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Re: We love our ethanol! [Re: SevenBizzos] #5135965
06/16/19 06:04 PM
06/16/19 06:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 631
Michigan
NO2 Offline
NO2  Offline

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 631
Michigan
Effective net cost based on energy content:


E10 (regular) 249.9
E15 - 242.2
E30 - 236.2
E85 - $248.3 (70% ethanol)
E85 - $265.6 (85% ethanol)

So the cheapest fuel is E30

Re: We love our ethanol! [Re: SevenBizzos] #5135977
06/16/19 06:18 PM
06/16/19 06:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 513
PR CA, USA
2strokeNorthstar Offline
2strokeNorthstar  Offline

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 513
PR CA, USA
I would love to get even the 91 octane at that price. Ethanol is a waste and bad for the environment


2001 F150 5.4L 140k miles
2013 Nissan Juke Nismo 80k
2000 Honda S2000 183k
1998 BMW 328i 170k
Re: We love our ethanol! [Re: 2strokeNorthstar] #5136077
06/16/19 08:12 PM
06/16/19 08:12 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,938
SF Bay Area
y_p_w Offline
y_p_w  Offline

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,938
SF Bay Area
Originally Posted by 2strokeNorthstar
I would love to get even the 91 octane at that price. Ethanol is a waste and bad for the environment

As a practical matter, ethanol is the cheapest and most effective octane booster available save MTBE. The more common requirements for premium (or even super premium) would still drive towards the use.

Re: We love our ethanol! [Re: SevenBizzos] #5136326
06/17/19 06:42 AM
06/17/19 06:42 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,386
North Texas
ARB1977 Offline
ARB1977  Offline

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,386
North Texas
I stick to E10 87 octane. My Tacoma says I can use E15.


2015 Tacoma 4.0L 60K (as of 02/23/18)
AMSOIL SS 0W30 / Toyota filter

2018 CRV 1.5L (as of 05/11/18)
Factory fill / Honda filter
Re: We love our ethanol! [Re: SevenBizzos] #5136334
06/17/19 06:59 AM
06/17/19 06:59 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 16
New England
Jp267 Offline
Jp267  Offline

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 16
New England
Haven't seen this in the Northeast, but we have Sunocos with five different octanes available at the pump. So there's that anyway.

Re: We love our ethanol! [Re: y_p_w] #5136362
06/17/19 07:56 AM
06/17/19 07:56 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,585
Atlanta,GA
BMWTurboDzl Offline
BMWTurboDzl  Offline

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,585
Atlanta,GA
Originally Posted by y_p_w
Originally Posted by 2strokeNorthstar
I would love to get even the 91 octane at that price. Ethanol is a waste and bad for the environment

As a practical matter, ethanol is the cheapest and most effective octane booster available save MTBE. The more common requirements for premium (or even super premium) would still drive towards the use.

approved


“It took untold generations to get you where you are. A little gratitude might be in order. If you’re going to insist on bending the world to your way, you better have your reasons.”

435i
Re: We love our ethanol! [Re: SevenBizzos] #5136944
06/17/19 07:05 PM
06/17/19 07:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 312
KS
red7404 Offline
red7404  Offline

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 312
KS
IMHO. ethanol is just asking for water in your system. dont for get all acids are water base.

Re: We love our ethanol! [Re: red7404] #5137085
06/17/19 09:55 PM
06/17/19 09:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,712
Upper Midwest
kschachn Online content
kschachn  Online Content

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,712
Upper Midwest
Originally Posted by red7404
IMHO. ethanol is just asking for water in your system. dont for get all acids are water base.

What? I don’t get the acid connection, can you explain. I have a minor in chemistry so you can be a little technical.


1994 BMW 530i, 242K
1996 Honda Accord, 277K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 418K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 281K
Re: We love our ethanol! [Re: kschachn] #5137102
06/17/19 10:20 PM
06/17/19 10:20 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 572
D/FW Metroplex
The_Nuke Offline
The_Nuke  Offline

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 572
D/FW Metroplex
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by red7404
IMHO. ethanol is just asking for water in your system. dont for get all acids are water base.

