Favorite American Made Muscle Car

[wings&wheels]

Originally Posted by dnewton3
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by cjcride
There are many great US muscle cars yet the AC Cobra and Pontiac GTO would be my picks.



Yet the AC Cobra isn't a American car.


Incorrect.

The Cobra was raced and credited as an American product. Sure, it was based on the Bristol AC early on. But that's where it ended. Shelby not only did power-train mods, but also suspension, brakes, etc.

Try telling Shelby, Bondurant, Miles, Yates and others that they didn't work for Shelby American.
Try explaining why Enzo cancelled the last race of the season in Monza, so that the Cobra would not win the 1964 championship for the Americans.
Try recalling that in 1965 the American team won the only FIA championship for the US, handily spanking the Ferrari team by a w-i-d-e- points margin.

Time for a history lesson. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqMNR7Qe82g






Weren't the bodies and most of the rolling chassis still made by AC through the end of the deal with Ford, even for the US market? The few late ones I've seen had Smiths gauges....

 

[cjcride]

That's what I'm talking about!

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted by Marco620
Buick Grand National GNX



I owned a well prepped Porsche 914-6 many years ago. It was not slow. I still remember the Grand National's taillights as they disappeared from view.

He was so much faster than me, we were not even worth comparing. I might as well have been on a bicycle.

I'm 100% sure he had a few good mods. A stock one is not "that" fast.

 

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by dnewton3
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by cjcride
There are many great US muscle cars yet the AC Cobra and Pontiac GTO would be my picks.



Yet the AC Cobra isn't a American car.


Incorrect.

The Cobra was raced and credited as an American product. Sure, it was based on the Bristol AC early on. But that's where it ended. Shelby not only did power-train mods, but also suspension, brakes, etc.

Try telling Shelby, Bondurant, Miles, Yates and others that they didn't work for Shelby American.
Try explaining why Enzo cancelled the last race of the season in Monza, so that the Cobra would not win the 1964 championship for the Americans.
Try recalling that in 1965 the American team won the only FIA championship for the US, handily spanking the Ferrari team by a w-i-d-e- points margin.

Time for a history lesson. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqMNR7Qe82g






I would have no issue telling anyone my opinions, No need to stroke anyone's ego.
If I build a Triumph TR7 with a Buick 3.8L/T5, Narrowed GM 8.5", Wilwood brakes......It's now an american car? Or am I not famous enough?

I was particularly referring to the AC Cobra Roadsters.....Not the Shelby Daytona Coupes

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

1969 Double COPO Camaro!

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
The muscle car was born in 1964 when DeLorean stuffed the 389 in the Tempest A body and named it after a Ferrari.
Against corporation standards...
Everybody played catch up after that.


15 years and at least 3 cars late: 1949 Rocket 88, 1955 C-300, 1957 Rambler Rebel.

 

[Smokescreen]

From Wiki:

1949 Rocket 88: The first real King of Nascar.
The 1949 model was equipped with an ignition key and a starter push-button to engage the starter. Pushing the starter button would engage the starter, but if the ignition key was not inserted, unlocking the ignition, the car would not start. The car was equipped with an oil bath air cleaner.

...A new option for 1958 was a "Trans-Portable" radio that could be removed from the instrument panel through the glove compartment and used as a portable radio for beaches, picnics, etc. thanks to portable batteries.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted by Smokescreen
From Wiki:

1949 Rocket 88: The first real King of Nascar.
The 1949 model was equipped with an ignition key and a starter push-button to engage the starter. Pushing the starter button would engage the starter, but if the ignition key was not inserted, unlocking the ignition, the car would not start. The car was equipped with an oil bath air cleaner.

...A new option for 1958 was a "Trans-Portable" radio that could be removed from the instrument panel through the glove compartment and used as a portable radio for beaches, picnics, etc. thanks to portable batteries.

Are you attempting to stumble upon a POINT?

 

[Smokescreen]

LOL Jaraxle,

Sure, I thought the 1949 Rocket 88 had some some nifty features that most thought were so innovative and cool when they became mainstream with the modern keyless fob, that's all.

