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Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A #5143196
06/24/19 09:13 PM
06/24/19 09:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,485
Naperville, IL
wwillson Offline OP
Administrator
wwillson  Offline OP
Administrator

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,485
Naperville, IL
Hello BITOG Members:

First off, we would like to thank everyone on the Pennzoil team who has been able to personally work with us the past few years! While we’ve had the opportunity previously to talk to a number of you, we want to open the floor to all of BITOG for some dialogue on some of the forum’s trending topics. This June, select members of the Shell/Pennzoil Technical Team will be responding to inquiries regarding the following topics:

• New motor oil specifications, specifically GF-6
• Low viscosity engine oils, such as Pennzoil Platinum 0W-16

Beginning today with this post, we’ve opened a special thread for all of you to submit your questions to Richard Dixon, Pennzoil Technology Manager and Eric Kalberer, Shell Global Product Application Specialist. Richard has been working on Shell Lubricants Technology for more than 20 years, putting his degree and postdoctoral degree in Chemistry from the University of Edinburgh in Scotland to good use. As the Technology Manager at Shell, Richard has worked to develop both consumer and OEM factory fill engine oils for Shell Helix, Pennzoil and Quaker State. Conversely, Eric joined Shell in January 2018 as a Global Product Application Specialist, utilizing his PhD in Chemistry to be responsible for technical support to automotive OEMs for engine lubricants, driveline lubricants, coolants and greases. Additionally, he represents Shell, participating in the American Petroleum Institute’s Lubricants Standards Group, Auto Oil Advisory Panel, and BOI/VGRA Task Force, among others.

The thread will be open for submissions from 10:00 p.m. ET on Monday, June 24th until 5:00 p.m. ET on Friday, June 28th, after which time, Richard Dixon, Eric Kalberer and our full team of scientists and engineers will work together to provide answers to your questions to be posted on Friday, July 19th.

We are extremely excited for this opportunity, and we have only a few notes:

1. Please use this thread only to submit questions. Members of the team have noted that there have been questions posed in various threads, but please repost the question in this thread to help us make sure we address everything.
2. Please understand that there will be some questions that we will not be able to answer. We cannot divulge any proprietary information and can only speak from our areas of expertise.
3. Our Technical Team will also not be commenting or speculating on the products of our competitors.

Thank you all for your understanding and your enthusiasm – now, let’s hear your questions!

-The Pennzoil Team

Re: Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A [Re: wwillson] #5143213
06/24/19 09:39 PM
06/24/19 09:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,630
America's Dairyland
LotI Offline
LotI  Offline

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,630
America's Dairyland
Do you think low-sulfur gasoline in the US will affect the oil recommendations for older vehicles?

Would it benefit any manufacturers come out and change their specs...like VAG saying to use 504 00 instead of the previous 502 00?


03 Honda Interceptor
11 Kawasaki KLR 650
12 Ford E450
17 VW GTI
Re: Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A [Re: wwillson] #5143231
06/24/19 10:02 PM
06/24/19 10:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,752
Northern Ontario, Canada
Danno Offline
Danno  Offline

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 2,752
Northern Ontario, Canada
How should current UOAs change to better capture composition changes in the GF-6 oils?


2019 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit 5.7L Hemi
2016 Sorento SX V6 AWD
2010 Mazda 3 2.0L
2009 Venza V6 AWD
2013 Sonata 2.4L RIP in write-off crash
Re: Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A [Re: wwillson] #5143245
06/24/19 10:26 PM
06/24/19 10:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 4,658
SE British Columbia, Canada
Snagglefoot Offline
Snagglefoot  Offline

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 4,658
SE British Columbia, Canada
What is the best way to explain to a thick-oil fan how a 0W16 motor oil can protect your engine? smile

Last edited by Snagglefoot; 06/24/19 10:27 PM.

If you want the job done right......do it yourself.
Re: Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A [Re: wwillson] #5143333
06/25/19 12:44 AM
06/25/19 12:44 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 338
Washington
Dylan1303 Offline
Dylan1303  Offline

Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 338
Washington
Will it require reformulation of your plat line up?


12 cruze rs 1.4t 6spd pp 5w30 tuned on 22psi
13 equinox 2.4 awd pp 5w30
Re: Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A [Re: wwillson] #5143415
06/25/19 06:34 AM
06/25/19 06:34 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,398
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
Virtus_Probi  Offline

Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,398
New England
Can any details about the LSPI testing for GF6 be shared with us BITOGers?


2014 Forester XT, 100000 miles
Last Change;
M1 10W30 HM SN+
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A [Re: wwillson] #5143426
06/25/19 06:45 AM
06/25/19 06:45 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,953
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline
wemay  Offline

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,953
Kendall, FL
1. How does GF-6 improve upon GF-5?
2. Is there a best equivalent ACEA spec?


