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GM 2.4L ECOTEC Gen II, 569 UOA samples #5136147
06/16/19 09:27 PM
06/16/19 09:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 136
Iowa City
Talent_Keyhole Offline OP
Talent_Keyhole  Offline OP

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 136
Iowa City
I have a spreadsheet of 569 BSL oil samples, for the GM ECOTEC Gen II engine from 2006-2017 . I was not able to add the spreadsheet. I have revised the data and added averages, std devs, min, max, iron wear rates and comparisons between GDI and non-GDI versions of this engine for standard OCI, and fuel dilution.

Let me know your comments, questions, or any additions you would think might be meaningful. I originally shared this on the Chevy Equinox Forum which contains the full spreadsheet.

I am not convinced by labs and OEMs indicating that fuel dilution above 3% is normal for GDI engines.. It maybe typical, but not what I would consider normal.

https://www.equinoxforum.net/31-eng...cotec-oil-analysis-file-568-samples.html



Summary Page 1.jpgSummary Page 2.jpg
Last edited by Talent_Keyhole; 06/16/19 09:35 PM.
Re: GM 2.4L ECOTEC Gen II, 569 UOA samples [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5136263
06/17/19 03:01 AM
06/17/19 03:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 167
Alaska and Wisconsin
SteveG4 Offline
SteveG4  Offline

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 167
Alaska and Wisconsin
I can't read your grainy jpgs. frown


Somewhere between Alaska and Wisconsin...
2006 Silverado LT Crew Cab 4WD & 2013 Equinox AWD
Re: GM 2.4L ECOTEC Gen II, 569 UOA samples [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5136329
06/17/19 06:47 AM
06/17/19 06:47 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,102
Brittany / Canada
Popsy Offline
Popsy  Offline

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,102
Brittany / Canada
Can you put printscreens in .png, or upload the .xlx file ?


96 Barchetta, 300V 5W40 | Forfour 95, SHU 0W40
Mazda 6 2.3, M1 AFE 0W20 | Colt Ralliart, 300V 0W40
Re: GM 2.4L ECOTEC Gen II, 569 UOA samples [Re: Popsy] #5136483
06/17/19 10:50 AM
06/17/19 10:50 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 136
Iowa City
Talent_Keyhole Offline OP
Talent_Keyhole  Offline OP

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 136
Iowa City
Originally Posted by Popsy
Can you put printscreens in .png, or upload the .xlx file ?


Saved as .PNG

Summary Page 1.pngSummary Page 2.png
Re: GM 2.4L ECOTEC Gen II, 569 UOA samples [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5136486
06/17/19 11:00 AM
06/17/19 11:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,910
Wet side WA
JohnnyJohnson Offline
JohnnyJohnson  Offline

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,910
Wet side WA
LOL well that's an improvement you still can't read.


2004 Corolla 134004
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Re: GM 2.4L ECOTEC Gen II, 569 UOA samples [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5136561
06/17/19 12:38 PM
06/17/19 12:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,035
Danville, Indiana
IndyFan Offline
IndyFan  Offline

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,035
Danville, Indiana
How can something typical not be normal? Just curious.


18 Jeep JLUR Wrangler 3.6 20k
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Re: GM 2.4L ECOTEC Gen II, 569 UOA samples [Re: JohnnyJohnson] #5136579
06/17/19 01:05 PM
06/17/19 01:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,282
In the shop
53' Stude Offline
53' Stude  Offline

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,282
In the shop
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
LOL well that's an improvement you still can't read.



Very good point Johnny



Re: GM 2.4L ECOTEC Gen II, 569 UOA samples [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5136973
06/17/19 07:37 PM
06/17/19 07:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,266
Fredericksburg, VA
JAG Offline
JAG  Offline

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,266
Fredericksburg, VA
Thanks for sharing that. It is hard to read. It looks like higher fuel content is correlated with higher iron wear rate. A plot of iron wear rate vs fuel percentage would be interesting to see. Same for other wear metals.

Re: GM 2.4L ECOTEC Gen II, 569 UOA samples [Re: JohnnyJohnson] #5137418
06/18/19 11:11 AM
06/18/19 11:11 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 136
Iowa City
Talent_Keyhole Offline OP
Talent_Keyhole  Offline OP

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 136
Iowa City
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
LOL well that's an improvement you still can't read.



Rather than just laughing, how would you post a screen shot or an Excel file on this forum.

Re: GM 2.4L ECOTEC Gen II, 569 UOA samples [Re: IndyFan] #5137425
06/18/19 11:17 AM
06/18/19 11:17 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 136
Iowa City
Talent_Keyhole Offline OP
Talent_Keyhole  Offline OP

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 136
Iowa City
Originally Posted by IndyFan
How can something typical not be normal? Just curious.


When Polaris Labs puts out a tech bulletin saying upwards of 7% fuel dilution is normal for a GDI engine, and my local GM dealer will not even discuss the issue or provide any incite.

When a GDI system sprays fuel directly on the backside of of the cylinder, washing the oil from the cylinder wall, leaking past the rings, and contaminating the sump.

When GM extends warranty coverage to 7.5 years and 120K miles for oil consumption and damage to rings and pistons for many of these GDI Ecotec engines.

Re: GM 2.4L ECOTEC Gen II, 569 UOA samples [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5137453
06/18/19 11:39 AM
06/18/19 11:39 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,282
In the shop
53' Stude Offline
53' Stude  Offline

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,282
In the shop
Originally Posted by Talent_Keyhole
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
LOL well that's an improvement you still can't read.



