Recent Topics
Emission Readiness monitors
by bowlofturtle - 09/19/19 10:12 PM
Thoughts on the GM strike?
by Vern_in_IL - 09/19/19 09:37 PM
tropical storm imelda blows up everynight?
by motor_oil_madman - 09/19/19 09:12 PM
2017 Corvette / Mobil 1 ESP 0w40 / 5.2k mi
by dparm - 09/19/19 08:57 PM
2019 Lexus UX 250h
by Direct_Rejection - 09/19/19 08:56 PM
Gas theft
by tahoe_hybrid - 09/19/19 08:04 PM
Aisin 09G transmission fluid?
by sloinker - 09/19/19 07:44 PM
Oil for 2005 BMW X3
by Nyquist - 09/19/19 07:34 PM
Golden Eagles Take Down Deer and Wolves
by buster - 09/19/19 07:31 PM
P21S Windshield Washer Booster
by mclasser - 09/19/19 06:30 PM
Why warm up oil before a UOA sample is taken?
by paulri - 09/19/19 06:21 PM
Selling the 97 Camry V6 again
by PandaBear - 09/19/19 05:15 PM
FRAM Orange Cans
by KevGuy - 09/19/19 05:13 PM
Colt Ceases Civilian AR-15 Production
by billt460 - 09/19/19 04:50 PM
Amsoil “synthetic technology”
by spiderbypass - 09/19/19 03:15 PM
Oil Change Special @ Firestone
by Mad_Hatter - 09/19/19 01:05 PM
Newest Members
Srfridd, V1313, Ecan89, ProBest, Zolton
69333 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
86 registered members (anonobomber, aquariuscsm, alchargo, ATex7239, ACC, ammolab, 11 invisible), 1,574 guests, and 22 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics294,800
Posts5,066,841
Members69,333
Most Online3,532
Jul 30th, 2019
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 5 1 2 3 5
Re: Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. [Re: Triple_Se7en] #5142475 06/24/19 06:05 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,210
GumbyJarvis Offline
Offline
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,210
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Gumby Smart....... good post.



To sum it up, the average person should stick to 3k/3m ocis or whatever is severe service according to the OM. I've never heard of a vehicle other than a lemon or known bad design* have mechanical failures if the severe service schedules are followed.

*The modern 5.7L Hemi is almost 20 years old, I'm sure it wouldnt have lasted that long in production if it was a generally "known bad design"

If you do not do UOAs and get an idea of your engine, but want it to last, go with severe service and a OEM spec oil. Alot of old cars on the road today, especially American cars, have lasted because of that.

A 5.7L or any Chrysler isnt a Honda or Toyota that can run on anything and have even the slightest neglect. A Chrysler product needs love, it needs attention.

Mopars, in my opinion, are best suited for those who love to get dirty, not for those who rely on quickie lubes, and Walmart service departments. Just my two cents.


2018 RAM 1500 SLT 5.7L
Schaeffers 5w20 - Carquest Red


Disabled US Army Vet
OEF 2013-2014
Re: Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. [Re: burla] #5142523 06/24/19 07:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,080
J
JHZR2 Offline
Global Moderator
Offline
Global Moderator
J
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,080
OP lost me at group III. Probably something to be said about heavier viscosity and adds as a band aid if need be, but to perpetuate wife’s tales Is a stretch.

Re: Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. [Re: DoubleWasp] #5142551 06/24/19 08:22 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,385
S
supton Offline
Offline
S
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 14,385
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
Needle bearings are a mother for a lot of engines. GM has had some issues with the ones in their rockers. There's a company out there that converts them to bushings for the aggressive cam crowd.

My KTM is a notorious rocker needle bearing eater too.

I was always told by the companies that deal with these issues that moly is the best way to hold off needle bearing drama.

Interesting... I remember being young and reading the car mags and it seemed roller rockers were the way to go (on SBC's and SBF's). I guess they have high point of contact loading? Lower losses but more severe duty, needs better materials I guess.

is this Hemi tick the same problem as what the Pentastar tick is, and is it as hard to repair? I want to say, in the threads for the Pentastar, it's "just replace the follower" but on Hemi's it more often means a trashed cam too?


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 189k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 153k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 211k, his
Re: Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. [Re: burla] #5142588 06/24/19 09:01 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,771
DoubleWasp Offline
Offline
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,771
I am in no way saying it's a needle bearing problem in general. Might be one of improperly spec'd or treated bearings. Or maybe they need to be of substantial quality in the first place when used in a valve train.

