Originally Posted by Tiir
Originally Posted by Talent_Keyhole
Were each of these thousands of vehicles, tracked and analyzed for wear thorough it's life to determine if there were any negative affects from oil with high contaminants. My local auto shop, pushes a syn blend, and when I suggested he investigate the real percentage of synthetic oil that he is selling to customer at much higher price, he responded the same way. I have done thousands of oil changes and no one has come back with a blown engine.
I doubted what others said about larger storage tanks and high levels of contamination. I bought a quart from the dealer and had the service rep fill up my sample bottle with the fluid that comes out of their dispenser. Sent it to Polaris Labs. Per ISO codes the oil in the tank had 32x more hard particulates than the quart bottle. The next week I saw a 3rd party delivery truck deliver more AC Delco (ExxonMobil) oil, and pumped into the same tank. I suspect the oil has passed through multiple storage tanks, trucks, hoses and handled my many parties since it was formulated at the factory some 1200 miles away. Every time you fill up for gas, the fuel passes through a 10 micron filter before it enters your car, for the same reason. Contamination from long term storage, distribution and handling is a problem.
If your source is the large plastic, reusable tanks, that some companies use, and it was filled and sealed at the blending facility, you may be in good shape.
The fact that you you work at the dealer, then I suggest you perform the same test, especially with 15 year old tanks. I suspect the service manager would rather not know, and not go along with samples.
You're truly splitting hairs to nth degree.
No, I did not track, and analyze the thousands of vehicles that I've personally seen over the the years to determine if high contaminants in bulk oil caused a problems, and well, I don't have too; since there are so many variables at play for one to conclude that bulk oil is a problem, as you say it is.
But for arguments sake; as far as variables go, you mentioned that you sent a sample in, if that's the case, you're basing statements on only one single sample, but, yet, except me to provide samples on thousands of vehicles? Further, at what level was the bulk tank sample taken by the service representative ? was it the upper, middle or lower section ? more so, in those sections was it taken in the upper, middle, or lower portion of those sections? Were the samples taken, and sent via VOA, and at what mileage ? Was the sample taken by drain or via fluid extractor? At what interval is the tank filled, is it weekly, monthly, quarterly, or yearly ?.....along with so many more variables. Even bottled oil has been shown to be "contaminated" from VOA's due to variations in bottle batches. Truth is, any form of oil is susceptible to contamination during the several stages of transport/refinement it endures, regardless if it's bulk or bottled oil.
Likewise, you cannot prove that any of the thousands of vehicles using oil from the high volume tanks did not suffer from higher containment levels, higher wear because there are too many variables.
A proven fact in the lubrication industry is that the cleaner the lubricant, prior to use and in-service will result in longer life of the equipment.
I assure you I am not the first to sample the same brand and grade of oil and compare a factory filled bottle with one that has gone through multiple levels of distribution and handling. The industry is fully aware of this issue,
LOL, as I said before it was from their dispenser. You know the hand-held, dispenser with the 50' retractible, rubber hose, that the lube techs use to fill the engine. Sample location is irrelevant. Can't be any closer to point of use than that.
Mileage of the New Lube Reference, Huh?. Interval of tank filled. Irrelevant. How often is the tank cleaned and contaminents removed, NEVER.
"Truth is, any form of oil is susceptible to contamination during the several stages of transport/refinement it endures, regardless if it's bulk or bottled oil." Were is your evidence? How does a sealed bottle of oil become contaminated, while in a sealed cardboard box during transportation and as it sits on the shelf waiting to be purchased?
I am not talking about refinement or blending. I am talking about transportation, distribution, storage and the multiple tanks and environment the oil has been exposed from the point of manufacturer to the moment it is dispensed into your engine. Bottled oil of the same brand, date of manufacture, and batch will be far cleaner than the same product going through multiple levels of handling described above.
In my case, the bottle had 600ppm @ (4um), the storage tank had 12,000 ppm @ (4um), and within 15 minutes of operation, my engine had 112,000 ppm @ (4um) circulating through the entire engine. The 20um filter is doing nothing for those contaminants.
