Recent Topics
Walmart Oil Change?
by Talent_Keyhole - 01/18/20 12:50 AM
Bleh, mother’s gas furnace fan burned up
by Rmay635703 - 01/17/20 11:23 PM
Rotella gas truck vs Valvoline modern engine
by MoPowa - 01/17/20 09:25 PM
Afton Specification Handbook -- September 2019
by Gokhan - 01/17/20 09:04 PM
Old Retired Navy Commander
by KeithS_NW_Ohio - 01/17/20 08:58 PM
Mobil 1 EP vs Mobil 1 EP Truck & SUV
by jrommelt - 01/17/20 08:29 PM
Stick with Maxlife or go back to DW-1?
by jayjr1105 - 01/17/20 07:58 PM
Thread locker
by zzyzzx - 01/17/20 07:56 PM
A preppers tale
by Bluestream - 01/17/20 07:50 PM
19 Ram Rebel oil choices
by Schwifty - 01/17/20 07:35 PM
Is it impossible to get a loan for an older vehicle?
by FordBroncoVWJeta - 01/17/20 07:22 PM
Fridge and freezer oil test
by jkhawaii - 01/17/20 06:59 PM
Not on sale but theeeeeeyyyyy're here!
by jayjr1105 - 01/17/20 06:47 PM
Valvoline Daily Protection 5w30 - $13.52 at Walmart
by RonRonnster - 01/17/20 06:39 PM
Gotta love Friday
by 53' Stude - 01/17/20 06:11 PM
It was 1911
by CourierDriver - 01/17/20 06:10 PM
Desulfating a Battery
by 5AcresAndAFool - 01/17/20 05:41 PM
Newest Members
jonnyb433, kzbd, 54Robert, CPA1989, myisland
70463 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
19 registered members (Bjornviken, edhackett, DaleRider, Char Baby, earlyre, 4 invisible), 944 guests, and 15 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics300,267
Posts5,172,013
Members70,463
Most Online3,728
Jan 11th, 2020
Donate to BITOG
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives #5136871 06/17/19 04:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,071
L
LoneRanger Offline OP
OP Offline
L
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,071
Been in the market for a truck as my recent posts portray. So the other day I get shown the top secret invoice sheet on a GMC Canyon w/ MSRP @ $33,480. It showed like $32,215 or something. Can't remember and wasn't allowed to be alone with it or take it home.

I have a knee jerk reaction that the figure shown is not the full story. They have to have more margin than that (?...) Apparently they rely more on factory incentives. I am aware that GM hold back is 3% of MSRP but I didn't bring that up in the negotiation.

I was given Supplier pricing which brought it down to $32,008, and qualified for $2968 in rebates, but as far as *dealership* money all they put in was $400 and wouldn't budge. That $400 was in the form of giving me $400 above Kelly Blue Book trade-in value on my Forester.

All this brought the price of the truck down to $29,000. Truck was only 2WD and only an ext cab not a four door crew. I felt this deal was not good enough and turned it down. This would have been dealer-to dealer 1:1 trade since my dealer didn't have it and would have to trade another who had it in stock (they located what I wanted), so this is likely why they were so tight with no add'l discounts off their own bottom line.



'19 F-150 2.7 twin turbo DI V6 .....(Motorcraft synblend 5W30 SN+)
'19 GMC Terrain 1.5 turbo DI I4....(Warren 0W20 1DexosGen2)
'16 Moto Guzzi NTX 1151cc v-twin (Eni 10W60)
Re: Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives [Re: LoneRanger] #5136881 06/17/19 04:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 35,103
E
eljefino Offline
Offline
E
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 35,103
I share your suspicions.