I'm just saying it does happen. Companies like Jesel seem to be able to make needle bearings that can survive nuclear war.


07 Lincoln Navigator M1 0w-40/FU
68 Charger R/T / Supercharged 440 VR1/DBL7349
07 Ram 3500 4x4 / Cummins 6.7 /DBL7349
17 Maserati GranTurismo Cabrio
Re: Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. [Re: burla] #5142637 06/24/19 10:00 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 41
V
Vigg Offline
Offline
V
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 41
I have a 2014 Jeep GC with the 5.7 Hemi and its never given me any trouble. Currently have around 71K miles on it. I don’t have the "Hemi tick" and the motor is very quiet. The only mods I have are a drop in AFE dry filter and an Elite Catch can (which I dump twice between each oil change). The only oil that’s been in it is PP in either 5w20 or 0w20 flavor. I change the oil between 5k-7k miles. Started changing more at the 7K mark after performing some UOA.

I definitely don't baby it and it sees full throttle romps every other day. I get between 13-15 in town if that’s any indication how I drive.

Not sure what the reason is when people do have issues. Not sure if it’s a lack of maintenance or just bad luck of the draw. I just wanted to post some UOA of 20 weight oil to show its possible to have good wear numbers and a Hemi not granade using it.

I will say I want to run PP 5w30 next. I got 4 jugs of PP 0w20 on a walmart closeout for $11 a pop and I just used the last of it. I will perfom a UOA to see how it looks but that wont be for probably 9 months.



[Linked Image]

Re: Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. [Re: dnewton3] #5142744 06/24/19 12:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 855
S
Sunnyinhollister Online Content
Online Content
S
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 855
Originally Posted by dnewton3
Originally Posted by GumbyJarvis
... Police Cruisers are another example of a severe service issue. Any vehicle idling for 12+ hour shifts on the side of the road is going to have its issues.

9/10 it's due to neglect, whether it be due to not adhering to severe service schedules, or driving erratically for no reason other than to look cool.


I respectfully disagree.

After spending 24+ years sitting in GMs, Fords and Chrysler products, I've seen plenty of LEO service in these vehicles. When I started in 1995, the GM Caprice LT1/LT4 engines were fairly stout; never any really big issues with the engines themselves. The Ford CVPIs were like granite; you could not break the drive-train; the 4.6L is a stalwart and there's a reason you see these in taxi service AFTER they'er taken out of police service (can easily run 300k-500k with routine service). The Chargers and Durango's we've had in the last few years? Not up to snuff; not in the least.

In 20 years of sitting in CVPIs, I had only one failure ever; a IAC motor/solenoid went out. Easily replace roadside in 10 minutes; the CoHwy shop foreman drove out to me on a Sunday and replaced it in the field. Other than that, those CVPI cars were the most reliable we ever had. We had a short spat of failed COP ignition failures; coincidentally right after our new leader told us to include pressure washing under-hood as part of our cleaning prep for the monthly vehicle inspection program. After we stopped pressure washing the engines, the COP failures stopped. COPs don't like high-pressure water sprayed at them.

I've been in a Charger during an emergency run; the cam up and ate itself and I had to limp it all the way there. We've lost a lot of cams in our Chargers; we're a mid-sized agency. Our Durangos eat up the 8-spd trannies fairly quickly. We've had water pumps fail way too soon. We've had two officers now locked out of their cars because the body-control computers refused to recognize the key fobs upon approach; not a good thing when you're trying to get to an emergency call!

Our agency sees good routine service for it's vehicles with bulk drum oil and jobber filters. The 4.6L engines never had internal lube-related issues in the 20 years we drove them. They got OFCIs every 5k miles or so; no more than 6k miles. Your comment that "Any vehicle idling for 12+ hour shifts on the side of the road is going to have its issues" is patently incorrect; the 4.6L engines never presented issues related to it's severe use or service factor. The old GM LT1/LT4 engines never had issues either. We've had 6.0L GMs in some Tahoe's; no issues there. Even our Taurus 3.5L engines (n/a; not EB) don't have severe service issues. It's just the Hemi's; they cannot handle the severe duty, even with decent routine service.

The above is all true and factual, if not anecdotal. However, what I'm going to say next is my OPINION ...

The Chrysler products are like the hot blonde chick in high-school. They're fast, good looking, and a hoot to run around with for a while. But eventually, sooner rather than later, she's going to become high-maintenance and not someone you'd want to spend a lot of time with. She'll cost you a lot of money and leave you stranded when you can least afford it. Yes - that's a stereotypical POV that is derogatory. But the real question is this .... Did I offend the blondes, or the Chargers, more?


