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'11 CTSV - M1EP 10w30 - 8K Built LSA - ~2k sample #5136380
06/17/19 08:34 AM
06/17/19 08:34 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 10
TX
oilnoob32 Offline OP
oilnoob32  Offline OP

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 10
TX
I noticed a slight drop in hot idle OP (low 20s vs high 20s) so I changed the oil in the car. It was a little low but nothing crazy, also. I recently bought this car a few months ago, and I really haven't even had time to drive it more than maybe 10 times. Anyways, I thought I saw some sheen to the oil in the bottom of my drain pan and I sent a sample in. This is a ERL 408 block, forged rotating assy built motor with ~8k miles. UOA:

[Linked Image]

The sodium I think I have a handle on. The previous owner ran Brad Penn oil, and only switched to the M1EP before selling the car as he didn't have any more of it on hand, per his explanation at least. The copper worries me a bit, thinking of potential bearing wear. But without other metals showing any elevated readings, what do y'all make of this? I estimated the OCI, really unsure - but it doesn't really matter much, I don't think. The car is running E85 and I am in Texas, so it's hot. Once I put new oil in the car (Amsoil 10w-30 leftover from my last car) the OP bumped back up to high 20s at hot idle on a 90* day high humidity. I was planning to run this oil for a short amount of time and switch over to 40 weight. Now I am a little paranoid. I don't want to unnecessarily drop the pan, remove caps to inspect bearings if it is not warranted, but I also don't want to trash an expensive motor. I wish I was more knowledgeable in the interpretation of these reports, so I am looking for some other opinions. I don't know what specific bearings were used in the build and have not been able to find this out. They are citing residual break in material as a potential cause, due to the lower miles on the motor (8k) but I am not sure I buy it.

I cut open my filter this weekend and here's a couple photos, plus a video which I think shows it better. There's some flakes in the filter also, but its not covered with them.

https://youtu.be/hYwO8JNOKX8

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Drain pan:
[Linked Image]

Thanks guys!

Last edited by oilnoob32; 06/17/19 08:55 AM.
Re: '11 CTSV - M1EP 10w30 - 8K Built LSA - ~2k sample [Re: oilnoob32] #5136789
06/17/19 04:23 PM
06/17/19 04:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 530
Maryland
RayCJ Online content
RayCJ  Online Content

Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 530
Maryland

The copper level is very normal for a new engine. My new Mazda had elevated copper levels higher than yours after the first oil change. It will take a couple more oil changes before it gets down to trace amounts. Another member here had a broken-in engine that needed new timing chains, gears and tension guides. He had a long track record of oil analysis and after the engine work, the copper level was sky-high. If it does not go down after a couple more oil changes, then start to consider other possibilities.

As for the flecks and speckles in your filter... That's why engines have filters. Your engine has 8k miles... It's an infant. When I did the first OC on my car and looked at the oil in direct sunlight, it looked like microscopic glitter. This is normal for a new engine.

There's a hot debate here if a new engine should do an early oil change. I feel better when the first OC is done at 3k miles followed by factory recommended intervals thereafter.

Ray

Re: '11 CTSV - M1EP 10w30 - 8K Built LSA - ~2k sample [Re: oilnoob32] #5136811
06/17/19 04:48 PM
06/17/19 04:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 10,065
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 10,065
...
8000 miles on a 2011?

That car needs to be driven.


2017 Mazda CX5
Havoline Pro DS 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: '11 CTSV - M1EP 10w30 - 8K Built LSA - ~2k sample [Re: PimTac] #5136815
06/17/19 04:51 PM
06/17/19 04:51 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 10
TX
oilnoob32 Offline OP
oilnoob32  Offline OP

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 10
TX
Originally Posted by RayCJ

The copper level is very normal for a new engine. My new Mazda had elevated copper levels higher than yours after the first oil change. It will take a couple more oil changes before it gets down to trace amounts. Another member here had a broken-in engine that needed new timing chains, gears and tension guides. He had a long track record of oil analysis and after the engine work, the copper level was sky-high. If it does not go down after a couple more oil changes, then start to consider other possibilities.