2018 KIA Sportage LX 2.4 AWD:
Now: QSAD 5W-20, PH9688
Next: ST Syn 5W-30, ST9688

2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T:
Now: EDGE 5W-40, OE
Next: M1HM 10W-30, PH9688
Re: Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A [Re: wwillson] #5143520
06/25/19 08:49 AM
06/25/19 08:49 AM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 791
WA
Mad_Hatter Offline
Mad_Hatter  Offline

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 791
WA
I have a normally aspirated, non gdi engine - why should I care about GF6?

How (or will?) gf6a impact drain intervals?

Will all sopus oils at the various price points, meet/carry gf6a?

Re: Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A [Re: wwillson] #5143524
06/25/19 08:59 AM
06/25/19 08:59 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 123
Louisiana
camryrolla Offline
camryrolla  Offline

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 123
Louisiana
When will PUP 0w-16 be available? You should be bringing out PUP 0w-16 first before PP 0w-16.
I have no use for PP since you downgraded the additive package of PP to meet LSPI (reduce Ca and increase Mg). Many Bitogers have the same concerns about this additive downgrade. Since the additive downgrade, I don't even trust PP to go the full 10K OCI on my Camry, which requires 10K OCI.
I have used PUP with great success on my Camry. Are you going to downgrade or finagle around with the PUP additives to meet GF-6? I would hate to switch to M1EP/M1AFE if you downgrade the additives in PUP.


'11 Camry 2.5L 170K mi
'07 Corolla 1.8L 220K mi
Always Fram XG filter.
Re: Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A [Re: wwillson] #5144815
06/26/19 03:27 PM
06/26/19 03:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 16
MI
anthonym6 Offline
anthonym6  Offline

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 16
MI
If CAFE didn't have such a heavy influence on the oil industry and automotive world, what would be the ideal engine oil weight and additive package? Are we sacrificing protection and engine longevity over a small percentage of increased fuel economy? We see many differences in oil weight requirements globally for the same applications.

Re: Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A [Re: wwillson] #5145171
06/26/19 10:25 PM
06/26/19 10:25 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,036
Danville, Indiana
IndyFan Offline
IndyFan  Offline

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,036
Danville, Indiana
What is the difference nowadays between Pennzoil Platinum and Pennzoil Ultra? Didn't Ultra start out with PAO base stocks and now uses GTL, just like Platinum? If so, is there much difference now? I've currently got Pennzoil Ultra 0w20 in my 2018 Jeep Wrangler. Ultra used to be marketed as having significantly better cleaning properties. Now it appears it is marketed toward those who do more performance oriented driving, if I understand the web description correctly.


18 Jeep JLUR Wrangler 3.6 20k
15 Ford Transit 125k, Reman 3.5 @85k
08 Jeep Wrangler 3.8 132k
01 Ford F150 Crew 5.4 85k
99 Mercedes E430 Sport 92k
Re: Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A [Re: wwillson] #5145225
06/27/19 01:29 AM
06/27/19 01:29 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 21,349
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 21,349
PNW
1) Have any test procedures changed that are used to test an oil's wear performance in regards to engine wear limits, or have any changes been made in required GF-6 test sequences as lower oil viscosity such as 0W-16 becomes a more common oil specification by automakers? Wondering if engine wear or any other critical test spec limits are being relaxed as oil viscosity continues to decrease.

2) Most of the technical papers discussed on BITOG show that engine components such as piston rings start to exhibit increased wear when the HTHS viscosity is lower than about 2.3 cP, which is where most 0W-16 oils will be. This leads to the question: As wear protection is decreased from a lower HTHS viscosity factor, what kind of changes in anti-wear additives will be needed to control wear for 0W-16 (or 0W-8 if it hits the market)? I'm assuming these less viscous oils will depend much more on anti-wear additives to control wear compared to a more viscous oil such as 5W-30 or higher.

Re: Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A [Re: wwillson] #5145472
06/27/19 10:52 AM
06/27/19 10:52 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 123
Louisiana
camryrolla Offline
camryrolla  Offline

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 123
Louisiana
Why cater to the LSPI crowd with the new GF-6 spec when Pennzoil should have been working to put out a long drain oil product. M1 is confident that their M1EP as good for 15K OCI and M1AP is good for 20K. Pennzoil is falling behind on their competitors (Amsoil, M1, and QS) in this field and their engineers should get off their behind to work on this, pronto.

Last edited by camryrolla; 06/27/19 11:14 AM.

'11 Camry 2.5L 170K mi
'07 Corolla 1.8L 220K mi
Always Fram XG filter.
Re: Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A [Re: wwillson] #5145674
06/27/19 03:27 PM
06/27/19 03:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 413
Ontario, Canada
newbe46 Offline
newbe46  Offline

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 413
Ontario, Canada
When will a 10W-60 GF-6 be available in the Canadian market?


2003 E46 M3 Convertible
2004 Odyssey EX-L
2004 Impreza TS Wagon
Re: Pennzoil GF-6 and Low Viscosity Engine Oil Q&A [Re: wwillson] #5145726
06/27/19 04:23 PM
06/27/19 04:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 301
NJ
crainholio Offline
crainholio  Offline

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 301
NJ
Will the GF-6 formulation be any improvement over current Pennzoil Dexos 1 Generation 2 formulation in terms of timing chain wear?

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