Re: Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives [Re: LoneRanger] #5136899 06/17/19 05:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,163
sloinker Offline
Offline
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,163
The best price is usually between 10%-20% below MSRP depending on incentives. Check a couple of the national dealerships known for pricing. Not familiar with the Chevy but Mopar's can be had for cheaper in North Carolina, Texas and Idaho. I'm sure there is a GMC dealer that you can use for price leverage. Here's a 4X4 extended cab in Idaho for less than $30k.

https://www.davesmith.com/new/GMC/2019-GMC-Canyon-e7bde45a0a0e0aea042ff3df4afd09ab.htm


'16 Tiguan TSI Vaico 5W40
'15 VW Golf TDI Ravenol VMP 5W30
'15 VW Golf Sportwagen TDI VMP 5W30
'14 Dodge Grand Caravan 3.6 Red Line Blue Label 5W20
'64 Plymouth Fury440 Red Line Blue Label 10W40
Re: Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives [Re: LoneRanger] #5136914 06/17/19 05:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,227
ArrestMeRedZ Offline
Offline
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,227
Now that invoice prices are available on the internet to virtually everyone, they have become meaningless. In the example above, the difference between list price and invoice is under 4%, when it used to be 18% for Chevy trucks. You don't think dealers would be screaming if their margins were cut by over 75%?
Besides holdback, there are a number of other areas where money is being funneled back to the dealer. IMO, the current pricing scheme cheats the buyer who is getting a terrible deal, and the salesman, whose commission is based on a false profit number.

Re: Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives [Re: LoneRanger] #5137015 06/17/19 07:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,403
D
DuckRyder Offline
Offline
D
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,403
According to Edmunds, that wasn’t a bad deal.

Of course, I’ve beat Edmunds prices, but I’m just saying it wasn’t an bad deal if you want the truck...


Robert
  • 2019 Volkswagen Jetta R-Line
  • 1972 F100 Ranger XLT (445FE/C6/9” 3.50 Truetrac)
  • 2002 Ford Ranger XLT 4D Supercab 3.0L
Re: Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives [Re: LoneRanger] #5137017 06/17/19 07:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,339
L
Leo99 Offline
Offline
L
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,339
I'd assume that if you were shown, it's a marketing trick. But none of those numbers matter anyway. The dealership will sell the truck at the best price they can get for it. They do this everyday and they are very good at it. Don't think you're going to beat them at their own game. You just try to do the best you can.


Without data you're just another person with an opinion. W. E. Deming

2003 Corolla 250,000 miles (RIP)
2004 Corolla 125,000 miles
2004 Rav4 392,000 miles
2015 Camry 90,000 miles
Re: Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives [Re: LoneRanger] #5137026 06/17/19 07:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,643
M
mrsilv04 Offline
Offline
M
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,643
If you don't mind a GMC Canyon, look at Laura GMC on the Illinois side of St. Louis (Collinsville).

Here's one with an MSRP of $38,140... for $30,585..... discounted around $7500.

https://www.laurabuickgmc.com/Vehic...eel_Drive_SLT-Collinsville-IL/3443740863

Many others to choose from.


2004 Silverado - on its 3rd Jasper engine in less than one year.
Re: Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives [Re: LoneRanger] #5137073 06/17/19 08:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,094
B
benjy Offline
Offline
B
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,094
more truck for less = nissan frontier + no worries as its still port injected!!!

Re: Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives [Re: LoneRanger] #5137075 06/17/19 08:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,076
J
JustN89 Offline
Offline
J
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,076
You are right- we had less wiggle room when we didn't have the vehicle in stock. It's kind of convoluted and I still struggle to understand the goings on of dealer trades (and probably will never understand it now that I've thankfully left that field), but I believe it has something to do with how the dealership owns their inventory. The dealership I worked for financed their floor plan (not uncommon), but for trades, we had to purchase the incoming vehicle outright from the other dealership, which meant, as I understand it, that we had less room to negotiate because we were fully bought into the car instead of the other vehicles on our lot.

Hold backs can get interesting. Manufacturers usually offer a certain amount per car sold, but it can go beyond that. They can offer more money back to the dealership for moving certain models/color/trim levels, as well as offer money back once the dealership reaches certain sales goals. For instance, when I was selling Hondas, there was a $400/car hold back from Honda, as well as $150/Fit sold after selling 5, and the money back increased as you sold 5, 10, 15, etc.

This is why many dealers are willing to make better deals towards the end of the month- it's not necessarily every salesmen just trying to cram every car sale into that paycheck, but it's because the dealer knows which sales goals are within reach and has a better idea of how much money he has coming back to him if he makes this deal. Moving the extra $400 to your trade-in was just a way of allowing the dealership to allocate the money onto your trade, meaning that they felt good about the price they were getting your trade at.