Thanks for the insight. It's a shame Chrysler has not stepped up to the plate on this. I guess they just like the profit from the out of warranty work?? Who knows. My next oil change will probably be with a 5W30 and I still have some MOS2 left on the shelf.


2017 Ram 1500 Regular Cab 4x2 5.7L 8spd
2017 Chevy Bolt
2018 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk
2004 Toyota Highlander AWD
Re: Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. [Re: burla] #5142987 06/24/19 04:47 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 717
G
Greg L Offline
Offline
G
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 717
Watching this thread & most interested.

I don't really follow RAM forums, but my take away on the 5.7 Hemi (mine is a 2011 with MDS) is that I will keep it in 'tow mode' around town...in order to temporarily disable the MDS.


Currently have 158k miles on the engine and no issues.

Will most likely start using 5w30 in summer with occasional small doses of zinc additive. My county doesn't care about smog/catalytic.


Only time I plan on using MDS (in eco-mode) will be on long highway trips, if that makes it sound more logical (?).


GL


1951 GMC 1/2 Ton 270ci
2008 Jeep Compass 2.4
2010 Toyota Prius 1.8
2011 Dodge Ram 1500, 5.7 Hemi

Re: Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. [Re: DoubleWasp] #5143198 06/24/19 09:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,578
C
clinebarger Online Content
Online Content
C
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,578
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
I am in no way saying it's a needle bearing problem in general. Might be one of improperly spec'd or treated bearings. Or maybe they need to be of substantial quality in the first place when used in a valve train.

I'm just saying it does happen. Companies like Jesel seem to be able to make needle bearings that can survive nuclear war.


The Hemi cam lobe failure rates seems to be accelerating now that the '09/'10/'11 models are getting over 100,000 miles. I posted some pics of a failure @ 3 months ago.......I've done 7 cam/lifter replacements since!!! All being 5.7L VVT/MDS using SADI cam cores.

I'm about convinced this failure begins as Spalling of the Camshaft Lobe Surface from surface fatigue caused by inadequate work surface hardening.
Other lobes show small amounts of Spalling but haven't entered failure mode yet.....The roller axle bearings show no signs of failure on those lobes.

As everyone of these lobes/lifters that do fail completely tend to be driven for hundreds if not thousands of miles while the owner either ignores the tick, Or Sticks his head in the sand thinking boutique will fix a mechanical issue. Then when a full blown misfire materializes.....They install Coils, Spark Plugs, Injectors.
It's hard if not impossible to make a accurate analysis of the failure when all the needles fall out after being subjected to so much cast iron debris contamination then ran through a spinning crankshaft on their way to the oil pan.

Overkill made a very compelling case for loss of valve control because of weak valve springs.....Launching the lifter off the cam lobe....Then crashing back down on the lobe. Which in my opinion could cause surface fatigue of the cam lobe surface, Especially on a SADI cam core.


Recently I diagnosed a interesting roller lifter failure......2013 Chevy Silverado 4.8L with VVT. It had a loud Squeak that was very close in interval to a lifter/rocker arm tick (Camshaft Speed)
No misfires or other secondary indicators!

A Roller on one of the Lifters had spalled, Caused a flat spot in the roller, & was sliding across the cam lobe.....I tore the lifter apart & found no issues with the axle needle bearings!
This issue was caught early enough that the camshaft which is 5150 billet steel just needed a polish of that lobe & was put back into service with 16 new LS7 lifters.....Pictures.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/U341E
2000 Toyota Avalon 1MZ-FE/A541E
Re: Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. [Re: dnewton3] #5143211 06/24/19 09:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,627
K
Kruse Online Content
Online Content
K
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,627
Originally Posted by dnewton3
. The Ford CVPIs were like granite;



My niece was a state trooper for many years. (She now teaches class for incoming state troopers, so she's no longer in a vehicle all day) She drove the Crown Vic for many years and told me they were extremely reliable. After the Crown Vic became passé, they started to purchase Chargers. My niece was actually one of the last troopers to get issued a Crown Vic and she wanted so bad to get a Charger. (Because the Crown Vic was a grandma's car is what she said) Law enforcement soon found out that the Chargers were in the shop far more than the Crown Vics, even though the Chargers did have a higher top end.
I reported the same thing years ago on this site and was chastised by the Mopar fans back then.