As for the flecks and speckles in your filter... That's why engines have filters. Your engine has 8k miles... It's an infant. When I did the first OC on my car and looked at the oil in direct sunlight, it looked like microscopic glitter. This is normal for a new engine.

There's a hot debate here if a new engine should do an early oil change. I feel better when the first OC is done at 3k miles followed by factory recommended intervals thereafter.

Ray

Ray - Thanks for your response. I should note, that I am not sure how many oil changes have been done since the build, but it is only a handful at most, probably less. I have come to a similar conclusion after reading more on this board, and plan to drive the car and re-test to establish trends, hopefully a reduction in metals.
Originally Posted by PimTac
8000 miles on a 2011?

That car needs to be driven.


The car itself has more miles, this is an aftermarket built motor. The car makes 720rwhp on E85 and the motor was meant to handle that power level with a safety net. Although, I do not drive it much, so I would agree. But just to clarify wink

Last edited by oilnoob32; 06/17/19 04:53 PM.
Re: '11 CTSV - M1EP 10w30 - 8K Built LSA - ~2k sample [Re: oilnoob32] #5136822
06/17/19 05:00 PM
06/17/19 05:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 10,065
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 10,065
...
That explains it then. Thanks.


2017 Mazda CX5
Havoline Pro DS 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: '11 CTSV - M1EP 10w30 - 8K Built LSA - ~2k sample [Re: oilnoob32] #5136882
06/17/19 05:57 PM
06/17/19 05:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 530
Maryland
RayCJ Online content
RayCJ  Online Content

Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 530
Maryland

Oilnoob32... If it was tracked it or did dyno runs on that oil sample, that will elevate your metal wear results for sure. Under the circumstances, the copper is normal and for a big engine, the aluminum and iron are fine. ... Actually better than my engine after it's first full oil change interval after dumping the factory oil at 3k miles. https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...ilesyn-sxr-0w20-5-100mi-2018-mazda3-2-5l


BTW: Here's the thread were the copper shot-up after installing a new timing drive system: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...7-4runner-valv-hm-synth-5w30-d1g2-4129mi

Re: '11 CTSV - M1EP 10w30 - 8K Built LSA - ~2k sample [Re: oilnoob32] #5136911
06/17/19 06:27 PM
06/17/19 06:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 530
Maryland
RayCJ Online content
RayCJ  Online Content

Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 530
Maryland

oilnoob32.... You might also consider contacting ERL and asking them what oil they recommend given your intended driving applications: https://www.enginelabs.com/features/pri-coverage/pri-2016-erl-performance-superdeck-lt-blocks/

They can probably offer some insight on expected levels of wear metals for your engine.


Ray

Re: '11 CTSV - M1EP 10w30 - 8K Built LSA - ~2k sample [Re: oilnoob32] #5136920
06/17/19 06:39 PM
06/17/19 06:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,008
SACRAMENTO, CA
rrounds Offline
rrounds  Offline

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,008
SACRAMENTO, CA
You've added over 200 hp to the stock 556hp engine and that puts a lot more pressure on the bearings. I would want more oil film strength before I put a lot of boost to the engine. That or more oil pressure is the only thing that will keep the rods or crankshaft from touching the bearings under high load situations. Low 20's at idle won't hurt anything, you want to make sure you have good oil pressure at speed(any rpm over 2000 and under load).

Have fun with your new toy, and post some pic's(please)
Rod


'06 S2000
'00 SSEi sold at 252k miles
'08 Ford F53 V10
'13 Jeep Sahara 2 door
Re: '11 CTSV - M1EP 10w30 - 8K Built LSA - ~2k sample [Re: oilnoob32] #5136953
06/17/19 07:12 PM
06/17/19 07:12 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,266
Fredericksburg, VA
JAG Offline
JAG  Offline

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,266
Fredericksburg, VA
I agree with rrounds that the oil viscosity should go up since the power was drastically increased. I’d probably use one the Ravenol oils that has a HTHS viscosity of at least 3.5 cP. That would be one of the Euro oils or racing oils.

The UOA looks fine but they aren’t good at quantifying actual wear and become less accurate the more severe the wear is because the particles tend to be larger. Larger particles are more likely to be filtered out by the filter and those that may be in the oil sample aren’t fully ionized during the UOA test.

