Average new car payment $554

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The comical thing to me on used vs new cars is the cruddy bumper to bumper on majority of cars at 3yrs/36k miles. Some People who buy new are scared to buy used but only have that short term coverage that afterwards they own a used car and are on the hook for repairs. The crazy part is that coverage is most expensive because of insane depreciation in first few years. What's worst is the new car is a dud you take a bath selling it vs the person who got it 3 years old and had no commitment and depreciation is steady.
 
Originally Posted by madRiver
The comical thing to me on used vs new cars is the cruddy bumper to bumper on majority of cars at 3yrs/36k miles. Some People who buy new are scared to buy used but only have that short term coverage that afterwards they own a used car and are on the hook for repairs. The crazy part is that coverage is most expensive because of insane depreciation in first few years. What's worst is the new car is a dud you take a bath selling it vs the person who got it 3 years old and had no commitment and depreciation is steady.

This is why I got a 10 year, 150k mile bumper to bumper warranty through a company partnered for years with my dealer. The same dealer that did a good will $2800 rear diff replacement for free, on my car 2 years ago, after I flooded it unknowingly, so I trust them to stand by their product.
 
Originally Posted by Elkins45
I'm a retired teacher, so average middle class at best. I have never bought a used car. I've only financed when there were specials like 0% interest or when it was necessary to qualify for some other incentive. And I've always paid those off as soon as the contract allowed. As soon as I buy the new one I start saving for the next one.

I know people tell me that new cars are a waste of money and that rich people buy used cars, but I've never been able to shake the idea that if it was a good car then then the owner wouldn't have wanted to sell it so soon.

that's strange way of thinking. Many people dump cars at the 4 year mark because they know nothing about them and god forbid, it might need a new battery or a set of tires (I actually knew a guy like that). Others, like on this board are just bored and like the change. I have had over 50 cars in my lifetime, only 2 were new. I just like to change. To me, buying the 4 year old car is the best deal out there. Most are still like new looks-wise and probably 1/2 the cost. I hope to never buy new again....and I can easily afford to buy new and with cash.
 
Originally Posted by fdcg27
Originally Posted by HowAboutThis
Originally Posted by madRiver
New car buying on debt does not lead to any significant wealth building an carries risk.

Wealthy people do not leverage buying on cars credit to build more wealth. People justifying debt to perform investing because they cannot afford both do.



Bingo!

But I'm grateful for those wanting loans they can barely afford because it's how we keep used car prices down...if everyone paid cash and tried to buy used, used cars would be too expensive.


Oh please!
Many of us can well afford to buy new cars so we do thereby avoiding the unknown unknowns with any used purchase.
If the seller is offering free financing with no discount for writing a check for the purchase, then only a fool would pay cash.
Not everyone is living hand to mouth and most people with a few pennies to rub together aren't spendthrifts and are financially savvy and also have solid incomes and credit scores.
I also know of nobody with any real money who would seriously consider a used daily driver.
An exotic toy, sure, but not for a daily driver.
Just doesn't make sense not to buy new if you can well afford to do so.


well you just met one. I got real money but I always buy used. Cars are so reliable now days I see no reason to buy new.
 
Originally Posted by FordBroncoVWJeta
Originally Posted by Elkins45
I know people tell me that new cars are a waste of money and that rich people buy used cars, but I've never been able to shake the idea that if it was a good car then then the owner wouldn't have wanted to sell it so soon.
I wouldn't call it a waste of money if you keep it for a long time.


I sold my 2007 Corolla last year with 177K miles. It was running like the day I bought it. I had just bought a new truck (to augment my 98 that I'm starting to be afraid to drive too far) and didn't really need it as a daily driver after I retired.

I wish in retrospect I had kept it. It was as boring as a mountain of beige wallpaper but as dependable a vehicle as I have ever owned.
 
Originally Posted by fdcg27
Oh please!
Many of us can well afford to buy new cars so we do thereby avoiding the unknown unknowns with any used purchase.
If the seller is offering free financing with no discount for writing a check for the purchase, then only a fool would pay cash.
Not everyone is living hand to mouth and most people with a few pennies to rub together aren't spendthrifts and are financially savvy and also have solid incomes and credit scores.
I also know of nobody with any real money who would seriously consider a used daily driver.
An exotic toy, sure, but not for a daily driver.
Just doesn't make sense not to buy new if you can well afford to do so.