Last edited by Kruse; 06/24/19 09:38 PM.
Re: Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. [Re: burla] #5146899 06/29/19 07:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 188
E
Exhaustgases Offline
Offline
E
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 188
Its all very funny stuff, well unless you own something that it happens to. I just find it so strange that things made now, just don't last like they did in the old days.
I first question the country of origin of the failed parts. And then next the modern computer aged engineering. This is all stuff that was worked out and proven 50 plus years ago.

Re: Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. [Re: Exhaustgases] #5146907 06/29/19 07:32 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,131
I
IndyFan Offline
Offline
I
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,131
Originally Posted by Exhaustgases
Its all very funny stuff, well unless you own something that it happens to. I just find it so strange that things made now, just don't last like they did in the old days.
I first question the country of origin of the failed parts. And then next the modern computer aged engineering. This is all stuff that was worked out and proven 50 plus years ago.


Really? There's a thread going strong right now about how the average car in the US is a record 11.8 years old. I'm not sure how that jibes with the old "they don't make 'em like they used to" thing.


18 Jeep JLUR Wrangler 3.6 22k
15 Ford Transit 125k, Reman 3.5 @85k
17 Jeep Renegade 2.4 21k
08 Jeep Wrangler 3.8 134k
04 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.7 105k
99 Mercedes E430 Sport 92k
Re: Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. [Re: IndyFan] #5146929 06/29/19 08:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,337
S
Skippy722 Online Content
Online Content
S
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,337
Originally Posted by IndyFan
Originally Posted by Exhaustgases
Its all very funny stuff, well unless you own something that it happens to. I just find it so strange that things made now, just don't last like they did in the old days.
I first question the country of origin of the failed parts. And then next the modern computer aged engineering. This is all stuff that was worked out and proven 50 plus years ago.


Really? There's a thread going strong right now about how the average car in the US is a record 11.8 years old. I'm not sure how that jibes with the old "they don't make 'em like they used to" thing.


Exactly. Cars used to be worn out and tired by 100k, now most will hit that and keep going.


2016 Chrysler 300S v6
2018 Dodge Grand Caravan GT

Slight Mopar obsession
Re: Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. [Re: Kruse] #5147760 06/30/19 10:29 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,197
S
SLO_Town Offline
Offline
S
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,197
Originally Posted by Kruse
Originally Posted by dnewton3
. The Ford CVPIs were like granite;



My niece was a state trooper for many years. (She now teaches class for incoming state troopers, so she's no longer in a vehicle all day) She drove the Crown Vic for many years and told me they were extremely reliable. After the Crown Vic became passé, they started to purchase Chargers. My niece was actually one of the last troopers to get issued a Crown Vic and she wanted so bad to get a Charger. (Because the Crown Vic was a grandma's car is what she said) Law enforcement soon found out that the Chargers were in the shop far more than the Crown Vics, even though the Chargers did have a higher top end.
I reported the same thing years ago on this site and was chastised by the Mopar fans back then.

My oldest son is a police officer. He has told me the exact same thing - the Crown Vics were indestructible and EVERY SINGLE ONE of the department’s Chargers had horrible valve train tick and clatter, even the low mileage ones.

Scott


03 BMW E46 330Ci ZSP (BMW TPT 5W-30)
10 Honda Element SC (Kendall GT1 Max 5W-30)
11 BMW E90 328i M-Sport (BMW TPT 5W-30)
16 VW Passat VR6 3.6L SEL Premium (Euro Castrol 0W-40)
Re: Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. [Re: burla] #5148058 06/30/19 05:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,006
T
ted s Offline
Offline
T
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,006
do one qualified to have such an opinion would post on you tube

Re: Good lubrication and still Hemi's are failing. [Re: burla] #5148668 07/01/19 02:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 188
E
Exhaustgases Offline
Offline
E
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 188
If you look around at the various automotive sites, you will see there are a lot of cars/ engines dying at under 100k miles, due to things like this thread is about as well as inferior materials being used or just plain bad design.
And even like the large over the road trucks now that are having many problems, all or most of it goes back to the wonderful regulations and requirements that remove / take away something that helped the longevity of these parts or require something that was never used in the past. So sure the cars can last and some don't, that is why there are recalls that is if your lucky , usually the consumer has to eat it.
Study the CVT issue some may last and many don't that is why one outfit had to increase their warranty to 10 years. So see that helps that 11 year deal.

Page 2 of 5 1 2 3 5
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™