Average new car payment $554

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The debate is often comparing a fixed (low) rate on a declining balance … to if I used enough of my money compounding at the same time (moderate rate).

I think how the car gets paid for might mean less than buying a car too often, or too much car …
... and agree the saddest issue is not saving. I have had 16%-20% of my income being saved for decades … automatic discipline ...
 
Originally Posted by HowAboutThis
Originally Posted by bbhero
Well just FYI...

Any family making 250k puts them into the "evil" richest 90th plus percentile percentage of family earners in this nation in all likelihood...

Nothing wrong with that
smile.gif


It's amazing just how low a average income for family is considered "real good" money....

It's no where near high as many think....



https://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/income-rank/index.html

There's a link to a percentile rank based on household income. 250k household puts you in the top 4%. 100k puts your household in the top 25%.



Nothing like living comfortably puts my family into the hated "rich" people bracket. We as a people pay way too much attention of others finances.
 
Originally Posted by Ws6
Mmm...it's not the lender you are a slave to, but your method of making money. If you buy the vehicle outright, you went without while you saved up. If you go with a lender, you get it asap. The worst a lender can do to you is take it away if you fail to pay...but the guy saving doesnt have one either, anyway, so it's not like he is ahead. Further, when it's all said and done, the guy who waited for however long it took him to come up with the money can then brag that his self imposed going withiut saved him a whopping $2k or 3k or so in interest. Meanwhile he'sin a less safe, less reliable, or nonexistent vehicle. Yay him. Im not jealous of his depravity for months or maybe years in exchange for a few grand.


It's kind of a limiting mentality. What if the guy has 100k in the stock market and it goes up 10k and he just takes that 10k and spends it on the car? Then there's no self imposed going without. It's a strange concept anyway, sorta implies that you have to spend every nickel that you earn. Some people earn plenty and have money left over after their expenses are paid.

Originally Posted by DweezilAZ
Originally Posted by The Critic
You still invest in CD's?!

LOL. Why would he not ?


See previous messages regarding investing in the stock market and how returns have averaged about 10 over the last 30 years.

Originally Posted by DweezilAZ
While there were pockets of relative prosperity, 2009 - 2016 was a severe depression in this part of fly over country - I've been through recessions, and know the difference.

Perhaps I did not make my point well. I don't worry about the apocalypse ( much ), although if that happened, I would think land has more utility than a statement from Schwab or some other discount house, and brass and lead will be the only metals worth having. It's a matter of controlling your own destiny. I don't worry whether or not the guy holding my stuff is a thief, a Madoff, an inside trader, or is going to run the business into the ground or cook the books. Not my problem Couldn't tell you what the stock market did yesterday or is going to do next week. Don't care.


The stock market is a national market. For that matter you could also buy international stocks too but historically the US has been stronger. After the pounding the stock market took, it's been on a tear ever since. Buy low, sell high.

Land can be taken through eminent domain. They did try to take Justice Souter's home in NH at one point.

https://www.boston.com/news/nationa...ision-that-threatened-justices-own-homes

If you're afraid of thieves holding your stuff, just stick with the large firms like Fidelity, Schwab, Vanguard, etc. You can also stick with just mutual funds. I always throw out the example of the S&P 500 because even after all these years, it's still true, about 75% of fund managers can't beat the S&P 500 and if they do, they can't do it every year. If you can't beat them you mind as well join them and just buy the S&P 500. Also if you buy stocks, there are certain stocks that don't pay out dividends like Berkshire so you can just hold on until you're ready to sell. Land has taxes every year
 
Like I said Dave....

Being "rich" is not all has high has some out there want to make a majority of this country believe...

In my area....

A pharmacist and a general family doctor will easily be considered "rich"....

A orthodontist... Is "rich" by themselves... Same with a orthopedic surgeon...

It does not take all that much to be considered that by certain people... All I can say about that.
 
Originally Posted by 4WD
The debate is often comparing a fixed (low) rate on a declining balance … to if I used enough of my money compounding at the same time (moderate rate).

