Synchromesh: Valvoline Vs. Pennzoil

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I'm changing the old Jeep's Synchromesh manual transmission fluid today. It is an NSG370 transmission.

Advance Auto has Pennzoil Synchromesh for 9 bucks a quart. O'Reilly has Valvoline for 10 bucks a quart.

What does the hive say about which might be better gear lube? The price is close enough not to be a factor. Are they essentially the same? I'm guessing Pennzoil was probably the original Jeep factory fill, at least in more recent years, due to FCA's close relationship with SOPUS.

One other quick question...What is the recommended shelf life of Synchromesh? I may have a bottle of Pennzoil stashed somewhere that's probably 5 years old. (If I do, and the shelf life is ok, that will decide it in favor of Pennzoil.)
 
The pz one makes my jeep shift notchy. I have the valvoline fluid in it now and its fine. I prefer the Royal purple fluid over both of those though. Last time I changed it napa had the valvoline on clearance for $3/qt and since I'm cheap thats why I got it.
 
Any of these dedicated MTL's should work:

NOTE: This list is only a "suggested" list of MTFs. It is not an endorsement of any one fluid, nor is it implied that any one fluid will cure problems in MTs that have design problems or those that have excessive wear.


Mopar Type MS-9417 MTL 9.0 cSt
Valvoline MTF Part Number 811095 9.2 cSt
Pennzoil Synchromesh 9.3 cSt
RAVENOL PSA 9.5 cSt
RAVENOL SSG 9.5 cSt
Redline MTL 75W80
Amsoil MTF (9.7 cSt)
GM Synchromesh's

Volvo MTF 645
Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID SAE 75W-80 synthetic MTF
Lodexol (Morris Lubricants) MTF
Motylgear 75W-80

Shelf Life is about 10 years for MTL oils. Suggest you warm it up and shake it well before installation if it has been on the shelf for 2 years or more.
 
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If they both meed the required spec, I would default to Valvoline simply due to personal preference.
Currently I run Amsoil synchromesh in my ZF S6-40 with excellent results.
 
I may try Valvoline. I ran Pennzoil awhile back and felt the Mopar was smoother and quieter. It is just too expensive. If I pay more, I'd be inclined towards Amsoil. I can't buy Amsoil off the shelf, though, and I want to change it tonight or tomorrow.

Any more experience out there with RP?
 
Originally Posted by Red91
Royal purple.



Royal Purple does NOT have an MTF dedicated lubricant in the 10 cSt range, if that is what you're referring to.

They have only the Synchromax which has the viscosity of Dex/Merc ATF (7.5 cSt).
 
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Originally Posted by MolaKule
Originally Posted by Red91
Royal purple.



Royal Purple does NOT have an MTF dedicated lubricant in the 10 cSt range, if that is what you're referring to.

They have only the Synchromax which has the viscosity of Dex/Merc ATF (7.5 cSt).


Ok, thanks. I'm going to pick up a couple quarts of Valvoline at Napa or O'Reilly and get it done.

Thanks for all the info, everyone!
 
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This information really needs to be in a "quick access reference sticky" somewhere....

Originally Posted by MolaKule

NOTE: This list is only a "suggested" list of MTFs. It is not an endorsement of any one fluid, nor is it implied that any one fluid will cure problems in MTs that have design problems or those that have excessive wear.

Mopar Type MS-9417 MTL 9.0 cSt
Valvoline MTF Part Number 811095 9.2 cSt
Pennzoil Synchromesh 9.3 cSt
RAVENOL PSA 9.5 cSt
RAVENOL SSG 9.5 cSt
Redline MTL 75W80
Amsoil MTF (9.7 cSt)
GM Synchromesh's

Volvo MTF 645
Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID SAE 75W-80 synthetic MTF
Lodexol (Morris Lubricants) MTF
Motylgear 75W-80

Suggest you warm it up and shake it well before installation if it has been on the shelf for 2 years or more.
 
Originally Posted by MolaKule
An Updated article is posted here:

Manual Transmission Fluids


Wow, great stuff! Thanks for sharing. I went with Valvoline. Everything feels smooth. Thanks again for the help and the education to all here. This site is such an incredible resource because of your generosity!
 
Sounds like they are well prepared for massive rebates and incentives. The guy or gal that spends 80 grand on it will thing he/she got a steal.
 
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I've noticed some differences between these fluids and thought this would be an appropriate place to continue the discussion.

At 40C, Pennzoil KV=41.6 cSt while Valvoline KV=49.9 cSt. In terms of Viscosity Index, Pennzoil VI=208, while Valvoline VI=157. The fluids do, however, have similar pour points and 100C KVs.

1. Does the lower 40C kinnematic viscosity indicate that the Pennzoil fluid far outperforms Valvoline at temps in this range (40C)? Would this be reason enough to prefer it over Valvoline?

2. Why does Pennzoil have such a high Viscosity Index? Is this due to a large dose of VII that will make it prone to shear?

3. Valvoline Synchromesh claims GL-4, while Pennzoil does not. What is Pennzoil missing?
 
I've noticed some differences between these fluids and thought this would be an appropriate place to continue the discussion.

At 40C, Pennzoil KV=41.6 cSt while Valvoline KV=49.9 cSt. In terms of Viscosity Index, Pennzoil VI=208, while Valvoline VI=157. The fluids do, however, have similar pour points and 100C KVs.