Companies have been offering up performance models of cars for a long time, just when we think we found the earliest, there seems to be another. All due to the quest for higher performance. But this is about American Muscle, so I will just provide some eye candy of muscle car that could actually take corners. 1967 L88 Corvette Stingray.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMSmMik--M8

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted by Smokescreen
LOL Jaraxle,

Sure, I thought the 1949 Rocket 88 had some some nifty features that most thought were so innovative and cool when they became mainstream with the modern keyless fob, that's all.

Companies have been offering up performance models of cars for a long time, just when we think we found the earliest, there seems to be another. All due to the quest for higher performance. But this is about American Muscle, so I will just provide some eye candy of muscle car that could actually take corners. 1967 L88 Corvette Stingray.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMSmMik--M8

It's not a muscle car.

It couldn't actually take a corner, especially with that 750lb lump under the hood.

 

[edwardh1]

gto pontiiac

 

[Smokescreen]

Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
Originally Posted by Smokescreen
LOL Jaraxle,

Sure, I thought the 1949 Rocket 88 had some some nifty features that most thought were so innovative and cool when they became mainstream with the modern keyless fob, that's all.

Companies have been offering up performance models of cars for a long time, just when we think we found the earliest, there seems to be another. All due to the quest for higher performance. But this is about American Muscle, so I will just provide some eye candy of muscle car that could actually take corners. 1967 L88 Corvette Stingray.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMSmMik--M8

It's not a muscle car.

It couldn't actually take a corner, especially with that 750lb lump under the hood.


So if it only went good in a straight line 0-60 in 4.7 seconds and couldn't take a corner it cant be a sportscar..but had a monster engine 427 ci, 7.0L with over 500 hp ....its a muscle car automatically!

The you tube link said it was muscle car of the week....ding again...

Think what you want but I consider it to be a great muscle car.

It's so sad that a car that cant take corners was raced on the circuit and also called a hot rod....I guess it was terrible at everything to everyone but me.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted by Smokescreen
Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
Originally Posted by Smokescreen
LOL Jaraxle,

Sure, I thought the 1949 Rocket 88 had some some nifty features that most thought were so innovative and cool when they became mainstream with the modern keyless fob, that's all.

Companies have been offering up performance models of cars for a long time, just when we think we found the earliest, there seems to be another. All due to the quest for higher performance. But this is about American Muscle, so I will just provide some eye candy of muscle car that could actually take corners. 1967 L88 Corvette Stingray.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMSmMik--M8

It's not a muscle car.

It couldn't actually take a corner, especially with that 750lb lump under the hood.


So if it only went good in a straight line 0-60 in 4.7 seconds and couldn't take a corner it cant be a sportscar..but had a monster engine 427 ci, 7.0L with over 500 hp ....its a muscle car automatically!

The you tube link said it was muscle car of the week....ding again...

Think what you want but I consider it to be a great muscle car.

It's so sad that a car that cant take corners was raced on the circuit and also called a hot rod....I guess it was terrible at everything to everyone but me.

2-seater instantly excludes it from being a muscle car. Circuit racers didn't use iron big-blocks...for a reason!

It was fast in a straight line...not good for much else. (Like a Hemi Dart, but slower.)

 

[JeffKeryk]

The L88 saved a couple of hundred pounds by using aluminum heads. The L36 in my car is the heavy one.
There is a definition of a muscle car (and pony cars and sports cars), but the definition has been blurred.

I love 'em all. But my days of dumping huge $$ and time into them is over.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
Circuit racers didn't use iron big-blocks...for a reason!



Tell that to John Greenwood, and the others, who raced alloy headed big block Vettes (and yes, later the very rare ALL alloy ZL-1 big blocks) in early IMSA competition at all of the road circuits in the states (including the Daytona 24 Hours), as well as elsewhere.

(Not to mention all of the very successful big block CanAm cars as well.)

 

[JeffKeryk]

Originally Posted by dailydriver
Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
Circuit racers didn't use iron big-blocks...for a reason!



