Why is Mobil 1 ESP Formula is not SN PLUS?

[Patman]

This is the exact oil I'm running in my Corvette and it doesn't bother me one bit that it doesn't have SN+. Just look at the long list of certifications that it does have, it's pretty clear this is a great oil! And yes, they have reformulated it now, but I'm lucky enough to still have 29L of this version on hand, so I'm good for about 4 more years.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
As far as I know, currently there is no Euro (ACEA) oil that has SN PLUS or any other LSPI-protection certification.


Originally Posted by Bjornviken
CASTROL EDGE 5W-30 M

ACEA C3, C2
API SN Plus
BMW Longlife-04
MB-Approval 229.31/ 229.51/ 229.52


I don't see SN Plus as being mutually exclusive with current ACEA specs, they just need to start making them, or rather more of them, as some have already appeared.

 

[jbutch]

I bought the last 5 liters my local CT had and it doesn't even mention SN.

They had what appeared to be an older bottle and that one said it was SN certified (I didn't take that one since it looked like it had leaked).

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by Bjornviken
CASTROL EDGE 5W-30 M

ACEA C3, C2
API SN Plus
BMW Longlife-04
MB-Approval 229.31/ 229.51/ 229.52

Ah, thanks! That's the first thick (HTHS viscosity 3.5 cP or greater) Euro SN PLUS I've seen. Of course, there have been many SN PLUS A5/B5 oils from the beginning.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by SR5
I don't see SN Plus as being mutually exclusive with current ACEA specs, they just need to start making them, or rather more of them, as some have already appeared.

Yes, it's a matter of the additive companies making C3 or A3/B4 additive packages that are also SN PLUS. Normally, they don't update their additive packages unless they need to but it's good to see some are doing so now. It could be because ACEA 2018 is coming in mid-2020 and they are preparing to update to that and including SP/SN PLUS as part of it.

 

[Bjornviken]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by Bjornviken
CASTROL EDGE 5W-30 M

ACEA C3, C2
API SN Plus
BMW Longlife-04
MB-Approval 229.31/ 229.51/ 229.52

Ah, thanks! That's the first thick (HTHS viscosity 3.5 cP or greater) Euro SN PLUS I've seen. Of course, there have been many SN PLUS A5/B5 oils from the beginning.


no problems

. i think its one of the first acea c3 oil that have the api sn+

 

[John344]

Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by ChrisD46
*What about Pennzoil Platinum Euro L ?


Perhaps he cannot get Pennzoil in Oman?


Yeah, It's really hard to find it here and you can't find it anywhere. Most of the oils that we have are either made in Oman or UAE which I really don't know if they are the exact same as the ones made in the USA or France.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by John344
Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by ChrisD46
*What about Pennzoil Platinum Euro L ?

Perhaps he cannot get Pennzoil in Oman?

Yeah, It's really hard to find it here and you can't find it anywhere. Most of the oils that we have are either made in Oman or UAE which I really don't know if they are the exact same as the ones made in the USA or France.

I think Shell brands their oils Pennzoil only in the US.

Elsewhere in the world, Shell brands their oils Shell Helix and there is a plethora of them. Click the "+" sign on Shell Helix Ultra:

https://www.shell.com/motorist/oils-lubricants/helix-for-cars/helix-fully-synthetic.html

In any case you have two great Mobil 1 oils available to you and suitable to your engine, and choose the one according to the cons and pros I explained in my previous post. If you care about the GDI intake-valve deposits, go with a VW 504.00 certified oil.

 

[John344]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by John344
Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by ChrisD46
*What about Pennzoil Platinum Euro L ?

Perhaps he cannot get Pennzoil in Oman?

Yeah, It's really hard to find it here and you can't find it anywhere. Most of the oils that we have are either made in Oman or UAE which I really don't know if they are the exact same as the ones made in the USA or France.

I think Shell brands their oils Pennzoil only in the US.