Re: '11 CTSV - M1EP 10w30 - 8K Built LSA - ~2k sample [Re: oilnoob32] #5137254
06/18/19 06:31 AM
06/18/19 06:31 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 10
TX
oilnoob32 Offline OP
oilnoob32  Offline OP

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 10
TX
All good points, and thanks for the insight from each of you. I thought I would run this Amsoil Signature 10w-30 for a short time, and then run a 10w-40 with the heat down here in TX and for this configuration. I will have to do a little more digging on properties of potential oils.

Also a good point to contact ERL. The previous owner, not me, purchased the built short block, but they may still be at least willing to have a higher level discussion with me.

rrounds - here's a recent photo and bonus low quality idle vid from when I first bought the car:
[Linked Image]


Last edited by oilnoob32; 06/18/19 06:32 AM.
Re: '11 CTSV - M1EP 10w30 - 8K Built LSA - ~2k sample [Re: oilnoob32] #5137313
06/18/19 08:20 AM
06/18/19 08:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 228
Denver, CO
Env1ous Offline
Env1ous  Offline

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 228
Denver, CO
Very envious of your car man!! I love the CTS vs with a passion!

Re: '11 CTSV - M1EP 10w30 - 8K Built LSA - ~2k sample [Re: Env1ous] #5137339
06/18/19 08:53 AM
06/18/19 08:53 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 10
TX
oilnoob32 Offline OP
oilnoob32  Offline OP

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 10
TX
Originally Posted by Env1ous
Very envious of your car man!! I love the CTS vs with a passion!

Thanks! I really do love the car, and although it is not a daily driver and I don't drive it often, I have really missed getting behind the wheel. It took over 3 weeks between shipping and turn around at the lab to get the report and I had left it sitting the whole time. I guess I will take it out this week!

Re: '11 CTSV - M1EP 10w30 - 8K Built LSA - ~2k sample [Re: oilnoob32] #5137715
06/18/19 04:52 PM
06/18/19 04:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 10
TX
oilnoob32 Offline OP
oilnoob32  Offline OP

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 10
TX
I also wanted to mention after reading around this board some more, that the car does have an aftermarket oil cooler setup utilizing a Setrab unit. Are these units known to leech copper, or is that specific oil coolers? The visible "specks" would not be from the oil cooler, though, correct?

Re: '11 CTSV - M1EP 10w30 - 8K Built LSA - ~2k sample [Re: oilnoob32] #5137802
06/18/19 07:15 PM
06/18/19 07:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 530
Maryland
RayCJ Online content
RayCJ  Online Content

Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 530
Maryland
Originally Posted by oilnoob32
I also wanted to mention after reading around this board some more, that the car does have an aftermarket oil cooler setup utilizing a Setrab unit. Are these units known to leech copper, or is that specific oil coolers? The visible "specks" would not be from the oil cooler, though, correct?


I don't take apart all my oil filters but, the ones I have looked at all had specs and flecks of things in them. A call to ERL should clear-up a lot. I'm sure they will give basic info about your engine -they would have no reason to treat a potential customer with anything other than professional courtesy. After all, it's one of their engines and they'll want you to be happy with it.

Anyhow, for now take it easy on the engine for a couple thousand miles then do another UOA. You might also consider a magnetic drain plug as an extra precaution but in reality, a high end filter will do the job, especially if those flecks are non-ferrous.

I'm not familiar with after-market oil coolers. They certainly can have an impact on UOA results but exactly how would be difficult to predict in the absence of experience with that same unit.

Re: '11 CTSV - M1EP 10w30 - 8K Built LSA - ~2k sample [Re: oilnoob32] #5137820
06/18/19 07:33 PM
06/18/19 07:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,266
Fredericksburg, VA
JAG Offline
JAG  Offline

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,266
Fredericksburg, VA
I love the old-school muscle car sound that car has.

As for the aftermarket oil cooler, you could read the product description online to see if it mentions using copper. If not, then maybe a call to the manufacturer would yield an answer. I wouldn’t expect any oil cooler to lose specks of metal, just invisible particles leached out chemically.

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