1. Does the lower 40C kinnematic viscosity indicate that the Pennzoil fluid far outperforms Valvoline at temps in this range (40C)? Would this be reason enough to prefer it over Valvoline?

No. Just slightly different base oils and additive packages.

2. Why does Pennzoil have such a high Viscosity Index? Is this due to a large dose of VII that will make it prone to shear?

No, not necessarily, each is a slightly different formulation.

3. Valvoline Synchromesh claims GL-4, while Pennzoil does not. What is Pennzoil missing?

Nothing. both Valvoline and Pennzoil synchromesh's have the proper amount of anti-wear chemistry and testing results to offer a GL-4 protection rating.
 
Nothing. both Valvoline and Pennzoil synchromesh's have the proper amount of anti-wear chemistry and testing results to offer a GL-4 protection rating.
Thanks, MolaKule. I wonder, though, why Pennzoil doesn't claim GL-4 on the data sheet if the fluid meets the GL-4 specification. Also, it doesn't matter that the Valvoline Synchromesh is over 8 cSt "thicker" at lower operating temperatures? At 100C, there's only 0.28 cSt difference. Which fluid looks best based on all this data?
 
It is a toss-up. If you live in an area where you have really cold winters the Pennzoil would have a very very minor edge.
 
It is a toss-up. If you live in an area where you have really cold winters the Pennzoil would have a very very minor edge.
Thanks, MolaKule. The low-temp performance made it into Pennzoil's marketing, which also emphasizes high detergent content:
https://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/products/other-oils-fluids-fuel/manual-transmission-fluids-axle-oils/synchromesh-manual-transmission-fluid.html said:
This high quality manual transmission fluid is formulated for good low temperature flow to maintain shift characteristics even after a cold night.
...contains approximately twice the sulfonate detergent levels as current generation PCMO
Any general opinions on the Lubrizol Anglamol 6091 add-pack? The ingredients were listed, so I tried to identify their functions. I've likely misidentified some (which one is the friction modifier?), so feel free to offer corrections.
  • Magnesium sulphonate -- detergent
  • alkenyl amide -- dispersant
  • alkenyl ester sulphide -- seal swell
  • alkenyl phosphite -- anti-wear
  • alkylbenzene -- detergent
  • hecterocyclic ether -- solvent
  • zinc dithiophosphate -- anti-wear
Based on this ingredient list:
1. Is the high detergent content typical of all these MTF fluids (i.e likely contained in the Valvoline Synchromesh also)?
2. How much "seal swelling" does Pennzoil Synchromesh offer compared to other transmission fluids? More than typical?
3. How harsh is the dispersant ingredient on seals?
4. Although not recommended, would Pennzoil Synchromesh mix well with (1) Dex/Merc or (2) synthetic 75W-90 gear oil without adverse effects such as foaming, separation, seal attack, etc.? Would a small dose of 75W-90 even improve anti-wear performance?
 
Any general opinions on the Lubrizol Anglamol 6091 add-pack? The ingredients were listed, so I tried to identify their functions. I've likely misidentified some (which one is the friction modifier?), so feel free to offer corrections.

Its one of many good additive packs that contains Multi-Functional additives.

Dispersants, detergents, anti-wear, oxidation inhibitors, metal inhibitors. and foam inhibitors, make up the general class of additives called stabilizers and deposit control agents, or the DI package. The VII is not considered part of the DI package.

If you guys are interested in the actual chemistry of additives See:


as we have a much better Search Engine now.

  • Magnesium and Calcium sulphonates or carbonates -- In an MTF this is the primary Friction Modifier, not a detergent. Specialized forms of Magnesium, Sodium and Calcium carbonates and sulfonates have been discussed as Friction Modifiers in MTF's and ATF's in various posts. Magnesium, Sodium and Calcium sulfonates and succinimides are used as detergents in engine oils. Since these are multifunnctional additives, they also control acid formation.
  • alkenyl amide -- dispersant - Most likelly 2-aminomethyl4-polyisobutylphenol
  • alkenyl ester sulphide - seal swell; Yes, and is also a secondary anti-wear additive.
  • alkenyl phosphite -- low temperature anti-wear; its most likely an alkenyl, isopropylated phosphate,
  • alkylbenzene --- A Low temperature Base Oil and detergent;
  • hecterocyclic ether -- indeterminate since it depends on the Ether Type and processing; most likely a Corrosion Inhibitor and Metal Deactivator.
  • zinc dithiophosphate -- ZDDP, high temperature anti-wear and secondary anti-oxidant
 
MolaKule, thank you very much for providing these details about the MTF additives. It's interesting that Pennzoil's marketing emphasizes "twice the sulfonate detergent levels as current generation PCMO." Thy go on to make it seem like an MTF needs a lot of detergent to deal with water and other contamination. Unfortunately Valvoline doesn't offer many details about the additives in their Synchromesh product, but they state that it meets GL-4. I like that Pennzoil offers such transparency but still find it odd that they don't apply a GL-4 label, given that this fluid is said to meet that standard. After examining the additives, do you still believe it's a toss-up between Valvoline and Pennzoil? Does the dosage of alkenyl ester sulphide likely suit a wide variety of seals without causing excessive swelling or other issues? I want to avoid any seal problems.
 
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