I think how the car gets paid for might mean less than buying a car too often, or too much car …
... and agree the saddest issue is not saving. I have had 16%-20% of my income being saved for decades … automatic discipline ...


^^This.
Buy what you can afford that suits your needs and keep it long enough that early depreciation has little impact.
Finance it as best suits your comfort level, although I do think that it's foolish to write a check rather than accept any concessionary financing on offer.
If we consider the thread title, $554.00/mo at 0% for forty eight months buys you a fairly ordinary decent new car, not anything really fancy or extravagant.
While it's nice to be in a position to choose whether to buy outright or to finance, most of our fellow countrymen are not in that position and are still in need of a couple of good, safe and reliable cars to get themselves and their spouses to work, to daycare and to grocery shopping.
 
Originally Posted by 4WD
The debate is often comparing a fixed (low) rate on a declining balance … to if I used enough of my money compounding at the same time (moderate rate).

I think how the car gets paid for might mean less than buying a car too often, or too much car …
... and agree the saddest issue is not saving. I have had 16%-20% of my income being saved for decades … automatic discipline ...

We are at 30% of gross income..... but that includes both 401K, IRA, voluntary pensions and brokerage accounts.

One million dollars is very easy by the age of 50 years old if you have discipline and *** invest for your future ****

Americans leasing a new vehicle every 3 years and living it up with designer clothes , designer glasses and new iPhones every year will definitely kill your long term wealth building potential. Constantly eating out a trendy restaurants, shopping for unnecessary crap and getting into debt.

Lots of folks don't think about their future 25-35 years down the road, they'll worry about their finances later.....
smirk.gif
Unless they had serious medical problems and unexpected bad health , I don't feel sorry for Americans that are broke at 65 years old.
 
Originally Posted by HowAboutThis
Originally Posted by Railrust
It simply amazes me how people can live above their means and sleep well at night. Me? I'd be a wreck.

My truck payment is $290 a month (2018 Silverado LT, decent,y equipped, nothing crazy). I think I received something like $12k in factory rebates and ended up paying $33k for it. I put a couple grand down and received $8k on my trade. My old car needed $4k in repairs (tires, brakes, struts, burning a lot of oil, 178,000 miles). I figured it was time to get rid of it. I'll tell you what, even though it was time to let go, I still hate paying that $290 a month, never mind the ridiculous excise tax bill every year ($500 plus), and the higher insurance. Would have been maybe much cheaper to keep the other vehicle, maybe next time I will.

But try living in the US with a family of four nowadays, unless your wife and you are making over $250k a year, things can get tight.

Now I'm talking living to these standards/living like this...take one nice family trip a year, go out to dinner once a week, own a nice 2,000 plus square foot home, own two half decent vehicles, pay for one kid to go to college (or pay half for both), everyone owns a cell phone, each kid plays one sport and we all wear name brand shoes/sneakers and have a half decent wardrobe, with both kids in braces. Good luck.

^^^And that's no extravagant life style. That's no country club, keeping up with the Jones "lifestyle". Tats a decent house, nothing crazy, a couple cars and a vacation. That's working all [censored] week, maybe taking on a few things to make an extra $10k a year and then going out to dinner with the family on a Saturday night. Goin out to dinner with four...having one app, a couple drinks...that's $150-$200. Going food shopping for a family of four is $200 plus a week. That's over $18 a year just on FOOD. That's not going to the movies, which we don't do anymore. That's not stopping for coffee at Dunks, which we don't do. That's not sending out for lunch at work, that's Brown bagging it. That's not getting pizza on a Friday night, it's just going out as a family once a [censored] week so we don't go insane and feel as if we worked all [censored] week for nothing. So we don't feel like we burned the candle at both ends and ran around like morons, for zilch.