Re: Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives [Re: LoneRanger] #5137319 06/18/19 07:32 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 14,149
A
ARCOgraphite Offline
Offline
A
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 14,149
L.R. - You absolutely HAVE to sell the nice Forester yourself. You are loosing at least 2 grand right there, And, no, it's not that much of a pain for 2 grand and likely a few hours work.

What are the National rebates and what does Edmunds calculate for invoices and factory to dealer incentives.?

Also If that the truck hasn't been on the lot long, most of that transportation money on the Monroney is yours for the taking.

This "We'll show you the invoice" is the oldest fake- out trick in the book. Forget it.

- AlleyCat from SubaruForester.org

Last edited by ARCOgraphite; 06/18/19 07:33 AM.

2019 VW Jetta S 6MT OCI#2 7378mi-MOTUL Specific VW508.00+VW Service Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#8 60864mi-Subaru Idemitsu 0W20 + SOA Filter
Re: Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives [Re: LoneRanger] #5137324 06/18/19 07:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 245
6
64bawagon Offline
Offline
6
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 245
I found years ago that establishing a long term relationship with a sales person was the best way to get the price and service I wanted. I believe that the more of the sales persons time you take up the less likely they are to work hard for you. They gain a sense of who the tire kickers are.


64 Chevy wagon, 10 Jeep Wrangler, 18 Silverado 1/2 ton
Re: Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives [Re: LoneRanger] #5137352 06/18/19 08:18 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 339
R
RhondaHonda Offline
Offline
R
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 339
As mrsilv04 said, Laura Buick/GMC just outside St. Louis is a good place to get an idea on pricing. They don’t give you top dollar on trade-ins from my experience and what a few friends have told me so you’d probably do better at Carmax or selling yourself. I beat their pricing at another St. Louis area dealership when buying my wife’s Yukon but it’s worth a look for sure. Good luck.

Last edited by RhondaHonda; 06/18/19 08:19 AM.
Re: Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives [Re: LoneRanger] #5137478 06/18/19 11:08 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,251
J
JTK Offline
Offline
J
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 12,251
Originally Posted by LoneRanger


...All this brought the price of the truck down to $29,000.


You have to be careful with some of the incentives. Some apply after tax, AKA "customer cash incentives".

Like said, you are never going to know how much profit a dealer makes on the sale, but you can guarantee their profit is greater on a truck or SUV these days over a new car.

All I do is try several dealerships online. Which ever responds with real numbers on both the trade-in and new purchase gets my business.

Last edited by JTK; 06/18/19 11:09 AM.

2019 Nissan Pathfinder SV
2017 Ram 1500 4x4, 3.6L.
2015 Nissan Versa 1.6 S
Re: Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives [Re: JTK] #5137592 06/18/19 01:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 557
K
K20FA5 Offline
Offline
K
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 557
Originally Posted by JTK
Originally Posted by LoneRanger


...All this brought the price of the truck down to $29,000.


You have to be careful with some of the incentives. Some apply after tax, AKA "customer cash incentives".

Like said, you are never going to know how much profit a dealer makes on the sale, but you can guarantee their profit is greater on a truck or SUV these days over a new car.

All I do is try several dealerships online. Which ever responds with real numbers on both the trade-in and new purchase gets my business.


Agreed, the last three vehicles I've bought have been online. Old Nissan Frontier, the 4Runner and my Silverado. Just show up to test drive and make sure it has what we want and sign the papers.


Mine-2018 Chevy Silverado LT Z71 5.3L-M1 AFE 0W-20 / Wix WL10255
Wife-2017 Volvo XC90 T6 Inscription Polestar Tuned 2.0L- Dealer 5W-30
Re: Dealer Invoice, Hold Back, and Factory Incentives [Re: LoneRanger] #5137825 06/18/19 06:40 PM
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 271
E
Elkins45 Offline
Offline
E
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 271
The most I ever paid for a new car (straight cash purchase) was 92% of the sticker for my 2007 Corolla. The least was somewhere between 75-80% for my 2017 Nissan Titan. That’s the “on the road” price including KY sales tax and any fees.

My experience is that the slower a particular model is moving the less bearing the sticker price has on the final price.

Page 1 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™