Dexos2 for GTDI engines (EcoBoost, GM, etc)

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Originally Posted by dailydriver
….
AGREED!
01.gif

I still think that for a summer time OCI, in my specific app (marginal factory radiator/aftermarket front skid plate), the D1G2 Ravenol DXG 5W-30 (3.1 HTHSV) I could use would be too thin, and heat shear/possibly fuel dilute down to a 2.6 or less HTHSV.
So I went with the low(ish) SA (0.8), 6.2 NOACK, but ~3.7 HTHSV Dexos 2 REP 5W-30 choice instead, despite Virtus_Probi's post above.
wink.gif



Assuming the VOA I found is still accurate, I think the REP is actually a pretty good choice for a DIT engine.

https://oil-club.de/index.php?thread/2849-ravenol-rep-5w-30/

The calcium level is a bit higher than what we see in typical d1G2 formulations (maybe 1100-1300 ppm), but it is still quite a modest dose,
Kind of reminds me of the M1 5W30 ESP I ran a while ago with the very low Noack loss and minimal amount of magnesium...unlike that M1, the REP has a big dose of tungsten. Interesting!

I tried to order some d1G2 DXG a while ago, but got the d1 stuff instead...no big deal for me as my money was refunded promptly and I just had to take a short drive to UPS to drop off the return package.
I would have no problem running the latest DXG or the REP from that VOA in my car....honestly don't care to pay for them at this point, but they do have some really outstanding properties.
 
Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by dave1251
A lot of overthinking on this forum using a DEXOS 2 in a DEXOS 1 is not needed nor can anyone prove it would prolong engine life.


There really isn't a lot of proof of too many things in life, sometimes you just gotta trust that you've made the right decision based on your gut (and some research)

For example, I have no proof that using a dexos2 5w30 in my Corvette instead of a dexos1 5w30 is going to prolong it's engine's life, but I'm still pretty confident that I made the right choice.



Well said Patman
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by dave1251
A lot of overthinking on this forum using a DEXOS 2 in a DEXOS 1 is not needed nor can anyone prove it would prolong engine life.


There really isn't a lot of proof of too many things in life, sometimes you just gotta trust that you've made the right decision based on your gut (and some research)

For example, I have no proof that using a dexos2 5w30 in my Corvette instead of a dexos1 5w30 is going to prolong it's engine's life, but I'm still pretty confident that I made the right choice.


I go with my gut and buy products that meet a specification that is called-out in the owners manual.
 
Originally Posted by KevinP


I go with my gut and buy products that meet a specification that is called-out in the owners manual.


But it certainly won't hurt to buy a product that not only meets the specifications for your car but for a lot of other cars too. For example, I feel very confident about the quality of Mobil 1 ESP Formula because it has so many more certifications than a lot of other oils, including the dexos1 M1 5w30 that most Corvette owners gravitate towards. Having those extra certifications definitely counts for something, especially since I'm planning on keeping the car a very long time and not trading it in before 100k.

There seems to be a new wave of BITOGers on here that just subscribe to the philosophy that any oil is "good enough". What happened to the days when people yearned for not just good enough, but for something much better? It seems like we have a lot less oil nuts on here these days. It's kinda sad
21.gif
 
What happened to the days when people yearned for not just good enough, but for something much better?

With the oils that are on the market today I don't think there are too many available that are "much Better". Most oils are now meeting the SN+, D1G2, or other stringent specs.

I bet just 5 or 10 years ago todays Super Tech would have been considered "much better" than a lot of oils. That field has shrunk IMHO because of the quality oils available at reasonable costs today.

Curious what would be considered "much better" today than most oils and how many oils would meet that, and still be readily available and be under $25.00 or so per 5 quarts?
 
There are still a lot of oils on the market today that can be considered much better, specifically anything that passes the more stringent tests to qualify for Porsche A40, or any of the Mercedes Benz specs, VW specs, or even simply being dexos2 instead of dexos1.

My point is that with direct injection (and especially when combined with turbocharging) you can't just assume that every oil is going to give you the same results long term. What's good enough for the first 100k might not be good enough beyond that. Even though the oil won't cause you an outright failure, choosing a better oil could be the difference between having a clean engine vs a dirty one. (or cleaner intake valves compared to carboned up ones) Or an engine that burns oil compared to one that doesn't.

And no, unfortunately you probably won't find a lot of these better oils priced at under $25 for 5 quarts, nor will you find them at Walmart.


