120k Transmission - Flush or Drain

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Soflonole27

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Jun 26, 2019
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Davie, Florida
Hey all,

So yeah, my first post is going to be a "did I wreck my car" type post. Here is alittle background on the vehicle. 2012 Dodge avenger 2.4L 118k miles currently on the odometer. Overall the car seems to be in good health, has regular oil changes (every 5-6k full synthetic), coolant flushed every 30k, replaced serpentine belt last week, no leaks, etc. But what is really worrying me is the transmission...

In the 118k miles it has only had a drain and fill at 68k. If you take a look at the 2012 dodge avenger owner manual it mentions replacing AT fluid at 60k for fleet, taxi, police, heavy towing; 120k for normal driving conditions. I repeat nothing about changing AT before 120k for normal driving... Looking at my AT fluid today it is pinkish red with a tint of brown, but not black by any means. Well this week I've started lurching on some auto sites. Some say that these extended 100k+ mile AT flushes that certain auto manufacturers are recommending on "newer cars", are complete B.S. and mostly a ploy to sell more cars... So this has me really worried about the transmission moving forward! The thought of a full flush losening years of gunk and rending the transmission useless is scary. I need this car to last the next 3 years and I dont really have the money atm for a new transmission. Personally, atm I think I'm going to pass on the flush and start with a drain and fill with a new filter. Then give it maybe 10-15k miles to see how it behaves, then another after another 10-15, and then finally every 30k from there.

What do do you guys think? If you bought this car knowing all this, how would you proceed? Flush, multiple drain and fills, do nothing and hope it lasts another 40k? I think based on the AT color it shouldn't be completely shot and like I said before it still runs very well.

Let me know,

Thanks guys!
 
You are one drain and fill ahead of most. No flush, do another drain and fill with filter and drive it for another 3 years! If it makes you feel better do another drain and fill in 12 months, but really, you are in great shape, no reason to worry.
 
Since it does not have a regular change schedule, like c502cid said you're already ahead of the game.

If you're concerned about shocking the transmission into failure, ease into it. Replace a small amount of ATF, drive it for a while, see what happens. Replace a little more each time.
 
Originally Posted by Soflonole27
Thats really good to hear! I've read how sensitive the internals are on a AT and many horror stories...Praying it holds up!


The horror stories tend to come from when all of the fluid is power flushed out at a fast lube shop on a car the guys there tell them won't hurt a thing and will make it run better than ever. Then they do said machine power flush on the car that probably never had the trans fluid touched in its life and sometimes it will not move out of the bay.

You are draining and filling, you can even do this from the top with a siphon, not on every car but on a lot, and contrary to popular belief you are most likely not hurting anything by doing this. Simple version is that cleaner fluid can only help.

The higher the mileage before you begin the regimen of changing the fluid, the easier and less at a time you want to change out for new, to be quote unquote gentle with it. Generally speaking. Sure, some people change all the fluid at once, they are very brave. Drain and fill is a lot safer.
 
My Chevy Equinox with a 2.4l and 6 speed 6T45 transmission, the fluid was black as night after 90K. These transmission are known to be hard on fluid and fail. No filter to replace or pan to clean. The dealer said it was normal. It was drained and filled only 13k miles before. I had it analyzed and it had 196 ppm aluminum, 84 for copper and 63 in iron. It was showing some drive-ability issues, hard down shifting 3-2nd, , moderate noise in 3rd and 5th and reverse. I had it flushed, took 13 quarts of Amsoil 100% synthetic Dexron VI. My estimate is that it replaced 90%. Problems went away. I had it analyzed again after 5k miles, AL 22, Copper 28, and iron 14. Not as high but higher than I would like. I flushed it again, getting back to 99% clean fluid. I have pictures of the fluid and sample of the oil on paper to show the cleanliness.

There is very little chance of damage or problems from flushing. Most shops use machines in which they only catch the fluid that would normally flow through your cooler and replace it with new. They do not back flush. Transmission do not collect varnish and sludge as does engines do if negleted. Don't let the shops talk you into a cleaner and conditioner. I caught one putting the solvent cleaner into my transmission after the flush. I made them do it all again. I have done flushes on all my vehicles over 30 years and never had a problem.

If your transmission is not slipping or showing extreme driveability issues, than a full flush will not be a problem. Do it right the first time and not worry about it. I am not proponent of partial drain and refills due to the remaining wear metals, contaminents, and other by-products of fluid oxidation.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by HangFire
Since it does not have a regular change schedule, like c502cid said you're already ahead of the game.

If you're concerned about shocking the transmission into failure, ease into it. Replace a small amount of ATF, drive it for a while, see what happens. Replace a little more each time.


"Shocking the transmission into failure" LOL I have heard it all. It is a machine for heavans sake, not living organism being infused with the wrong life sustaining fluid, blood.
 
Thanks for your response Talest! Yeah, I never trusted those quick lube places to change my wiper blades let alone under the hood. Makes sense easing into replacing the fluid to let whatever did build up slowly dissolve. Btw... I do have a siphon that I use on oil changes. 1) Should I be able to drain with the siphon since it does have a dipstick? I'm assuming the dipstick goes directly to the drain pan. 2) Is changing the trans filter on most cars not super difficult? I guess I can just youtube it. Lol Anyways, thanks!
 