Tell that to John Greenwood, and the others, who raced alloy headed big block Vettes (and yes, later the very rare ALL alloy ZL-1 big blocks) in early IMSA competition at all of the road circuits in the states (including the Daytona 24 Hours), as well as elsewhere.

(Not to mention all of the very successful big block CanAm cars as well.)

Yup.
Here's the famous 1968 L88 Le Mans racer that ran under the Ferrari team; notice the prancing horse.

 

[dwcopple]

1969 Mach 1

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted by wings&wheels
Originally Posted by dnewton3
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by cjcride
There are many great US muscle cars yet the AC Cobra and Pontiac GTO would be my picks.



Yet the AC Cobra isn't a American car.


Incorrect.

The Cobra was raced and credited as an American product. Sure, it was based on the Bristol AC early on. But that's where it ended. Shelby not only did power-train mods, but also suspension, brakes, etc.

Try telling Shelby, Bondurant, Miles, Yates and others that they didn't work for Shelby American.
Try explaining why Enzo cancelled the last race of the season in Monza, so that the Cobra would not win the 1964 championship for the Americans.
Try recalling that in 1965 the American team won the only FIA championship for the US, handily spanking the Ferrari team by a w-i-d-e- points margin.

Time for a history lesson. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqMNR7Qe82g






Weren't the bodies and most of the rolling chassis still made by AC through the end of the deal with Ford, even for the US market? The few late ones I've seen had Smiths gauges....


Shelby did put the small Windsor into a British AC chassis; started with the 260 and then quickly to the 289. The Cobra was "American" because that's how it was created and raced and sold.

Don't forget that the 427 Cobra was all American designed and made. Once the big FE was chosen, the 3" tube AC chassis was not larger enough for the torque, so Shelby collaborated with Ford and used their engineering to design a 4" tube chassis, and the bodies were tweaked to look like the first generation, but really there's no direct body panels that interchange (perhaps the door panels????). I'm not familiar if the body still came from AC, but the 427 chassis was all US designed and made. I think the 427 body was done in the US as well, but cannot say for sure.

So while some can say that the 260/289 chassis roadsters had British origin, the 427 was pure American. And again, they were all sold, raced and credited as American cars. To me, and most all others, the Cobras are all American. Shelby did the importing, not Ford. Shelby bought AC chassis and Ford engines; then merged them. When it was time for more power and the larger chassis, Ford helped, but it was still a Shelby American product.

My point? "Cobra" really isn't definitive enough. Small block? Big block? Daytona Coupe (still a small block with different body).
- The small block roadster Cobras were based on the AC chassis, modified to Shelby's specs. They were made, raced, titled and sold in the US as USA cars. A British origin does not make them British cars. Shelby was a licensed car manufacturer. Sure, he was a hot-rodder at heart, but a licensed one that made "American" cars. To me, and most any other person, they are "American" cars.
- Daytona Coupe was even more "American". Brock and others modified the roadster to get another 20mph top speed from the same 289 engine and chassis, tweaked for greater speed. Here again, most everyone considers it "American" despite the chassis origin.
- The big block cars were pure American; no debate there.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted by dailydriver
Originally Posted by Jarlaxle
Circuit racers didn't use iron big-blocks...for a reason!



Tell that to John Greenwood, and the others, who raced alloy headed big block Vettes (and yes, later the very rare ALL alloy ZL-1 big blocks) in early IMSA competition at all of the road circuits in the states (including the Daytona 24 Hours), as well as elsewhere.

(Not to mention all of the very successful big block CanAm cars as well.)


So...did you not READ what you quoted, did you not UNDERSTAND it, or did you just ignore it?

 

[JeffKeryk]

The L88 blocks were iron with aluminum heads. L88 Corvettes were made from 67 to 69.
The ZL-1 was a 69 only car only with 2 made and sold to the public. Aluminum alloy block as well as cylinder heads.

ZL-1 race cars had the engines bought over the counter.
Heck the racers had many engines bought over the counter.