Well I'm not sure I'd call my 2008 Mercedes E-350 an exotic toy, but I've had it for about 5 years at this point and it's basically my daily driver. I liked it because it was loaded and because it was used, I paid about 1/3 of the price when it was new and it had under 50k when I bought it. Now it's probably down to 1/6 of the price of when it was new so 1/6 in depreciation over 5 years isn't that bad. Would have been 2/3 in the first 6 years.

People do things that don't make sense all the time, hence the length of this thread. For me, maybe it's different, could be I'm just too cheap to spend that kind of money on a new car. Only bought a new car once, that's because the old car died and I was in a hurry to buy another one so I didn't really have the time to shop for a used one, walked into a dealership one night and walked out with a signed contract for a car that same night.

Originally Posted by madRiver
The comical thing to me on used vs new cars is the cruddy bumper to bumper on majority of cars at 3yrs/36k miles. Some People who buy new are scared to buy used but only have that short term coverage that afterwards they own a used car and are on the hook for repairs. The crazy part is that coverage is most expensive because of insane depreciation in first few years. What's worst is the new car is a dud you take a bath selling it vs the person who got it 3 years old and had no commitment and depreciation is steady.


As far as I know, you can get an extended warranty for pretty much any new car and some go pretty long like 7 or 8 years or even more. As a Mercedes fan now, I notice that the prices tend to fall off a cliff after about 5-6 years. Factory warranties are usually long gone at that point as they do 4/50k. The new models usually come out every 3-4 years so the styling is one or two cycles old at that point. And because they've been out a while, you can do some research and see what kind of common problems that particular model/year might have.
 
Originally Posted by philipp10
Originally Posted by Elkins45
I'm a retired teacher, so average middle class at best. I have never bought a used car. I've only financed when there were specials like 0% interest or when it was necessary to qualify for some other incentive. And I've always paid those off as soon as the contract allowed. As soon as I buy the new one I start saving for the next one.

I know people tell me that new cars are a waste of money and that rich people buy used cars, but I've never been able to shake the idea that if it was a good car then then the owner wouldn't have wanted to sell it so soon.

that's strange way of thinking. Many people dump cars at the 4 year mark because they know nothing about them and god forbid, it might need a new battery or a set of tires (I actually knew a guy like that). Others, like on this board are just bored and like the change. I have had over 50 cars in my lifetime, only 2 were new. I just like to change. To me, buying the 4 year old car is the best deal out there. Most are still like new looks-wise and probably 1/2 the cost. I hope to never buy new again....and I can easily afford to buy new and with cash.

I dumped mine at the 4 year mark because my 7/100k warranty was up. I was looking at 1200 in repairs for a HPFP and FP regulator, and would get back a 106k mile old vehicle...and the new model was so much nicer, fasterz and more fuel efficient. So the dealer took 500 off trade since it was broken, and made me a good deal.
 
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by philipp10
Originally Posted by Elkins45
I'm a retired teacher, so average middle class at best. I have never bought a used car. I've only financed when there were specials like 0% interest or when it was necessary to qualify for some other incentive. And I've always paid those off as soon as the contract allowed. As soon as I buy the new one I start saving for the next one.

I know people tell me that new cars are a waste of money and that rich people buy used cars, but I've never been able to shake the idea that if it was a good car then then the owner wouldn't have wanted to sell it so soon.

that's strange way of thinking. Many people dump cars at the 4 year mark because they know nothing about them and god forbid, it might need a new battery or a set of tires (I actually knew a guy like that). Others, like on this board are just bored and like the change. I have had over 50 cars in my lifetime, only 2 were new. I just like to change. To me, buying the 4 year old car is the best deal out there. Most are still like new looks-wise and probably 1/2 the cost. I hope to never buy new again....and I can easily afford to buy new and with cash.

