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Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives #5136871
06/17/19 05:46 PM
06/17/19 05:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,698
Midwest USA
LoneRanger Offline OP
LoneRanger  Offline OP

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,698
Midwest USA
Been in the market for a truck as my recent posts portray. So the other day I get shown the top secret invoice sheet on a GMC Canyon w/ MSRP @ $33,480. It showed like $32,215 or something. Can't remember and wasn't allowed to be alone with it or take it home.

I have a knee jerk reaction that the figure shown is not the full story. They have to have more margin than that (?...) Apparently they rely more on factory incentives. I am aware that GM hold back is 3% of MSRP but I didn't bring that up in the negotiation.

I was given Supplier pricing which brought it down to $32,008, and qualified for $2968 in rebates, but as far as *dealership* money all they put in was $400 and wouldn't budge. That $400 was in the form of giving me $400 above Kelly Blue Book trade-in value on my Forester.

All this brought the price of the truck down to $29,000. Truck was only 2WD and only an ext cab not a four door crew. I felt this deal was not good enough and turned it down. This would have been dealer-to dealer 1:1 trade since my dealer didn't have it and would have to trade another who had it in stock (they located what I wanted), so this is likely why they were so tight with no add'l discounts off their own bottom line.



2019 Ford F-150 ................................(Factory fill)
2019 GMC Terrain .............................(ACDelco dexos2)
2016 Moto Guzzi Stelvio <for sale>...(eni 10W60)
Re: Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives [Re: LoneRanger] #5136881
06/17/19 05:54 PM
06/17/19 05:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 34,687
ME
eljefino Offline
eljefino  Offline

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 34,687
ME
I share your suspicions.

Re: Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives [Re: LoneRanger] #5136899
06/17/19 06:13 PM
06/17/19 06:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 766
WY
sloinker Offline
sloinker  Offline

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 766
WY
The best price is usually between 10%-20% below MSRP depending on incentives. Check a couple of the national dealerships known for pricing. Not familiar with the Chevy but Mopar's can be had for cheaper in North Carolina, Texas and Idaho. I'm sure there is a GMC dealer that you can use for price leverage. Here's a 4X4 extended cab in Idaho for less than $30k.

https://www.davesmith.com/new/GMC/2019-GMC-Canyon-e7bde45a0a0e0aea042ff3df4afd09ab.htm

Re: Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives [Re: LoneRanger] #5136914
06/17/19 06:32 PM
06/17/19 06:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,121
Las Vegas
ArrestMeRedZ Offline
ArrestMeRedZ  Offline

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,121
Las Vegas
Now that invoice prices are available on the internet to virtually everyone, they have become meaningless. In the example above, the difference between list price and invoice is under 4%, when it used to be 18% for Chevy trucks. You don't think dealers would be screaming if their margins were cut by over 75%?
Besides holdback, there are a number of other areas where money is being funneled back to the dealer. IMO, the current pricing scheme cheats the buyer who is getting a terrible deal, and the salesman, whose commission is based on a false profit number.

Re: Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives [Re: LoneRanger] #5137015
06/17/19 08:27 PM
06/17/19 08:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,164
Atlanta
DuckRyder Offline
DuckRyder  Offline

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,164
Atlanta
According to Edmunds, that wasn’t a bad deal.

Of course, I’ve beat Edmunds prices, but I’m just saying it wasn’t an bad deal if you want the truck...


Robert
  • 2019 Volkswagen Jetta R-Line
  • 2005 Honda Civic Sedan
  • 1972 F100 Ranger XLT (390/C6/9” 3.50 Truetrac)
  • 2002 Ford Ranger XLT 4D Supercab 3.0L
Re: Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives [Re: LoneRanger] #5137017
06/17/19 08:28 PM
06/17/19 08:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,006
NJ
Leo99 Offline
Leo99  Offline

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,006
NJ
I'd assume that if you were shown, it's a marketing trick. But none of those numbers matter anyway. The dealership will sell the truck at the best price they can get for it. They do this everyday and they are very good at it. Don't think you're going to beat them at their own game. You just try to do the best you can.


Without data you're just another person with an opinion. W. E. Deming

2003 Corolla 250,000 miles (RIP)
2004 Corolla 125,000 miles
2004 Rav4 370,000 miles
2015 Camry 70,000 miles
Re: Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives [Re: LoneRanger] #5137026
06/17/19 08:34 PM
06/17/19 08:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,538
Illinois
mrsilv04 Offline
mrsilv04  Offline

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,538
Illinois
If you don't mind a GMC Canyon, look at Laura GMC on the Illinois side of St. Louis (Collinsville).

Here's one with an MSRP of $38,140... for $30,585..... discounted around $7500.

https://www.laurabuickgmc.com/Vehic...eel_Drive_SLT-Collinsville-IL/3443740863

Many others to choose from.


2004 Silverado - on its 3rd Jasper engine in less than one year.
Re: Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives [Re: LoneRanger] #5137073
06/17/19 09:37 PM
06/17/19 09:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,756
pa
benjy Offline
benjy  Offline

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,756
pa
more truck for less = nissan frontier + no worries as its still port injected!!!

Re: Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives [Re: LoneRanger] #5137075
06/17/19 09:37 PM
06/17/19 09:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 924
ZFW
JustN89 Offline
JustN89  Offline

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 924
ZFW
You are right- we had less wiggle room when we didn't have the vehicle in stock. It's kind of convoluted and I still struggle to understand the goings on of dealer trades (and probably will never understand it now that I've thankfully left that field), but I believe it has something to do with how the dealership owns their inventory. The dealership I worked for financed their floor plan (not uncommon), but for trades, we had to purchase the incoming vehicle outright from the other dealership, which meant, as I understand it, that we had less room to negotiate because we were fully bought into the car instead of the other vehicles on our lot.