I guess my main point is that if you care for your new DI vehicle and plan on keeping it a long time, don't just assume that any oil meeting the specs will give you long term results. I think it's better to err on the side of overkill.
 
Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by KevinP


I go with my gut and buy products that meet a specification that is called-out in the owners manual.


But it certainly won't hurt to buy a product that not only meets the specifications for your car but for a lot of other cars too. For example, I feel very confident about the quality of Mobil 1 ESP Formula because it has so many more certifications than a lot of other oils, including the dexos1 M1 5w30 that most Corvette owners gravitate towards. Having those extra certifications definitely counts for something, especially since I'm planning on keeping the car a very long time and not trading it in before 100k.

There seems to be a new wave of BITOGers on here that just subscribe to the philosophy that any oil is "good enough". What happened to the days when people yearned for not just good enough, but for something much better? It seems like we have a lot less oil nuts on here these days. It's kinda sad
21.gif



I think the issue is that the terms thrown around are vague, the benefits unconfirmed, and the marketing of many products influences the thoughts of even the well informed. Since there is a sea of disinformation I choose to stick with standards as recommended by the parties with the most knowledge of my vehicle and with the most interest in it running well for a long period of time. But I'm not a Nazi... if someone wants to buy a more expensive oil I believe in free-will. Go for it! :)
 
Originally Posted by ls973800
What happened to the days when people yearned for not just good enough, but for something much better?

With the oils that are on the market today I don't think there are too many available that are "much Better". Most oils are now meeting the SN+, D1G2, or other stringent specs.

I bet just 5 or 10 years ago todays Super Tech would have been considered "much better" than a lot of oils. That field has shrunk IMHO because of the quality oils available at reasonable costs today.

Curious what would be considered "much better" today than most oils and how many oils would meet that, and still be readily available and be under $25.00 or so per 5 quarts?


+1

It's amazing (to me at least) how well today's dino and syn blends perform, let alone full syns. QS even has a syn blend D1G2. And you can pick up D1G2 full syn from various mfgs for well under $15 from time to time.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter


It's amazing (to me at least) how well today's dino and syn blends perform, let alone full syns.


So you're confident enough to run a conventional oil in a turbocharged and direct injected engine for 300,000 miles and that it'll still be running as good as new and clean inside too at that point? I sure wouldn't be.
 
Originally Posted by Patman


There seems to be a new wave of BITOGers on here that just subscribe to the philosophy that any oil is "good enough". What happened to the days when people yearned for not just good enough, but for something much better? It seems like we have a lot less oil nuts on here these days. It's kinda sad
21.gif



As one "old timer" BITOG to another one, times are changing and not always for the better
frown.gif
.

Whimsey
 
Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter


It's amazing (to me at least) how well today's dino and syn blends perform, let alone full syns.


So you're confident enough to run a conventional oil in a turbocharged and direct injected engine for 300,000 miles and that it'll still be running as good as new and clean inside too at that point? I sure wouldn't be.


Where did I say that? But to your question, no I probably wouldn't use a straight conventional in a turbo DI...but a blend like the one QS has w/SN+, D1G2 cert, maybe. Either way, it doesn't change a thing about what I said in re to how well today's dino/syn blends perform. ... but thanks for asking.
 
Last edited:
I'm also expecting the OEM spec to keep the engine running within "spec" for the factory warranty. Beyond that, they wouldn't have to care. Seeing/hearing about the number of timing chain failures on EcoBoost makes me wonder about the Ford spec.
 
Originally Posted by metroplex
I'm also expecting the OEM spec to keep the engine running within "spec" for the factory warranty. Beyond that, they wouldn't have to care. Seeing/hearing about the number of timing chain failures on EcoBoost makes me wonder about the Ford spec.


How do you think it impacts their potential future customers if the product fails directly out of warranty? I know how it would impact me. I wouldn't buy another and I suspect that is the case for most consumers.

I know a number of engineers who work at Ford/GM. They really have the intention of designing solid products. They won't jeopardize their brand by calling out a lubricant that they don't feel gives it a good chance of making it through it's design lifespan and that span is significantly longer than the warranty.
 
Originally Posted by KevinP
Originally Posted by metroplex
I'm also expecting the OEM spec to keep the engine running within "spec" for the factory warranty. Beyond that, they wouldn't have to care. Seeing/hearing about the number of timing chain failures on EcoBoost makes me wonder about the Ford spec.


How do you think it impacts their potential future customers if the product fails directly out of warranty? I know how it would impact me. I wouldn't buy another and I suspect that is the case for most consumers.