I dumped mine at the 4 year mark because my 7/100k warranty was up. I was looking at 1200 in repairs for a HPFP and FP regulator, and would get back a 106k mile old vehicle...and the new model was so much nicer, fasterz and more fuel efficient. So the dealer took 500 off trade since it was broken, and made me a good deal.


Should have picked up a used Mercedes with a CPO warranty. They give you three extra years with unlimited miles after the factory warranty expires. If it still has a factory warranty, it's basically 7 years unlimited miles from the in service date. I'd love to see people with 200k drive into the dealership and use the warranty, I think there's a few people out there that drive 50k a year.
 
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by philipp10
Originally Posted by Elkins45
I'm a retired teacher, so average middle class at best. I have never bought a used car. I've only financed when there were specials like 0% interest or when it was necessary to qualify for some other incentive. And I've always paid those off as soon as the contract allowed. As soon as I buy the new one I start saving for the next one.

I know people tell me that new cars are a waste of money and that rich people buy used cars, but I've never been able to shake the idea that if it was a good car then then the owner wouldn't have wanted to sell it so soon.

that's strange way of thinking. Many people dump cars at the 4 year mark because they know nothing about them and god forbid, it might need a new battery or a set of tires (I actually knew a guy like that). Others, like on this board are just bored and like the change. I have had over 50 cars in my lifetime, only 2 were new. I just like to change. To me, buying the 4 year old car is the best deal out there. Most are still like new looks-wise and probably 1/2 the cost. I hope to never buy new again....and I can easily afford to buy new and with cash.

I dumped mine at the 4 year mark because my 7/100k warranty was up. I was looking at 1200 in repairs for a HPFP and FP regulator, and would get back a 106k mile old vehicle...and the new model was so much nicer, fasterz and more fuel efficient. So the dealer took 500 off trade since it was broken, and made me a good deal.


Should have picked up a used Mercedes with a CPO warranty. They give you three extra years with unlimited miles after the factory warranty expires. If it still has a factory warranty, it's basically 7 years unlimited miles from the in service date. I'd love to see people with 200k drive into the dealership and use the warranty, I think there's a few people out there that drive 50k a year.

[censored]! That's impressive, but the service costs alone are terrible on those. I get an oil change and tire rotation for about $75 if I buy my own Mobil 1 EP (that includes oil cost) with my CX5, but with the benz, I understand that this would cost around $200. Brake job on my cx5 runs around 700-900, including new oem rotors. On a Benz, 3x that. Then I'm faced with the fact that I'd need an AMG model to make it better than my Cx5, and you can add a LOT to the above numbers, as the regular GLC300 offers nothing really for me. My neighbor has an AMG43 GLC and the interior is about on par with my cx5. Nicer to look at, but not as refined. It's that 7 speed dct and 3.0TT that make the car what it is, but see above...so really, Id end up paying a ton to get a better product than I drive now, or just paying a bit more for equal or less. Really just not a good buy. I did look into it, as well as BMW and all the others, though. The Alfa Stelvio looked like a good compromise but I dont have a local Alfa dealer, and I dont buy FCA.
 
Originally Posted by Ws6
That's impressive, but the service costs alone are terrible on those. I get an oil change and tire rotation for about $75 if I buy my own Mobil 1 EP (that includes oil cost) with my CX5, but with the benz, I understand that this would cost around $200. Brake job on my cx5 runs around 700-900, including new oem rotors. On a Benz, 3x that. Then I'm faced with the fact that I'd need an AMG model to make it better than my Cx5, and you can add a LOT to the above numbers, as the regular GLC300 offers nothing really for me. My neighbor has an AMG43 GLC and the interior is about on par with my cx5. Nicer to look at, but not as refined. It's that 7 speed dct and 3.0TT that make the car what it is, but see above...so really, Id end up paying a ton to get a better product than I drive now, or just paying a bit more for equal or less. Really just not a good buy. I did look into it, as well as BMW and all the others, though. The Alfa Stelvio looked like a good compromise but I dont have a local Alfa dealer, and I dont buy FCA.


