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Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. #5141919 06/23/19 03:02 PM
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burla Offline OP
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This guys EXPERT opinion is it is the needle bearings on the lifters.

So literally every shop knows about the hemi failure rates. of course keyboard warriors just kick back and say hemi's are great hemi's are great, but the fact is they fail at a huge rate. Guys with hemi's need to look at hearty oils to maybe prolong the time before that thing dies. At least 5w30 as a good strategy. Of course, there aint much you can do if a needle bearing fails. We know for a fact hearty base oil paired with heavy aw/ep additives can end ticks/knocks that random group 3 leave behind, that is a fact. Maybe if you kill the tick you will extend the life dunno, but anyone who tells you to choose an oil that makes your car/truck tick when another oil will allow it not to tick, you should tell them to pound sand.

youtube mechanic explains hemi

Re: Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. [Re: burla] #5141932 06/23/19 03:18 PM
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Chris142 Online Content
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What years are having troubles? My good friend has an 04,2500 with the 5.7 and well over 200k on it with no issues. The guy across the street from my work has an 05,1500 with the 5.7 with about 235k on it. I service that one with proline or Napa 5w20.


02 Wrangler Napa high milage 10w40
87 F250 Valvoline 15w40
07 fjcruiser Car lube plus 10w30
Z400 castrol T 10w40
Can am Maveric edge 5w40
57 case tractor Chevron sae30
Re: Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. [Re: Chris142] #5141936 06/23/19 03:26 PM
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Skippy722 Online Happy
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Originally Posted by Chris142
What years are having troubles? My good friend has an 04,2500 with the 5.7 and well over 200k on it with no issues. The guy across the street from my work has an 05,1500 with the 5.7 with about 235k on it. I service that one with proline or Napa 5w20.


It’s primarily the 2009+ models that I’ve seen, which is when they added variable cam timing.


2016 Chrysler 300S v6
2018 Dodge Grand Caravan GT

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Re: Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. [Re: burla] #5141945 06/23/19 03:38 PM
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demarpaint Offline
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My bet is more a 5W30 oil with more ZDDP would be beneficial. I had this discussion with my Jeep tech buddy when I had my airbag recall.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. [Re: Skippy722] #5141949 06/23/19 03:41 PM
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Chris142 Online Content
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Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by Chris142
What years are having troubles? My good friend has an 04,2500 with the 5.7 and well over 200k on it with no issues. The guy across the street from my work has an 05,1500 with the 5.7 with about 235k on it. I service that one with proline or Napa 5w20.


It’s primarily the 2009+ models that I’ve seen, which is when they added variable cam timing.

Ahhh. Thats still kinda new for us.


02 Wrangler Napa high milage 10w40
87 F250 Valvoline 15w40
07 fjcruiser Car lube plus 10w30
Z400 castrol T 10w40
Can am Maveric edge 5w40
57 case tractor Chevron sae30
Re: Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. [Re: demarpaint] #5141961 06/23/19 03:55 PM
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Mr Nice Offline
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Originally Posted by demarpaint
My bet is more a 5W30 oil with more ZDDP would be beneficial. I had this discussion with my Jeep tech buddy when I had my airbag recall.

Made a 50% mix of Rotella T4 to bring up the ZDDP ?

Zero possibility I’d use 20 wt oil in those engines.

Re: Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. [Re: Mr Nice] #5141989 06/23/19 04:24 PM
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demarpaint Offline
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Originally Posted by Mr Nice
Originally Posted by demarpaint
My bet is more a 5W30 oil with more ZDDP would be beneficial. I had this discussion with my Jeep tech buddy when I had my airbag recall.

Made a 50% mix of Rotella T4 to bring up the ZDDP ?

Zero possibility I’d use 20 wt oil in those engines.