Elsewhere in the world, Shell brands their oils Shell Helix and there is a plethora of them. Click the "+" sign on Shell Helix Ultra:

https://www.shell.com/motorist/oils-lubricants/helix-for-cars/helix-fully-synthetic.html

In any case you have two great Mobil 1 oils available to you and suitable to your engine, and choose the one according to the cons and pros I explained in my previous post. If you care about the GDI intake-valve deposits, go with a VW 504.00 certified oil.



Thank you for all the info and details, I think I will go with the Mobil 1 ESP Formula. I think the SHELL Helix Ultra is also licensed to Mopar SAE 5W-20, they are the same.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by John344
Thank you for all the info and details, I think I will go with the Mobil 1 ESP Formula.

Great choice!

It has VW 504.00; so, it passes the VW GDI engine test for intake-valve deposits (according to the measured weights of the deposits on the intake valves).

It's also simultaneously ACEA C2 and C3. ACEA C2 allows thinner oils as it has a higher criteria for fuel economy. Since this oil is also meeting ACEA C2, it means it has better fuel economy than a typical thicker C3 oil and you won't see a large difference in the fuel economy in comparison to thinner oils. That's probably thanks to the Infineum organic friction modifier and use of some ester in the base oil.

In other words you get the best of both worlds.

 

[edyvw]

Do not bother around API SN+ in Euro oils. Those manufacturers specifications far exceed anything API.

 

[John344]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by John344
Thank you for all the info and details, I think I will go with the Mobil 1 ESP Formula.

Great choice!

It has VW 504.00; so, it passes the VW GDI engine test for intake-valve deposits (according to the measured weights of the deposits on the intake valves).

It's also simultaneously ACEA C2 and C3. ACEA C2 allows thinner oils as it has a higher criteria for fuel economy. Since this oil is also meeting ACEA C2, it means it has better fuel economy than a typical thicker C3 oil and you won't see a large difference in the fuel economy in comparison to thinner oils. That's probably thanks to the Infineum organic friction modifier and use of some ester in the base oil.

In other words you get the best of both worlds.



My local store told me that they have Mobil 0W-40 selling for the same price as 5W-30 if I'm interested. My manual says have 5W-30 & 5w-40 as options. Should I consider 0W-40?

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by John344
My local store told me that they have Mobil 0W-40 selling for the same price as 5W-30 if I'm interested. My manual says have 5W-30 & 5w-40 as options. Should I consider 0W-40?

Your owner's manual recommends practically any oil.

Avoid A3/B4 full-SAPS oils in GDI engines if you want to keep the intake-valve deposits low. More oil ash = more intake-valve deposits = more service trips to your dealer = more $$$$ spent.

VW 504.00 is your best friend, as it has a GDI engine test for intake-valve deposits. Otherwise, a generic C2 or C3 (mid-SAPS) oil or a generic A5/B5 oil with sulphated ash 0.8% or lower (also considered mid-SAPS at that sulphated-ash level) is OK.

M1 ESP Formula 5W-30 is actually as thick as M1 FS (full-SAPS) 0W-40 anyway (both have HTHS viscosity = 3.6 cP, ESP perhaps has 3.5 cP). On top of that, chances are that the base oil for the ESP is thicker and you get overall better wear protection with the ESP.

So, ESP is a win - win over FS in almost any scenario, except in severely extended oil-change intervals, where the high initial TBN (high detergent content) of the full-SAPS oil would help.

 

[ChrisD46]

Gokhan - Regarding this statement : "VW 504.00 is your best friend, as it has a GDI engine test for intake-valve deposits". *So , for my '17 Sonata GDI 2.4L you are suggesting a 5W30 synthetic oil which meets VW 504.00 spec. would be ideal and perhaps better for a GDI engine than say a D1 / Gen 2 SN+ synthetic 5W30 ? I'm interested in reducing factors which lead to GDI intake valve deposits for OCI's of less than 5,000 mile .