I take mine to an indy who changes my oil for $20 when I bring the oil and filter plus rotates the tires. Dealer is typically $300 for service A but they basically just check a bunch of stuff, you can skip that and just have them change the oil for $100. But I suppose if it's still in warranty you might have to pay for service A. One way around that is to get a 3-4 pre-paid maintenance package, you only really save money if it's due for plugs or transmission fluid changes, otherwise, it's just slightly cheaper than paying per service. You would probably have to jump up to the GLE to notice a difference. They do have options like active curve illumination, pano roofs, 3 position memory seats, massage seats, power trunk closer, etc that you don't find in something like a CX5. Plus they tend to do a nicer job on things like keyless go, normally all 4 door handles lock and unlock. Usually the other non-luxury brands cut corners on that, just one button or just the front doors etc. Oh, and I don't think I ever said it was a good buy, there's just a long warranty that you could get and more electronic gadgets.... Makes it fun to drive and brings a smile to my face when driving. That never happened when I was driving a Ford, that's worth a little bit extra.
 
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by Ws6
That's impressive, but the service costs alone are terrible on those. I get an oil change and tire rotation for about $75 if I buy my own Mobil 1 EP (that includes oil cost) with my CX5, but with the benz, I understand that this would cost around $200. Brake job on my cx5 runs around 700-900, including new oem rotors. On a Benz, 3x that. Then I'm faced with the fact that I'd need an AMG model to make it better than my Cx5, and you can add a LOT to the above numbers, as the regular GLC300 offers nothing really for me. My neighbor has an AMG43 GLC and the interior is about on par with my cx5. Nicer to look at, but not as refined. It's that 7 speed dct and 3.0TT that make the car what it is, but see above...so really, Id end up paying a ton to get a better product than I drive now, or just paying a bit more for equal or less. Really just not a good buy. I did look into it, as well as BMW and all the others, though. The Alfa Stelvio looked like a good compromise but I dont have a local Alfa dealer, and I dont buy FCA.


I take mine to an indy who changes my oil for $20 when I bring the oil and filter plus rotates the tires. Dealer is typically $300 for service A but they basically just check a bunch of stuff, you can skip that and just have them change the oil for $100. But I suppose if it's still in warranty you might have to pay for service A. One way around that is to get a 3-4 pre-paid maintenance package, you only really save money if it's due for plugs or transmission fluid changes, otherwise, it's just slightly cheaper than paying per service. You would probably have to jump up to the GLE to notice a difference. They do have options like active curve illumination, pano roofs, 3 position memory seats, massage seats, power trunk closer, etc that you don't find in something like a CX5. Plus they tend to do a nicer job on things like keyless go, normally all 4 door handles lock and unlock. Usually the other non-luxury brands cut corners on that, just one button or just the front doors etc. Oh, and I don't think I ever said it was a good buy, there's just a long warranty that you could get and more electronic gadgets.... Makes it fun to drive and brings a smile to my face when driving. That never happened when I was driving a Ford, that's worth a little bit extra.

I have power hatch closing and opening, radar adaptive cruise, automatic dimming headlights, rain sensing wipers, heated windshield, street sign recognition, adaptive LED headlights that turn 15 degrees, 2 position memory seats, heated and reclining (just a little bit, but hey...)second row, cooled and heated driver and passenger seat, holographic HUD display with NAV instructions, XM and color weather radar, apple CarPlay and android auto, power folding mirrors, all 4 doors lock and unlock, but I think that's programmable, so Im not sure other than the pano roof, what the benz is offering? I didnt think the massage chairs were in anything anywhere near the price I wanted to be at until well after warranty is gone?

PS, as someone who lifts, does crossfit, and does BJJ, the cooled seats are an absolute killer option!

The GLE is a 3rd row (dont need), so the GLC is analagous moreso to the cx5 while the GLE is more in line with lsrger SUVs.
 
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GLC is their lower end line so of course you're not going to get all the options that would be available on something like a GLE. Same reason I was tempted to get a C class, but for a few thousand more, you get a bigger car and more options in an E class. GLE could have air suspension (silky smooth ride til it breaks), parking assist where it parallel parks the car for you, it's 3 position memory seats for both driver and passenger, 3 zone climate control, rear entertainment, soft close doors, harman kardon sound system standard although you could upgrade to Bang Olufsen. I originally got mine because of the headlamp washers, but they got rid of those when they switched to LED headlights. Of course with a GLS, you could get something like heated and cooled cup holders...
 
