1 selling luxury car in the world, figuring it out as they go, and beating the big guys.
Now that is remarkable.
I guess haters gonna hate.
Tesla is a trend among kids challenged to walk on two feet. It is not a car that drives them to a purchase, it is neighbor and that oversized screen inside. I yet to see Tesla driver that has eyes on the road and not on a screen.
Wait a bit.
Originally Posted by 4WD
let Japanese companies compete with Tesla
Toyota is definitely winning big with Uber - in both investing in them for self-driving cars and the Prius being the de facto Uber car.
I think the only company that can threaten Tesla is Toyota. However, Toyota is a even more conservative company than pre-Mary Barra GM, the original Lexus LS400, Prius, Mirai and LFA were exceptions to the rule. Toyota is waiting for solid-state batteries to be more viable. I wouldn't doubt Panasonic pulled back from Tesla due to keiretsu(Toyota) pressure.
let Japanese companies compete with Tesla
Toyota is definitely winning big with Uber - in both investing in them for self-driving cars and the Prius being the de facto Uber car.
I think the only company that can threaten Tesla is Toyota. However, Toyota is a even more conservative company than pre-Mary Barra GM, the original Lexus LS400, Prius, Mirai and LFA were exceptions to the rule. Toyota is waiting for solid-state batteries to be more viable. I wouldn't doubt Panasonic pulled back from Tesla due to keiretsu(Toyota) pressure.
Originally Posted by Skippy722
That's because Toyota knows they can't make a fun car, so they have to go to someone else who does.
In the 60s-80s they did make fun cars without chassis help. Even though they did get Yamaha's help on engines. The LFA is the modern fun to drive Toyota but it's Lexus-badged and isn't affordable.
That's because Toyota knows they can't make a fun car, so they have to go to someone else who does.
In the 60s-80s they did make fun cars without chassis help. Even though they did get Yamaha's help on engines. The LFA is the modern fun to drive Toyota but it's Lexus-badged and isn't affordable.
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Established car companies have perhaps hundreds of years of car design, manufacturing experience and resources.
Tesla started from the ground up and only builds electric cars.
Now that is remarkable.
The snotty nosed kid is building the #1 selling luxury car in the world, figuring it out as they go, and beating the big guys.
Now that is remarkable.
I guess haters gonna hate.
Luxury based on price, with an interior of a Mazda and the exterior that is as exciting as a lego car. Props for Tesla's R&D but their initial release was definitely geared towards rich people despite their "better for the environment" approach.
Established car companies have perhaps hundreds of years of car design, manufacturing experience and resources.
Tesla started from the ground up and only builds electric cars.
Now that is remarkable.
The snotty nosed kid is building the #1 selling luxury car in the world, figuring it out as they go, and beating the big guys.
Now that is remarkable.
I guess haters gonna hate.
Luxury based on price, with an interior of a Mazda and the exterior that is as exciting as a lego car. Props for Tesla's R&D but their initial release was definitely geared towards rich people despite their "better for the environment" approach.
Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by Skippy722
That's because Toyota knows they can't make a fun car, so they have to go to someone else who does.
In the 60s-80s they did make fun cars without chassis help. Even though they did get Yamaha's help on engines. The LFA is the modern fun to drive Toyota but it's Lexus-badged and isn't affordable.
LFA is more of a concept car. Building such car in that price range is not as difficult as building something like Supra that has to be affordable, yet fun. When budget is not an issue, things are easier to do.
Originally Posted by Skippy722
That's because Toyota knows they can't make a fun car, so they have to go to someone else who does.
In the 60s-80s they did make fun cars without chassis help. Even though they did get Yamaha's help on engines. The LFA is the modern fun to drive Toyota but it's Lexus-badged and isn't affordable.
LFA is more of a concept car. Building such car in that price range is not as difficult as building something like Supra that has to be affordable, yet fun. When budget is not an issue, things are easier to do.
Originally Posted by Pew
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Established car companies have perhaps hundreds of years of car design, manufacturing experience and resources.
Tesla started from the ground up and only builds electric cars.
Now that is remarkable.
The snotty nosed kid is building the #1 selling luxury car in the world, figuring it out as they go, and beating the big guys.
Now that is remarkable.
I guess haters gonna hate.
Luxury based on price, with an interior of a Mazda and the exterior that is as exciting as a lego car. Props for Tesla's R&D but their initial release was definitely geared towards rich people despite their "better for the environment" approach.
Price? Yes, they are expensive. We buyers are early adopters. Going green is certainly part of it. My car was well over $60K out the door and it is a mid range real wheel drive.
I disagree with the Mazda interior. There is no interior like the Model 3. You might be surprised at the detail; the little things.
The engineering is this car is simply amazing.
I suggest you compare these cars with any other electric.
Compared to the GS350 F Sport (a wonderful car); the GS seems over complicated, waaaay to many buttons.
Crazy as it sounds, I am thinking about buying another...
Check out what is streaming...
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Established car companies have perhaps hundreds of years of car design, manufacturing experience and resources.
Tesla started from the ground up and only builds electric cars.
Now that is remarkable.
The snotty nosed kid is building the #1 selling luxury car in the world, figuring it out as they go, and beating the big guys.
Now that is remarkable.
I guess haters gonna hate.
Luxury based on price, with an interior of a Mazda and the exterior that is as exciting as a lego car. Props for Tesla's R&D but their initial release was definitely geared towards rich people despite their "better for the environment" approach.
Price? Yes, they are expensive. We buyers are early adopters. Going green is certainly part of it. My car was well over $60K out the door and it is a mid range real wheel drive.
I disagree with the Mazda interior. There is no interior like the Model 3. You might be surprised at the detail; the little things.
The engineering is this car is simply amazing.
I suggest you compare these cars with any other electric.
Compared to the GS350 F Sport (a wonderful car); the GS seems over complicated, waaaay to many buttons.
Crazy as it sounds, I am thinking about buying another...
Check out what is streaming...
Last edited:
Originally Posted by edyvw
Tesla is a trend among kids challenged to walk on two feet. It is not a car that drives them to a purchase, it is neighbor and that oversized screen inside. I yet to see Tesla driver that has eyes on the road and not on a screen.
Wait a bit.
"Kids" dont control the luxury segments Tesla is leading in- well-heeled adults with money do.
Wait for what exactly? and till when? - Ive been listening to people tell me to "just wait" since Teslas inception in 2010 at 17.00 a share.
Ive heard everything from " analysts" and regular joes alike about what they will " never do" and guess what - they've by and large done it - behind schedule to be fair - bit nothing of its scope is ever on time.
When Toyota came out with the Prius hybrid - people said "just wait" till the Americans get in the hybrid game.
IF it werent for tesla the domestic top-selling segments other than pick up trucks (lots made in Mexico) would almost completely cede to the foreign automakers.
UD
Tesla is a trend among kids challenged to walk on two feet. It is not a car that drives them to a purchase, it is neighbor and that oversized screen inside. I yet to see Tesla driver that has eyes on the road and not on a screen.
Wait a bit.
"Kids" dont control the luxury segments Tesla is leading in- well-heeled adults with money do.
Wait for what exactly? and till when? - Ive been listening to people tell me to "just wait" since Teslas inception in 2010 at 17.00 a share.
Ive heard everything from " analysts" and regular joes alike about what they will " never do" and guess what - they've by and large done it - behind schedule to be fair - bit nothing of its scope is ever on time.
When Toyota came out with the Prius hybrid - people said "just wait" till the Americans get in the hybrid game.
IF it werent for tesla the domestic top-selling segments other than pick up trucks (lots made in Mexico) would almost completely cede to the foreign automakers.
UD
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