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Chris

The three brands you are currently using in your signature all clean your engine / reduce deposits, as does Castrol Edge. Timing chain and lspi protection also.
The majority of VWs I see on the road the past decade blow blue smoke. So I'm not a follower of anything in oil that they recommend.

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Chris

The three brands you are currently using in your signature all clean your engine / reduce deposits, as does Castrol Edge. Timing chain and lspi protection also.
The majority of VWs I see on the road the past decade blow blue smoke. So I'm not a follower of anything in oil that they recommend.


So let me get this straight, you won't recommend Mobil 1 ESP Formula because it has the VW 504.00 certification and so you think that's going to cause his engine to burn oil?

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
The majority of VWs I see on the road the past decade blow blue smoke. So I'm not a follower of anything in oil that they recommend.

Where do you come up with this crap?

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by ChrisD46
Gokhan - Regarding this statement : "VW 504.00 is your best friend, as it has a GDI engine test for intake-valve deposits". *So , for my '17 Sonata GDI 2.4L you are suggesting a 5W30 synthetic oil which meets VW 504.00 spec. would be ideal and perhaps better for a GDI engine than say a D1 / Gen 2 SN+ synthetic 5W30 ? I'm interested in reducing factors which lead to GDI intake valve deposits for OCI's of less than 5,000 mile.

Hi Chris,

The oils you are running are all great oils. I believe they all have about 0.8% sulfated ash (SA) and they all have excellent base oils.

Yes, VW 504.00 ensures low SA and excellent base oil because it has an engine test for intake-valve deposits (IVD). However, just because an oil isn't tested for IVD with VW 504.00 doesn't mean it wouldn't pass this test or it would perform worse than an oil that passed it. It would be unknown how well it would do in this test.

Nevertheless, since the oils you are running are all excellent and you can obtain them cheaply, I would say stick with them.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Do not bother around API SN+ in Euro oils. Those manufacturers specifications far exceed anything API.

My issue with the Euro specs is that they had not addressed LSPI yet...I understand this is coming in the future with A7/A8 (or something like that) and other standards.
I suspect that A3/B4 oils are likely to be OK for LSPI as they have high ZDDP...but I don't know for sure that is really the case.
I take LSPI seriously because my car was actually recalled for it...

I am sticking with d1G2/SN+ for now until the other standards catch up...I was happy to find M1 10W30 HM is now SN+ as well as HTHS=3.5, although it's sad to think my "new" FXT is a high mileage car already...
:^(

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted by edyvw
Do not bother around API SN+ in Euro oils. Those manufacturers specifications far exceed anything API.

My issue with the Euro specs is that they had not addressed LSPI yet...I understand this is coming in the future with A7/A8 (or something like that) and other standards.
I suspect that A3/B4 oils are likely to be OK for LSPI as they have high ZDDP...but I don't know for sure that is really the case.
I take LSPI seriously because my car was actually recalled for it...

I am sticking with d1G2/SN+ for now until the other standards catch up...I was happy to find M1 10W30 HM is now SN+ as well as HTHS=3.5, although it's sad to think my "new" FXT is a high mileage car already...
:^(

Mostly bcs Euro engines do not have issues with LSPI. If Mercedes turbo engines had an issue with LSPI, it would be addressed with internal specification. ACEA is irrelevant here and is not driver of what MB, BMW or VW will recommend.
Reason why ACEA is bringing LSPI test is Asian manufacturers that offer their turbo engines on European market (as that market will not tolerate V6 applications like NA market). Still, just because ACEA will address it, does not mean MB for example will fallow that.
This is where it is clear what means catching up with technology. Euro mfg are using small trubo's for more than two decades. As far as I know, Subaru does not have LSPI issue too (correct me if I am wrong though. I would not expect XT to have LSPI issue considering Subaru's experience with turbo applications, but you never know). You cannot jump into "downsizing" race one day and expect you will perform same as others who are in it for 20+ years. It is not working that way.