Originally Posted by Wolf359
GLC is their lower end line so of course you're not going to get all the options that would be available on something like a GLE. Same reason I was tempted to get a C class, but for a few thousand more, you get a bigger car and more options in an E class. GLE could have air suspension (silky smooth ride til it breaks), parking assist where it parallel parks the car for you, it's 3 position memory seats for both driver and passenger, 3 zone climate control, rear entertainment, soft close doors, harman kardon sound system standard although you could upgrade to Bang Olufsen. I originally got mine because of the headlamp washers, but they got rid of those when they switched to LED headlights. Of course with a GLS, you could get something like heated and cooled cup holders...

The sound system is cool. My cx5 has Bose, and Ive always found Bose to be very meh. HK is a step up. No thanks on air ride. My cx5 rides at least as well as my neighbor's amg43GLC. Wheel base matters, and the GLE has the advantage there, but it also wont get nearly 30mpg, will it?

Sounds like cup holders and how the door closes and the auto park (i dont ever go anywhere thay has those requirements though) are the only things Id notice aside the sound system, which I do admit is a nice thing. 3 zone CC and 3 option memory dont mean anything to me. It really sounds like a wash as I get HUD and Sport mode (fun in the mountains kindof), except the sound system, which is a legit thing I miss.

That said, I could upgrade the sound of my cx5 for far less than an under 20k mile GLE would cost and then as you said...maintenance...

The GLE350 seems a match for my cx5 feature for feature except where it has a nicer dash and displays, massage chairs, and Hey Mercedes, while my Cx5 is significantly faster. Really, its a no brainer when cost and maintenance factor in.
 
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Originally Posted by philipp10

well you just met one. I got real money but I always buy used. Cars are so reliable now days I see no reason to buy new.

They are very reliable but the repair costs can be right up there, if they ever break.

To each their own. I could see myself buying new again, for the warrant, and hope that I get my money's worth out of it. Or buying well used again, knowing that it's a gamble that I might lose on (wind up tossing without getting my money's worth out of--but it'll be little money lost). I don't like the middle ground, where I might spend lots to get something, then spend lots to fix it on the low probability repair that I wound up having all the same.
 
If you're afraid of thieves holding your stuff said:
To keep my retirement saving simple I just invest in the Vanguard Admiral S+P 500 index fund. Read a long time ago that if Warren Buffet were to pass away, he'd tell his wife to just invest in an index fund and she'd be fine, or do better than most. And it works, I seem to do as well or better than most managed funds. 90% of my holdings go into index funds, the other 10% in a bond fund (and I probably shouldn't even do that...it almost always underperforms the index fund and drags things down a bit...but they say, got to have that bond fund! I'm wondering if it's just bond fund managers saying that). I may look into investing in a Vanguard growth fund, but I have a feeling it won't perform any better than the index fund.
 
My last new car was my 2014 Mustang GT. I financed about $22,000 for 60 months at 1.69% interest and my payment was about $390 a month. That is the highest payment that I have personally had on a car.
 
Originally Posted by Railrust
To keep my retirement saving simple I just invest in the Vanguard Admiral S+P 500 index fund. Read a long time ago that if Warren Buffet were to pass away, he'd tell his wife to just invest in an index fund and she'd be fine, or do better than most. And it works, I seem to do as well or better than most managed funds. 90% of my holdings go into index funds, the other 10% in a bond fund (and I probably shouldn't even do that...it almost always underperforms the index fund and drags things down a bit...but they say, got to have that bond fund! I'm wondering if it's just bond fund managers saying that). I may look into investing in a Vanguard growth fund, but I have a feeling it won't perform any better than the index fund.


That fidelity fund I mentioned earlier has a lower expense ratio .015 vs .04. Still it's probably not worth switching due to capital gains tax. I'd also dump the bond fund, they told me the same thing and after several years of sticking with the bond fund, got sick of subpar performance. They claimed that in a down market the bond market would do better, but I remember when the market tanked, they all tanked including the bond fund so it was basically pointless. Sell it and stick it in the S&P 500. I figure I'm already diversified by having real estate investments also.