Without getting too personal with finances, I make "pretty good money", my wife does pretty well. We're not pulling in $300k a year, but we're doing better than average, we're pretty fortunate. We don't live like rock stars, we pay our bills, we save for retirement. I know people making the same...maybe a little more, maybe a little less and they live way above what I'm doing...out to dinner four times a week, vacation, five times a year, two $50,000 dollar cars in the driveway, summer home, expensive gym membership. I don't know if they're getting money from family or if they're just in debt up to their eyeballs...probably both.



Compared to the rest of the world, or even the 1950s, that's extravagant. Just an FYI.

Was going to say, felt rich to me. I cringe if we go out to eat and the bill is over $50 for our family of 4. Is nice to go out but sure is cheaper to eat at home. These days I'm not even sure I "like" eating out, food is better at home, as is the ambiance.

I don't think we've had a family vacation in two years, been too busy over the summer months. I think our "vacations" are spent visiting family on the weekend.
 
You can spend it now, or you can spend it later.
Let's see, if I drove nothing more expensive than a 1986 Civic or a 1993 Toyota PU, I could save sooooo much.
Both are long runners and really cheap to maintain.
If you don't do that you are foolish, right?
If you drive a Beemer, Lexus, Caddy, etc. you are an idiot!
And forget about them stupid Teslas! And old Corvettes are the devil!
Don't ask me how I know about old Corvettes...

Enjoy your life within reason. But remember, you are not gonna work forever.
Financial security is a long term process.
Good luck.
 
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Not to get off topic:


But when I was in high school I was dating a girl that her parents loved to travel. They would spend a week in Italy, another week in Spain and finally a week in England. 3 week vacation overseas.

A few months later she tells me her dad is very stressed because money is tight and work for her dad (architect) is really slow. Now they had to ‘circle the financial wagons' and go on a crazy strict budget.
33.gif


I told her that her parents are not as wealthy as they think they are..... (big mistake).
She got soooo made and almost kicked my [censored]. LOL
smile.gif


Bottom line, just accept the fact you are middle class and budget your money accordingly.
 
New car buying on debt does not lead to any significant wealth building an carries risk.

Wealthy people do not leverage buying on cars credit to build more wealth. People justifying debt to perform investing because they cannot afford both do.
 
Originally Posted by madRiver
New car buying on debt does not lead to any significant wealth building an carries risk.

Wealthy people do not leverage buying on cars credit to build more wealth. People justifying debt to perform investing because they cannot afford both do.



Bingo!

But I'm grateful for those wanting loans they can barely afford because it's how we keep used car prices down...if everyone paid cash and tried to buy used, used cars would be too expensive.
 
I'm a retired teacher, so average middle class at best. I have never bought a used car. I've only financed when there were specials like 0% interest or when it was necessary to qualify for some other incentive. And I've always paid those off as soon as the contract allowed. As soon as I buy the new one I start saving for the next one.

I know people tell me that new cars are a waste of money and that rich people buy used cars, but I've never been able to shake the idea that if it was a good car then then the owner wouldn't have wanted to sell it so soon.
 
Originally Posted by Elkins45
I know people tell me that new cars are a waste of money and that rich people buy used cars, but I've never been able to shake the idea that if it was a good car then then the owner wouldn't have wanted to sell it so soon.
I wouldn't call it a waste of money if you keep it for a long time.
 
Originally Posted by Elkins45
I know people tell me that new cars are a waste of money and that rich people buy used cars, but I've never been able to shake the idea that if it was a good car then then the owner wouldn't have wanted to sell it so soon.


It's limited thinking that they got rid of the car because it was bad. People get rid of cars all the time for various reasons just like they sell houses for various reasons. Job loss, illness, can't afford it, want a new one or bored with the car are all reasons that people may want to get rid of a car. Of course too many problems is also another one, but that's why you do research on the car before buying it.
 
Originally Posted by HowAboutThis

Bingo!

But I'm grateful for those wanting loans they can barely afford because it's how we keep used car prices down...if everyone paid cash and tried to buy used, used cars would be too expensive.


