Back of the brake pad: anti-seize or silicone brake lube?

[BigD1]

Originally Posted by The Critic
Originally Posted by BigD1
Originally Posted by demarpaint
I've used this for decades w/o a problem: Disk Brake Quiet


Yes that's the secret sauce for brakes that just won't shut up. Don't need shims...probably what was causing the noise in the first place especially the clip on type.


Shims are most-definitely needed. Almost every modern car has factory-installed brake pads containing shims.


My 92 Toyota pickup front disc brakes were double shimmed from the factory. After market pads I bought came with clip on shims. Low speed squeal that would not go away even with moly paste between the shim and pad. Threw the shims in the trash, applied disc brake quiet, and now my brakes have been quiet for over a year now.

Now tell me why I need shims?

 

[Hall]

I had some old Syl-Glyde that I used on my wife's Fusion's brakes. Shortly after we bought it (used), I serviced the brakes and applied Syl-Glyde to the back of the pads. About 12-15 months later, I replaced the pads and rotors and I had to PRY the pads off of the caliper piston. It had turned into a strong, sticky glue ! Tossed that tube after that.

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Or i guess you should contact Monroe brakes and tell them they're doing it wrong, because their install instructions specifically calls for lubricating the pad backings and clips/shims. And my guess is you'd find similar instructions from Bendix and Bosch and....
Lubricating the back of the pads is commonly recommended by the pad manufacturers as you point out. Now, with Wagner TQ pads, they do NOT want them lubricated and because people are so used to doing so, they clearly mark the pad backs with a sticker telling you NOT to.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted by BigD1
Originally Posted by The Critic
Originally Posted by BigD1
Originally Posted by demarpaint
I've used this for decades w/o a problem: Disk Brake Quiet


Yes that's the secret sauce for brakes that just won't shut up. Don't need shims...probably what was causing the noise in the first place especially the clip on type.


Shims are most-definitely needed. Almost every modern car has factory-installed brake pads containing shims.


My 92 Toyota pickup front disc brakes were double shimmed from the factory. After market pads I bought came with clip on shims. Low speed squeal that would not go away even with moly paste between the shim and pad. Threw the shims in the trash, applied disc brake quiet, and now my brakes have been quiet for over a year now.

Now tell me why I need shims?

I rarely use aftermarket pads so I cannot speak to your specific situation. It is possible that your shims were fitting loosely and causing noise?

On factory pads with shim kits, I always re-use the shim kit with new factory or install a new one.

 

[JTK]

I use the purple permatex 'ceramic synthetic' grease. I've also tried sil-glyde and various anti-seize products on pad backings. I think there's still evidence of stuff there at the next pad/rotor change? Hard to tell the way brakes get gunked up in the rust belt.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Or i guess you should contact Monroe brakes and tell them they're doing it wrong, because their install instructions specifically calls for lubricating the pad backings and clips/shims. And my guess is you'd find similar instructions from Bendix and Bosch and....
Lubricating the back of the pads is commonly recommended by the pad manufacturers as you point out. Now, with Wagner TQ pads, they do NOT want them lubricated and because people are so used to doing so, they clearly mark the pad backs with a sticker telling you NOT to.


Right, there are always exceptions. But lacking any application specific instructions to NOT apply lube, I'm lubing the pad backings. What I didn't agree with is the comment to "never" lube.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Or i guess you should contact Monroe brakes and tell them they're doing it wrong, because their install instructions specifically calls for lubricating the pad backings and clips/shims. And my guess is you'd find similar instructions from Bendix and Bosch and....
Lubricating the back of the pads is commonly recommended by the pad manufacturers as you point out. Now, with Wagner TQ pads, they do NOT want them lubricated and because people are so used to doing so, they clearly mark the pad backs with a sticker telling you NOT to.


Right, there are always exceptions. But lacking any application specific instructions to NOT apply lube, I'm lubing the pad backings. What I didn't agree with is the comment to "never" lube.

Just my advice as a an old master. If you have squeal on this type of job and no shims, there are other compounds to use rather than gooping on silicon grease.

Now if the mini tube supplied with the pad set IS that goop (glass and ceramic filled RTV) - goop away!

I ALWAYS chamfer the leading edge of the pads with a fine file and hacksaw 2 grooves in the pads to about 2mm from the pad backing plate. No Noise, no returns.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Or i guess you should contact Monroe brakes and tell them they're doing it wrong, because their install instructions specifically calls for lubricating the pad backings and clips/shims. And my guess is you'd find similar instructions from Bendix and Bosch and....
Lubricating the back of the pads is commonly recommended by the pad manufacturers as you point out. Now, with Wagner TQ pads, they do NOT want them lubricated and because people are so used to doing so, they clearly mark the pad backs with a sticker telling you NOT to.


Right, there are always exceptions. But lacking any application specific instructions to NOT apply lube, I'm lubing the pad backings. What I didn't agree with is the comment to "never" lube.