Originally Posted by Ws6
The sound system is cool. My cx5 has Bose, and Ive always found Bose to be very meh. HK is a step up. No thanks on air ride. My cx5 rides at least as well as my neighbor's amg43GLC. Wheel base matters, and the GLE has the advantage there, but it also wont get nearly 30mpg, will it?

Sounds like cup holders and how the door closes and the auto park (i dont ever go anywhere thay has those requirements though) are the only things Id notice aside the sound system, which I do admit is a nice thing. 3 zone CC and 3 option memory dont mean anything to me. It really sounds like a wash as I get HUD and Sport mode (fun in the mountains kindof), except the sound system, which is a legit thing I miss.

That said, I could upgrade the sound of my cx5 for far less than an under 20k mile GLE would cost and then as you said...maintenance...

The GLE350 seems a match for my cx5 feature for feature except where it has a nicer dash and displays, massage chairs, and Hey Mercedes, while my Cx5 is significantly faster. Really, its a no brainer when cost and maintenance factor in.


Umm, I don't really worry about gas mileage, plus it uses premium. Also while it has a lot of options, the whole car is of course pricey when they're new. But look at a 3-6 year old GLE and compare that price to the same CX5, it's just a little bit more. Different between massive depreciation and lower depreciation. Not really a deal when new, but decent when used. For maintenance, I get a knockoff copy of the WIS which is the workshop manuals on eBay for $6.60 and either take it to an indy or DIY. If you do maintenance at the dealer you also get killed on the price, but then again, I've seen people here claim they've spent 8k at the dealer on just a Honda.
 
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by philipp10

well you just met one. I got real money but I always buy used. Cars are so reliable now days I see no reason to buy new.

They are very reliable but the repair costs can be right up there, if they ever break.

To each their own. I could see myself buying new again, for the warrant, and hope that I get my money's worth out of it. Or buying well used again, knowing that it's a gamble that I might lose on (wind up tossing without getting my money's worth out of--but it'll be little money lost). I don't like the middle ground, where I might spend lots to get something, then spend lots to fix it on the low probability repair that I wound up having all the same.


We're on the same page with this.
I can see the sense in buying something used for five or six grand when the car looks like a good bet.
We've done this with good results and had we had the opposite, then we wouldn't have been out all that many dollars.
I can't see paying real money for a used car that isn't intended as a toy.
With any used car, whether it has a CPO sticker on the windscreen or not, you are taking a bet.
While we may throw a little pocket change in the slots, we aren't going to drain an account to do so.
People also need to remember that a warranty on something used is only as good as the integrity with which it's supported. There are a million ways for any warrantor to avoid coverage, as we've seen in many threads here and elsewhere.
 
Originally Posted by fdcg27
Originally Posted by HowAboutThis
Originally Posted by madRiver
New car buying on debt does not lead to any significant wealth building an carries risk.

Wealthy people do not leverage buying on cars credit to build more wealth. People justifying debt to perform investing because they cannot afford both do.



Bingo!

But I'm grateful for those wanting loans they can barely afford because it's how we keep used car prices down...if everyone paid cash and tried to buy used, used cars would be too expensive.


Oh please!
Many of us can well afford to buy new cars so we do thereby avoiding the unknown unknowns with any used purchase.
If the seller is offering free financing with no discount for writing a check for the purchase, then only a fool would pay cash.
Not everyone is living hand to mouth and most people with a few pennies to rub together aren't spendthrifts and are financially savvy and also have solid incomes and credit scores.
I also know of nobody with any real money who would seriously consider a used daily driver.
An exotic toy, sure, but not for a daily driver.
Just doesn't make sense not to buy new if you can well afford to do so.


My uncle could cash a 7-figure check tomorrow. His daily driver is a zero-option 2WD Ranger. Toys are an F-250, a hot-rodded Dakota, & a motorcycle.
 
All of the BMWs I've purchased since 2000 have been CPO cars. I have been very pleased with every one(although the E90 328i was a bit on the dull side). I was able to pick up the X1 for a lot less than an equivalent new CUV, and the X1 had the added bonus of a default 40/60 front/rear torque split.
 
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