If everyone paid cash we'd be driving Mitsubishi Mirages. The automakers would decontent their cars until our fleet looks like some 3rd world country's.

We'd also be stronger as a people for it, even if it's detrimental to "the economy". Having the average Joe in debt is conversely good for "the economy".

Used cars, from dealers, are already too expensive. One has to go "off the cliff" of 10 years/ 200k miles where even a buy-here-pay-here lot won't finance to find decent deals on cars, because I, the buyer, am competing against other cash buyers.
 
Originally Posted by Wolf359
... Land can be taken through eminent domain. ...


Sure, happens all the time. Invariably when things start happening, somebody shows up wanting to widen the road, or lay a utility easement. They have to pay highest and best use for the sq ft they want to take, so you get an "appraisal" for free, although depending on the entity, it can be anywhere from trying to steal something and you know you are going to be in Court with them, to being somewhat reasonable.

Folks who can't handle things like this might well be better off in a mutual fund. If Souter's debacle is the one I am thinking of, it served him right, and many states passed protective laws to nullify that decision, but AFAIK, my state is not one of them that did. I have not seen eminent domain used in that manner around here, but I would agree that use of it in that way is thievery.
 
Originally Posted by Win
Originally Posted by Wolf359
... Land can be taken through eminent domain. ...


Sure, happens all the time. Invariably when things start happening, somebody shows up wanting to widen the road, or lay a utility easement. They have to pay highest and best use for the sq ft they want to take, so you get an "appraisal" for free, although depending on the entity, it can be anywhere from trying to steal something and you know you are going to be in Court with them, to being somewhat reasonable.

Folks who can't handle things like this might well be better off in a mutual fund. If Souter's debacle is the one I am thinking of, it served him right, and many states passed protective laws to nullify that decision, but AFAIK, my state is not one of them that did. I have not seen eminent domain used in that manner around here, but I would agree that use of it in that way is thievery.


This was a prior debate where someone felt that land was a better deal than the stock market. I was just pointing out the drawbacks although as a real estate broker, I'm not against it as a specific investment. Just pointed out that it could be taken away by the state through eminent domain, has taxes and usually for just land, you have to pay cash as it's hard to get financing for just land. If it has a house on it and you can get a mortgage where you can borrow 4x the downpayment, then you have some leverage working for you. So even if it only goes up with inflation at 2%, your actual return is more like 5x or 10% although the interest paid cuts into total return.

The Souter debacle is where he ruled that the state could take land from people for a commercial enterprise. That's when the guy tried to take Souter's home for a museum/hotel called Lost Liberty hotel. Then they passed some state law outlawing that so it never happened. And it turned out that the people who lost their land never even had anything built on it as once the tax credits ran out, the company withdrew from the area.
 
Originally Posted by HowAboutThis
Originally Posted by madRiver
New car buying on debt does not lead to any significant wealth building an carries risk.

Wealthy people do not leverage buying on cars credit to build more wealth. People justifying debt to perform investing because they cannot afford both do.



Bingo!

But I'm grateful for those wanting loans they can barely afford because it's how we keep used car prices down...if everyone paid cash and tried to buy used, used cars would be too expensive.


Oh please!
Many of us can well afford to buy new cars so we do thereby avoiding the unknown unknowns with any used purchase.
If the seller is offering free financing with no discount for writing a check for the purchase, then only a fool would pay cash.
Not everyone is living hand to mouth and most people with a few pennies to rub together aren't spendthrifts and are financially savvy and also have solid incomes and credit scores.
I also know of nobody with any real money who would seriously consider a used daily driver.
An exotic toy, sure, but not for a daily driver.
Just doesn't make sense not to buy new if you can well afford to do so.
 
I paid $700 last month. By choice. I financed because it was 1%. I pay whatever I feel like. I could have paid cash but 1% is lower than inflation and keeping money in a decent savings earns more than that. I like that people buy what they can't afford and turn in the lease so I get a car with 25k miles for $20k less.
 
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