Originally Posted by talest
Originally Posted by Soflonole27
Thats really good to hear! I've read how sensitive the internals are on a AT and many horror stories...Praying it holds up!


The horror stories tend to come from when all of the fluid is power flushed out at a fast lube shop on a car the guys there tell them won't hurt a thing and will make it run better than ever. Then they do said machine power flush on the car that probably never had the trans fluid touched in its life and sometimes it will not move out of the bay.


I have yet to come across any power flusher as you describe that is still in use today. This is likely an urban auto myth along with those that backflush supposedly. The only two types I have found are the ones the capture your transmission output and replace with equal amounts into the sump, or the one that siphons it out of the sump a little at time and replaces it using the same hose. The horror stories are mostly due to severely neglected transmission, and those who already showed significant problems prior to the flush.
 
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Interesting Talent... So whats your thought - Do you think with a drain and new filter there should be pretty decent chance of it lasting till 160k? Not looking to run it till the wheels fall off, just to make it through school.
 
This is like when people confer with Dr. Google and get themselves all worked up thinking that they are dying and start to panic.

If you're worried about your Avenger, you should see the ATF in my Rav4. It's black with barely any tinge of red. It's looked like that for over 200k miles. That you did a drain and fill at 68k puts you way ahead of most people. Just do another one hope for the best. I think of transmission drains and fills like exercise. They will probably make your car and you live longer and healthier but there are no guarantees. Sounds like you're taking good care of your Avenger. Good luck with it and good luck with school.
 
Originally Posted by Soflonole27
Interesting Talent... So whats your thought - Do you think with a drain and new filter there should be pretty decent chance of it lasting till 160k? Not looking to run it till the wheels fall off, just to make it through school.


Seeing you are at the 120k recommended fluid change, I would do a full flush to get you through for the next 40K+ miles and not worry if the partial fluid change was adequate.. Changing only 1/3 of the fluid, wear will only continue and increase. When times comes to sell, many owners are leary of cars with incomplete maintenance routines, especially transmissions. Showing a full flush service receipt is a big selling point for me and others. I have no skin in the game, anything to sell, or agenda to push for anyone. Just looking out for the best interests of consumers and owners. I have been flushing for years and have seen my transmissions last 250k miles or more without exception.
 
Probably. The transmissions that fail after an ATF change were beyond help. All the chattered off clutches and steels in the burnt fluid are giving friction until a drain and fill removes them. Driving it gently won't hurt either.
 
Not a flush, but a full transmission fluid replacement.......
1)Remove pan,drain fluid and replace filter.
2)Replace pan, refill transmission with factory recommended fluid and capacity.
3)Disconnect hose exiting transmission fluid cooler where it re- enters the transmission pan.
4)Pump out 2 quarts of fluid by starting car and letting the car pump out the fluid.

5)Stop car, put in 2 fresh quarts of ATF,
6)Repeat as many number of times, as needed to equal the capacity of fluid required for factory fill,
7)Re attach hose from cooler to transmission Pan.
8)Sit back and realize that you replaced all the fluid in your Transmission without harming it.
 
Originally Posted by Soflonole27
Thats really good to hear! I've read how sensitive the internals are on a AT and many horror stories...Praying it holds up!


The horror stories you've heard about flushing older tranny's are real. Many a person have effed up their ride doing it... do D&F with a quality fluid (maybe even pop for the OE fluid since it's treated you well) and then maybe do it again a year down the line. If you have a serviceable filter don't forget to change that. But all things being equal it sounds like you're tranny's happy right now, just don't do anything to eff' it up like a full flush.
 
It's not really a flush. Your transmission at idle pumps the fluid through the system just like it would do when running normally. The choice is whether you replace all of it or some of it. It's a drain and fill using the system's own pumping power.....which is pretty low pressure. On my car it takes about 1-2 min to pump out a gallon. So if the grit in this system is what's helping your transmission still operate while dying very slowly....better to leave that in than achieve a quick death. If your transmission shows no outward signs of abnormal shifting or noises....I'd probably replace all the fluid.
 
Do two or three drain and fills a few days apart. I just did two this last week on the Edge, 56k miles. I will probably have the dealer flush it for $200 at 100k or a little after. For now I feel good knowing I got about 70 percent new synthetic fluid for $70. I did the cooler line method on a different vehicle before and it uses a lot of fluid and leaves a lot of fluid to dispose of and is messy and takes a decent amount of time, not worth the $80 or less cost savings vs just having the dealer do it.
 
Originally Posted by incognito_2u
Not a flush, but a full transmission fluid replacement.......
1)Remove pan,drain fluid and replace filter.
2)Replace pan, refill transmission with factory recommended fluid and capacity.
3)Disconnect hose exiting transmission fluid cooler where it re- enters the transmission pan.
4)Pump out 2 quarts of fluid by starting car and letting the car pump out the fluid.

5)Stop car, put in 2 fresh quarts of ATF,
6)Repeat as many number of times, as needed to equal the capacity of fluid required for factory fill,
7)Re attach hose from cooler to transmission Pan.
8)Sit back and realize that you replaced all the fluid in your Transmission without harming it.


To complete a full fluid replacement, you need to run 2-3 extra quarts beyond the factory fill capacity. The reason for this is that
the torque converter functions as another sump, hold at least 1/3 of the volume. The new fluid will enter the converter, mix with the old fluid
and an equal amount of mixed fluid will leave.
 
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