Hold backs can get interesting. Manufacturers usually offer a certain amount per car sold, but it can go beyond that. They can offer more money back to the dealership for moving certain models/color/trim levels, as well as offer money back once the dealership reaches certain sales goals. For instance, when I was selling Hondas, there was a $400/car hold back from Honda, as well as $150/Fit sold after selling 5, and the money back increased as you sold 5, 10, 15, etc.

This is why many dealers are willing to make better deals towards the end of the month- it's not necessarily every salesmen just trying to cram every car sale into that paycheck, but it's because the dealer knows which sales goals are within reach and has a better idea of how much money he has coming back to him if he makes this deal. Moving the extra $400 to your trade-in was just a way of allowing the dealership to allocate the money onto your trade, meaning that they felt good about the price they were getting your trade at.

Re: Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives [Re: LoneRanger] #5137319
06/18/19 08:32 AM
06/18/19 08:32 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 13,100
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 13,100
N.H, U.S.A.
L.R. - You absolutely HAVE to sell the nice Forester yourself. You are loosing at least 2 grand right there, And, no, it's not that much of a pain for 2 grand and likely a few hours work.

What are the National rebates and what does Edmunds calculate for invoices and factory to dealer incentives.?

Also If that the truck hasn't been on the lot long, most of that transportation money on the Monroney is yours for the taking.

This "We'll show you the invoice" is the oldest fake- out trick in the book. Forget it.

- AlleyCat from SubaruForester.org

Last edited by ARCOgraphite; 06/18/19 08:33 AM.

2019 VW Jetta S 6MT OCI#0 5033mi-Castrol Edge Prof? VW508+OE Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#7 52665mi-Castrol GTX Magnatec 5W20 + SOA Filter
Re: Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives [Re: LoneRanger] #5137324
06/18/19 08:39 AM
06/18/19 08:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 224
Michigan
64bawagon Offline
64bawagon  Offline

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 224
Michigan
I found years ago that establishing a long term relationship with a sales person was the best way to get the price and service I wanted. I believe that the more of the sales persons time you take up the less likely they are to work hard for you. They gain a sense of who the tire kickers are.


64 Chevy wagon, 10 Jeep Wrangler, 18 Silverado 1/2 ton
Re: Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives [Re: LoneRanger] #5137352
06/18/19 09:18 AM
06/18/19 09:18 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 292
MO
RhondaHonda Offline
RhondaHonda  Offline

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 292
MO
As mrsilv04 said, Laura Buick/GMC just outside St. Louis is a good place to get an idea on pricing. They don’t give you top dollar on trade-ins from my experience and what a few friends have told me so you’d probably do better at Carmax or selling yourself. I beat their pricing at another St. Louis area dealership when buying my wife’s Yukon but it’s worth a look for sure. Good luck.

Last edited by RhondaHonda; 06/18/19 09:19 AM.
Re: Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives [Re: LoneRanger] #5137478
06/18/19 12:08 PM
06/18/19 12:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,676
Buffalo, NY
JTK Offline
JTK  Offline

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,676
Buffalo, NY
Originally Posted by LoneRanger


...All this brought the price of the truck down to $29,000.


You have to be careful with some of the incentives. Some apply after tax, AKA "customer cash incentives".

Like said, you are never going to know how much profit a dealer makes on the sale, but you can guarantee their profit is greater on a truck or SUV these days over a new car.

All I do is try several dealerships online. Which ever responds with real numbers on both the trade-in and new purchase gets my business.

Last edited by JTK; 06/18/19 12:09 PM.

2017 Ram 1500 4x4, 3.6L.
2016 Nissan Quest SV (Babe magnet IV)
2015 Nissan Versa 1.6 S
Re: Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives [Re: JTK] #5137592
06/18/19 02:24 PM
06/18/19 02:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 515
Prosper, TX
K20FA5 Offline
K20FA5  Offline

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 515
Prosper, TX
Originally Posted by JTK
Originally Posted by LoneRanger


...All this brought the price of the truck down to $29,000.


You have to be careful with some of the incentives. Some apply after tax, AKA "customer cash incentives".

Like said, you are never going to know how much profit a dealer makes on the sale, but you can guarantee their profit is greater on a truck or SUV these days over a new car.

All I do is try several dealerships online. Which ever responds with real numbers on both the trade-in and new purchase gets my business.


Agreed, the last three vehicles I've bought have been online. Old Nissan Frontier, the 4Runner and my Silverado. Just show up to test drive and make sure it has what we want and sign the papers.


Mine-2018 Chevy Silverado LT Z71 5.3L-M1 AFE 0W-20 / PF63E
Wife-2016 Toyota 4Runner SR5 Premium 4.0L-M1 AFE 0W-20 / 04152-YZZA5
Kiddo-2012 Honda Civic LX 1.8L-PP 0W-20 / TG7317
Re: Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives [Re: LoneRanger] #5137825
06/18/19 07:40 PM
06/18/19 07:40 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 129
Northern KY
Elkins45 Offline
Elkins45  Offline

Joined: May 2018
Posts: 129
Northern KY
The most I ever paid for a new car (straight cash purchase) was 92% of the sticker for my 2007 Corolla. The least was somewhere between 75-80% for my 2017 Nissan Titan. That’s the “on the road” price including KY sales tax and any fees.

My experience is that the slower a particular model is moving the less bearing the sticker price has on the final price.

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