I wouldn't use a 20 grade in it either. Your Rotella mix sounds interesting. I'd tweak the 30 grade with a ZDDP additive as per what my Jeep tech buddy suggested. He got that info from higher up the food chain. Then there are a few other people that know a lot more than I do making the same recommendation. I also heard a good 0W40 with some ZDDP is a good choice too. These failures are not limited to Chrysler only, a lot of these parts are outsourced.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. [Re: burla] #5142008 06/23/19 04:45 PM
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sloinker Offline
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Red Line is the oil for Hemi's. Extend the drain interval a little and the cost isn't as prohibitive. My .02


'16 Tiguan TSI Vaico 5W40
'15 VW Golf TDI Ravenol VMP 5W30
'15 VW Golf Sportwagen TDI VMP 5W30
'14 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.6 Red Line Blue Label 5W20
'64 Plymouth Fury440 Red Line Blue Label 10W40
Re: Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. [Re: burla] #5142341 06/23/19 10:08 PM
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The lifter issue is one of the reasons I got the Maxcare warranty. Sucks that FCA would rather play the odds than fix the issue.


19 Sting-gray GC Trailhawk | 5.7 | Rock Rails | Ridge Grapplers
08 Silver GC SRT8 | CAI | Kooks LT's | Corsa Exhaust | Ported heads | Diablo Toon | H&R Sport Springs
Re: Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. [Re: burla] #5142373 06/23/19 11:10 PM
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Delete

Last edited by Anduril; 06/23/19 11:11 PM.

2015 Nissan Versa Note 1.6/5MT
2012 Toyota Tacoma 2.7/4AT
2007 Toyota Camry 2.4/5AT
2005 Nissan XTerra 4x4 4.0/6MT
2002 Mustang GT Convertible 4.6/5MT
2009 Kawasaki Vulcan 900
2013 Hyosung ST7
Re: Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. [Re: burla] #5142402 06/24/19 12:25 AM
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Needle bearings are a mother for a lot of engines. GM has had some issues with the ones in their rockers. There's a company out there that converts them to bushings for the aggressive cam crowd.

My KTM is a notorious rocker needle bearing eater too.

I was always told by the companies that deal with these issues that moly is the best way to hold off needle bearing drama.


07 Lincoln Navigator M1 0w-40/FU
68 Charger R/T / Supercharged 440 VR1/DBL7349
07 Ram 3500 4x4 / Cummins 6.7 /DBL7349
17 Maserati GranTurismo Cabrio
Re: Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. [Re: burla] #5142405 06/24/19 12:41 AM
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Plenty of people run 5w20 in 5.7L engines without failures or ticks.

Long idles and people running these things like they're Dom Toretto are the main reason why theres such a high failure rate. I understand that sports cars such as the Charger or Challenger are meant to scream and go fast, but not everytime you drive the dang thing, especially in city traffic. You know how many times I see someone go from light to light flooring a challenger? By the time they get to 60mph its already time to stop at the next red light.

Police Cruisers are another example of a severe service issue. Any vehicle idling for 12+ hour shifts on the side of the road is going to have its issues.

It's all how you take care of it, I've seen fleet 2009+ Ram Hemis that get a QSGB 5w20 dump and Hastings filters every 5k go to 300k+ without an issue.

I've also seen 2009+ 300s and Chargers not make it to 100k.

9/10 it's due to neglect, whether it be due to not adhering to severe service schedules, or driving erratically for no reason other than to look cool.

Some of the most popular vehicles with military service members are Chargers, Challengers, Rams, and 300s. Being in the service I wasnt surprised when someones Hemi failed, because most of the time the person was an immature Speedy Gonzalez driving on post where the speed limits what, 35mph tops? They would literally rev the engine up as fast as they could to...35mph...just to stop 3 blocks down at another stoplight/sign.