I know a number of engineers who work at Ford/GM. They really have the intention of designing solid products. They won't jeopardize their brand by calling out a lubricant that they don't feel gives it a good chance of making it through it's design lifespan and that span is significantly longer than the warranty.



There are a vocal minority here. No matter the facts and real world consequences the belief shared by each one of them know more then the manufacturer and the vehicle will only live on beyond the warranty period on boutique motor oils and Fram Ultra filters.
 
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted by dailydriver
….
AGREED!
01.gif

I still think that for a summer time OCI, in my specific app (marginal factory radiator/aftermarket front skid plate), the D1G2 Ravenol DXG 5W-30 (3.1 HTHSV) I could use would be too thin, and heat shear/possibly fuel dilute down to a 2.6 or less HTHSV.
So I went with the low(ish) SA (0.8), 6.2 NOACK, but ~3.7 HTHSV Dexos 2 REP 5W-30 choice instead, despite Virtus_Probi's post above.
wink.gif



Assuming the VOA I found is still accurate, I think the REP is actually a pretty good choice for a DIT engine.

https://oil-club.de/index.php?thread/2849-ravenol-rep-5w-30/

The calcium level is a bit higher than what we see in typical d1G2 formulations (maybe 1100-1300 ppm), but it is still quite a modest dose,
Kind of reminds me of the M1 5W30 ESP I ran a while ago with the very low Noack loss and minimal amount of magnesium...unlike that M1, the REP has a big dose of tungsten. Interesting!

I tried to order some d1G2 DXG a while ago, but got the d1 stuff instead...no big deal for me as my money was refunded promptly and I just had to take a short drive to UPS to drop off the return package.
I would have no problem running the latest DXG or the REP from that VOA in my car....honestly don't care to pay for them at this point, but they do have some really outstanding properties.



I am seriously considering running 3 evenly spaced OCIs per year, using the REP in the summer, their DFE (OW-20) for the late fall/winter, and their DXG (I have the actual D1G2 formula of this in my stash, as well as the just released DFE) for the early spring to early summer.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
...Vauxhall/Opel/GM have developed a new engine Oil - Dexos 1, Generation 2 to reduce the risk of this fault happening. This new Oil is essential to be used for Astra K 1.4 Turbo. However up until this point only Dexos 2 has been available. The new Oil will be released in the final week of April 2017. The part number is: 95599877 which comes in a 5 litre container, larger sizes will be available at a later date. Model Year 2017 cars are shipped with the new oil in already. "
I have seen other references on this site about d1G2 being specified in Europe...supposedly, dexos2 will be updated with an LSPI test at some point.

I would like to run a Dexos2/C3 synthetic in my GDI but am concerned about LSPI and soot-related timing chain wear (stretch). Guess I'll continue to run a Dexos1 Gen2 synthetic until a reformulated Dexos2 Gen2 (?) synthetic becomes available.
 
Originally Posted by KevinP
Originally Posted by metroplex
I'm also expecting the OEM spec to keep the engine running within "spec" for the factory warranty. Beyond that, they wouldn't have to care. Seeing/hearing about the number of timing chain failures on EcoBoost makes me wonder about the Ford spec.


How do you think it impacts their potential future customers if the product fails directly out of warranty? I know how it would impact me. I wouldn't buy another and I suspect that is the case for most consumers.

I know a number of engineers who work at Ford/GM. They really have the intention of designing solid products. They won't jeopardize their brand by calling out a lubricant that they don't feel gives it a good chance of making it through it's design lifespan and that span is significantly longer than the warranty.


They honestly wouldn't care since most people lease and if the failure occurs under the lease or factory warranty, everyone is "happy". However, just as an example, every 2011-2019 Explorer with the 3.5 V6 and AWD is subject to the PTU overheating, and the water pumps/timing chain are also more likely to fail costing $2000+. Police Interceptors go through water pumps every 50k. Unless it happens to you, you probably will believe wholeheartedly in the OEM. I personally know of 4 people that have had major problems with their EcoBoost powered SHO or Explorer Sport related to lubrication. They followed the oil life monitor and/or regularly changed the oil with oil that met the Ford specs (which could mean non-synthetic 5W-30 or Amsoil SS 5W-30). One woman I know had her timing chains "stretch" on an Explorer Sport at 48,000 miles with regular maintenance.

I too know a few people that work at Ford and the engineers may care about the products, but the other departments don't share the same enthusiasm about cars or customer loyalty.
 
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