Rather than just laughing, how would you post a screen shot or an Excel file on this forum.


Taking a screenshot is NOT hard at all. MAD_Hatter helped me take one and re size it smile



Re: GM 2.4L ECOTEC Gen II, 569 UOA samples [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5138091
06/19/19 05:12 AM
06/19/19 05:12 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,040
Indianapolis, IN
dnewton3 Offline
Global Moderator
dnewton3  Offline
Global Moderator

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 8,040
Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted by Talent_Keyhole
Originally Posted by IndyFan
How can something typical not be normal? Just curious.


When Polaris Labs puts out a tech bulletin saying upwards of 7% fuel dilution is normal for a GDI engine, and my local GM dealer will not even discuss the issue or provide any incite.

When a GDI system sprays fuel directly on the backside of of the cylinder, washing the oil from the cylinder wall, leaking past the rings, and contaminating the sump.

When GM extends warranty coverage to 7.5 years and 120K miles for oil consumption and damage to rings and pistons for many of these GDI Ecotec engines.


I think there is confusion in the use of the words here, between their formal and informal meanings. When you say "normal" in a sense of statistical analysis, it would indicate that the data defines something being inside the bounds of the 6-sigma (std devs). But the word "normal" to most folks just means typical, commonplace, everyday, expected, etc. I would argue that the statistical "normality" of the dilution and resulting wear is demonstrated by the data, itself. These 2.4L engine which have GDI are acting totally "normally"; they do what they do. It's just that you (understandably) find the results undesirable; eg - not acceptable. Further, there can be a big difference between a normal condition and acceptable. Example ... It's normal for an adolescent to be tempted to smoke marijuana, but it's not acceptable. (at least in my house).

So my point is that the data is telling you that the 2.4L GDI dilution of fuel is normal, and the wear results it causes are normal. They're just not desirable.


The act of preventative maintenance, in and of itself, is FAR MORE important than brand/grade/base choices among lubes and filters.
- under maintaining something is akin to abuse/neglect; that can kill equipment by shortening the lifespan
- over maintaining something has never been proven to be anything but a waste of time and money
Re: GM 2.4L ECOTEC Gen II, 569 UOA samples [Re: 53' Stude] #5138321
06/19/19 10:32 AM
06/19/19 10:32 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 136
Iowa City
Talent_Keyhole Offline OP
Talent_Keyhole  Offline OP

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 136
Iowa City
Originally Posted by 53' Stude
Originally Posted by Talent_Keyhole
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
LOL well that's an improvement you still can't read.



Rather than just laughing, how would you post a screen shot or an Excel file on this forum.


Taking a screenshot is NOT hard at all. MAD_Hatter helped me take one and re size it smile


The original .PNG file on my computer is 1920x1080. Then I upload it. When I open the image in the post and save it, the size is 768x432, and much smaller in file size. Let me know what I am doing wrong.

Last edited by Talent_Keyhole; 06/19/19 10:33 AM.
Re: GM 2.4L ECOTEC Gen II, 569 UOA samples [Re: dnewton3] #5140236
06/21/19 03:20 PM
06/21/19 03:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 136
Iowa City
Talent_Keyhole Offline OP
Talent_Keyhole  Offline OP

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 136
Iowa City
Originally Posted by dnewton3
Originally Posted by Talent_Keyhole
Originally Posted by IndyFan
How can something typical not be normal? Just curious.


When Polaris Labs puts out a tech bulletin saying upwards of 7% fuel dilution is normal for a GDI engine, and my local GM dealer will not even discuss the issue or provide any incite.

When a GDI system sprays fuel directly on the backside of of the cylinder, washing the oil from the cylinder wall, leaking past the rings, and contaminating the sump.

When GM extends warranty coverage to 7.5 years and 120K miles for oil consumption and damage to rings and pistons for many of these GDI Ecotec engines.


I think there is confusion in the use of the words here, between their formal and informal meanings. When you say "normal" in a sense of statistical analysis, it would indicate that the data defines something being inside the bounds of the 6-sigma (std devs). But the word "normal" to most folks just means typical, commonplace, everyday, expected, etc. I would argue that the statistical "normality" of the dilution and resulting wear is demonstrated by the data, itself. These 2.4L engine which have GDI are acting totally "normally"; they do what they do. It's just that you (understandably) find the results undesirable; eg - not acceptable. Further, there can be a big difference between a normal condition and acceptable. Example ... It's normal for an adolescent to be tempted to smoke marijuana, but it's not acceptable. (at least in my house).

So my point is that the data is telling you that the 2.4L GDI dilution of fuel is normal, and the wear results it causes are normal. They're just not desirable.



My use of the word normal is with respect to what any reasonable consumer and vehicle owner would expect from a manufacturer who's stated goal is to produce a durable, reliable product that is designed, and tested to the highest standards with the knowledge and experience available. GM promoted GDI for the its improved emission standards, performance and efficiency, but failed to disclose the known problems with GDI system, fuel dilution which causes viscosity loss, increased wear, and pre-mature failure of a number of major components. This occurs at above normal averages, even when all preventative maintenance and recommendations are followed. Is this typical , some would say yes. Is it normal and expected, some would say, including myself, no. Some countries have enacted legislation to support consumer's expectation that vehicles are designed and produced with a reasonable expectation of durability.

In other cultures, the temptation of banded substances is rare and not normal.

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