Just my advice as a an old master. If you have squeal on this type of job and no shims, there are other compounds to use rather than gooping on silicon grease.

Now if the mini tube supplied with the pad set IS that goop (glass and ceramic filled RTV) - goop away!

I ALWAYS chamfer the leading edge of the pads with a fine file and hacksaw 2 grooves in the pads to about 2mm from the pad backing plate. No Noise, no returns.


The last couple of brake jobs I've spent a little more for the chamfered pads. Seems to help..if anything it's not going to hurt anything. I would not use grease on the pad backings if the mfg said not to. Otherwise I lightly grease the backings and stay away from the edges.

Seriously, more is not better when it comes to greasing the backings. If you're putting gobs of lube on the backings that's plain user error and for the sake of your passengers and everyone else on the road, you probably shouldn't be doing your own brakes.

 

[nthach]

I use Molykote M77 or Permatex's Silicone Brake Grease on the backs on my pads. I put on a pea-sized amount and spread it on.

 

[donnyj08]

Originally Posted by Imp4
So AGS claims their Sil-Glyde and Cerami-Glyde products should be applied to the back of brake pads amongst other locations to prevent squeal.
See page 2 of the attached marketing materials for details.







This is what I use. Put a small film on all metal to metal contact/slide points.

Works well.

 

[UG_Passat]

Originally Posted by blupupher


I have seen people use the "Disk Brake Quiet" spray before (I think it is blue??), but never needed it.


It's red and easier to apply a thin coat than the plastic bottle stuff

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Lubricating the back of the pads is commonly recommended by the pad manufacturers as you point out. Now, with Wagner TQ pads, they do NOT want them lubricated and because people are so used to doing so, they clearly mark the pad backs with a sticker telling you NOT to.

IME, the backing plate design of Wagner TQs is quite different than the norm. The metal backing plate seems to be a skeleton, and the IMI material is some kind of thermosetting resin that's part of the friction.

Once the IMI part of the pad is "cut", it will squeal. I found Molykote M77 can quiet down the brakes when that happens.

Originally Posted by blupupher

I have seen people use the "Disk Brake Quiet" spray before (I think it is blue??), but never needed it.

That stuff is for old-school pads without shims - ones with riveted friction. People will use that to "glue" the shims onto the pad's backing plate but that can cause issues down the road. I admit though, to using it for a set of TQs on a Chevy truck. It shouldn't be used on modern brakes unless the pads you're installing are cheap and have no shims.

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted by PotatoFarmer77w
So I've been using silicone (the same stuff that lubes the calliper slide pin) on back of the brake pad as lubricating for years, never had a problem with it. That's how I was taught from school. After watching a few brake jobs video on youtube, seems like everybody else is using copper anti-seize.

I read through my Honda Factory Service Manual section on brakes carefully, and found they use their Silicone grease on the pins, and their Moly based greased on the pad backs and ears.

So that's what I do. Makes sense, Moly powder will lubricate dry, while Silicone will boil off the pad back, one of the hottest places on the vehicle.

I don't use anti-seize, not that it won't work well, but because better stuff is available that is made for purpose. Lately for me that is Goodson PasteLub.

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
You don't put ANYTHING on the back of the pads.

You don't want lube migrating onto the pad - and it surely will!

They should have anti-chatter shim on the puck contact area - out of the box

NO LUBE!

My Honda Factory Service Manual disagrees with you.

 

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted by HangFire
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
You don't put ANYTHING on the back of the pads.

You don't want lube migrating onto the pad - and it surely will!

They should have anti-chatter shim on the puck contact area - out of the box

NO LUBE!

My Honda Factory Service Manual disagrees with you.


X2!

 

[HangFire]

Originally Posted by doitmyself
M77 is silicone based while the Paste Lube is PAO. The Paste Lube hails from Sweden, is much cheaper, and is VERY water proof in the palm-under-faucet test.

This is not correct. Honda M77 is a Moly based high temp lube, and is recommended in their FSM for pad backs.

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by HangFire
Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
You don't put ANYTHING on the back of the pads.

You don't want lube migrating onto the pad - and it surely will!

They should have anti-chatter shim on the puck contact area - out of the box

NO LUBE!

My Honda Factory Service Manual disagrees with you.
FSM for my Infiniti G35 (and probably applicable to all Nissans) says "copper based brake grease" but only between the shims, not on the surface that the caliper piston touches.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted by hallstevenson
FSM for my Infiniti G35 (and probably applicable to all Nissans) says "copper based brake grease" but only between the shims, not on the surface that the caliper piston touches.

Probably because Nissan uses a stainless steel shim for most of their cars.

 

[Y_K]

I have Never been putting Anything, Ever. The lyfe's so short, the have so much to sell us...

 

[The_Cams]

Anti-seize and caliper grease will both work. Use what's on hand. On most vehicles I don't bother greasing the pads, but recently had trouble removing pads corroded onto the caliper, so I greased the replacement pads w/caliper grease. Ran low on Anti-seize greasing the hubs.