Edit: people are also fooled by OLMs and never even crack open their OM, the oil fill is recommended to be changed every 6months unless the OLM gets to 0 before hand. I'm almost two months in on this OCI, about 2.5K miles in, and the OLM is only at 90%. If the OLM keeps up at this rate, I could go 25,000mi/20 months on a cheap dino (Formula Shell), but I'm smart enough not to, whereas many people probably wouldnt be and then would wonder what happened when they're stranded.



Last edited by GumbyJarvis; 06/24/19 12:52 AM.
Re: Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. [Re: burla] #5142429 06/24/19 02:32 AM
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Gumby Smart....... good post.


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Keepa' Ya' Pistons, Valves & Injectors Clean
19' Hyundai Santa Fe 2.4 GDI / 20' Kia Soul XLine 2.0 MPI - both Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W30 Mobil1 Filters



Re: Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. [Re: burla] #5142457 06/24/19 04:06 AM
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How does viscosity fix defective needle bearings? More importantly, how is 5W-20 at fault?


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13 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T (Shell RGT 5W-30+OEM)
Re: Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. [Re: burla] #5142474 06/24/19 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by GumbyJarvis
... Police Cruisers are another example of a severe service issue. Any vehicle idling for 12+ hour shifts on the side of the road is going to have its issues.

9/10 it's due to neglect, whether it be due to not adhering to severe service schedules, or driving erratically for no reason other than to look cool.


I respectfully disagree.

After spending 24+ years sitting in GMs, Fords and Chrysler products, I've seen plenty of LEO service in these vehicles. When I started in 1995, the GM Caprice LT1/LT4 engines were fairly stout; never any really big issues with the engines themselves. The Ford CVPIs were like granite; you could not break the drive-train; the 4.6L is a stalwart and there's a reason you see these in taxi service AFTER they'er taken out of police service (can easily run 300k-500k with routine service). The Chargers and Durango's we've had in the last few years? Not up to snuff; not in the least.

In 20 years of sitting in CVPIs, I had only one failure ever; a IAC motor/solenoid went out. Easily replace roadside in 10 minutes; the CoHwy shop foreman drove out to me on a Sunday and replaced it in the field. Other than that, those CVPI cars were the most reliable we ever had. We had a short spat of failed COP ignition failures; coincidentally right after our new leader told us to include pressure washing under-hood as part of our cleaning prep for the monthly vehicle inspection program. After we stopped pressure washing the engines, the COP failures stopped. COPs don't like high-pressure water sprayed at them.

I've been in a Charger during an emergency run; the cam up and ate itself and I had to limp it all the way there. We've lost a lot of cams in our Chargers; we're a mid-sized agency. Our Durangos eat up the 8-spd trannies fairly quickly. We've had water pumps fail way too soon. We've had two officers now locked out of their cars because the body-control computers refused to recognize the key fobs upon approach; not a good thing when you're trying to get to an emergency call!

Our agency sees good routine service for it's vehicles with bulk drum oil and jobber filters. The 4.6L engines never had internal lube-related issues in the 20 years we drove them. They got OFCIs every 5k miles or so; no more than 6k miles. Your comment that "Any vehicle idling for 12+ hour shifts on the side of the road is going to have its issues" is patently incorrect; the 4.6L engines never presented issues related to it's severe use or service factor. The old GM LT1/LT4 engines never had issues either. We've had 6.0L GMs in some Tahoe's; no issues there. Even our Taurus 3.5L engines (n/a; not EB) don't have severe service issues. It's just the Hemi's; they cannot handle the severe duty, even with decent routine service.

The above is all true and factual, if not anecdotal. However, what I'm going to say next is my OPINION ...

The Chrysler products are like the hot blonde chick in high-school. They're fast, good looking, and a hoot to run around with for a while. But eventually, sooner rather than later, she's going to become high-maintenance and not someone you'd want to spend a lot of time with. She'll cost you a lot of money and leave you stranded when you can least afford it. Yes - that's a stereotypical POV that is derogatory. But the real question is this .... Did I offend the blondes, or the Chargers, more?


The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
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