What? I don’t get the acid connection, can you explain. I have a minor in chemistry so you can be a little technical.


+2 (no chemistry minor, but I do have a periodic table shower curtain!)

I’m a little unclear on the intended meaning as well and would welcome a correction, because that post is just chocked full of scratch-my-head-ness.


2012 Charger Pursuit aka "The Bacon Hauler"
- 5.7L + NAG1 (A5) + 2.65 (215mm)
Re: We love our ethanol! [Re: kschachn] #5149308
07/02/19 08:25 AM
07/02/19 08:25 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 9,128
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 9,128
Waco, TX
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by red7404
IMHO. ethanol is just asking for water in your system. dont for get all acids are water base.

What? I don’t get the acid connection, can you explain. I have a minor in chemistry so you can be a little technical.


When ethanol burns, acetic acid is one by-product ( systematically named ethanoic acid )


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: We love our ethanol! [Re: Linctex] #5149501
07/02/19 02:20 PM
07/02/19 02:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,585
Atlanta,GA
BMWTurboDzl Offline
BMWTurboDzl  Offline

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,585
Atlanta,GA
Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by red7404
IMHO. ethanol is just asking for water in your system. dont for get all acids are water base.

What? I don’t get the acid connection, can you explain. I have a minor in chemistry so you can be a little technical.


When ethanol burns, acetic acid is one by-product ( systematically named ethanoic acid )


Nope. Acetic acid is not a by-product from the combustion of ethanol. Ethanol in contact with oxygen can eventually oxidize into acetic acid but the burning of ethanol creates CO2 and H2O.


“It took untold generations to get you where you are. A little gratitude might be in order. If you’re going to insist on bending the world to your way, you better have your reasons.”

435i
Re: We love our ethanol! [Re: SevenBizzos] #5149663
07/02/19 05:53 PM
07/02/19 05:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 10,943
Illinois
javacontour Offline
javacontour  Offline

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 10,943
Illinois
About the only thing E85 is good for (for me anyway) is a cheaper fuel for returning Flex Fuel rental cars.


network down, IP packets delivered via UPS -BOFH
Re: We love our ethanol! [Re: javacontour] #5149692
07/02/19 06:26 PM
07/02/19 06:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 606
Georgia
RDY4WAR Offline
RDY4WAR  Offline

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 606
Georgia
Originally Posted by javacontour
About the only thing E85 is good for (for me anyway) is a cheaper fuel for returning Flex Fuel rental cars.


....and horsepower. 😁


"He who is without oil, shall throw the first rod." - Compressions 9:1
Re: We love our ethanol! [Re: RDY4WAR] #5149908
07/02/19 10:59 PM
07/02/19 10:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 10,943
Illinois
javacontour Offline
javacontour  Offline

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 10,943
Illinois
Well, since none of my cars can use it, I gave the (for me anyway) caveat.

It may help others, but it's mostly useless in my household.


Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Originally Posted by javacontour
About the only thing E85 is good for (for me anyway) is a cheaper fuel for returning Flex Fuel rental cars.


....and horsepower. 😁


network down, IP packets delivered via UPS -BOFH
Re: We love our ethanol! [Re: BMWTurboDzl] #5149933
07/03/19 12:08 AM
07/03/19 12:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,999
Sequim, WA
edhackett Online content
edhackett  Online Content

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,999
Sequim, WA
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl

Nope. Acetic acid is not a by-product from the combustion of ethanol. Ethanol in contact with oxygen can eventually oxidize into acetic acid but the burning of ethanol creates CO2 and H2O.


Oh, if it were only true, what a wonderful place the world would be. CO2 and H20 are the only two theoretical components of the combustion of gasoline too. In the real world, inside a combustion chamber, oxidation is not complete and hundreds of compounds are formed. These include alcohols, aldehydes, ketones, and organic acids. Alcohols are particularly prone to forming aldehydes and acids as their structures are related.

Ed

Last edited by edhackett; 07/03/19 12:15 AM.

Never attribute to engineers that into which politicians, lawyers, accountants, and marketeers have poked their fingers.
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