LSPI Event - ?

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josephp732

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I have a 2015 Ford Expedition with Gen 1 Ecoboost V6 (twin turbo), HD tow package - rated to tow 9,200lbs.
Since new, after the factory break-in oil, I have used PUP 5W-30.

I was towing NJ to FL my boat and trailer weight about 5,500lbs and the SUV was also pretty loaded with stuff.
The boat is a center console and it was shrink-wrapped - so a lot of front windage and drag.

I stopped for the night in Jacksonville, FL, in the early morning I jumped back on I-95 North to take the 295 West exchange to get to I-10 West on the way to Tampa.
The I-95 to 295 ramp is a little steep, as I was making the turn up the ramp and as I could see the 295 roadway come into view, I depressed the accelerator to get up to speed and merge into commuter traffic.

As I depressed the accelerator the engine lost power, I pushed the accelerator to the floor but the engine and turbo's wouldn't spool-up. The engine threw a check-engine light and I limped over to the shoulder of the road. Turned the truck off, waited a minute then restarted the engine and drove on with-out any other issues. When I got to Tampa a Ford dealer put a scan device on the truck but no codes came up and it was like the event never happened. It was a bit concerning at the time losing power while trying to merge in to heavy traffic.

Does this sound like a LSPI event? I guess I will be changing the oil from the PUP to a SN+ low calcium oil....
 
Originally Posted by josephp732
I have a 2015 Ford Expedition with Gen 1 Ecoboost V6 (twin turbo), HD tow package - rated to tow 9,200lbs.
Since new, after the factory break-in oil, I have used PUP 5W-30.

I was towing NJ to FL my boat and trailer weight about 5,500lbs and the SUV was also pretty loaded with stuff.
The boat is a center console and it was shrink-wrapped - so a lot of front windage and drag.

I stopped for the night in Jacksonville, FL, in the early morning I jumped back on I-95 North to take the 295 West exchange to get to I-10 West on the way to Tampa.
The I-95 to 295 ramp is a little steep, as I was making the turn up the ramp and as I could see the 295 roadway come into view, I depressed the accelerator to get up to speed and merge into commuter traffic.

As I depressed the accelerator the engine lost power, I pushed the accelerator to the floor but the engine and turbo's wouldn't spool-up. The engine threw a check-engine light and I limped over to the shoulder of the road. Turned the truck off, waited a minute then restarted the engine and drove on with-out any other issues. When I got to Tampa a Ford dealer put a scan device on the truck but no codes came up and it was like the event never happened. It was a bit concerning at the time losing power while trying to merge in to heavy traffic.

Does this sound like a LSPI event? I guess I will be changing the oil from the PUP to a SN+ low calcium oil....



I have no idea on what modern-day lspi events do.
(I do know) SN Plus lessens the effects of lspi. It doesn't prevent it. Were you running Top-Tier 93 octane during that trip? If not, you should have been. It also lessens the effects.
Were you hearing any engine marbles upon some steep climbs prior?
 
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No I was running "regular" 89 octane Shell gas. No strange sounds that I could discern coming from the engine up to or after this event.
 
What RPM was the engine at when this happened? LSPI happens at low engine RPM (hence the LS part), basically under "lugging" conditions, which your drive doesn't sound conducive to.
 
What's concerning is the fact you saw a check engine light go on, and the dealership says that they can't see one..........shouldn't that code be stored until cleared?
 
Nope. You did not have LSPI.

What you probably had happen is the common Ecoboost issue where atmospheric moisture condenses into water, then fills up the lower level of the intercooler.

Upon heavy throttle application, the water "slug" from the intercooler migrates into the engine and causes misfires. That in turn causes the engine to go into limp-home mode.

Shutdown and restart fixes the limp home mode.

The ECU will not record any issues when this happens.


I drilled a #30 hole at the bottom of the intercooler on the DISCHARGE SIDE. It allow water to constantly spray out, without allowing enough air to lower boost or affect operation. In essence, a tiny leak. This is a common fix, and is better than Ford's fix of blocking off the intercooler to raise it's temperature and therefore increase the temp of the intake air. (lowering HP)
 
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more than likely the engine got a big slug of water from water in the intercooler.
 
Another common Ecoboost issue is spark plugs. They can misfire under boost, leading to bucking under heavy acceleration. However, this generally does not illuminate the check engine light. EB plugs have a real world life of 30 to 50 thousand miles. Also the gap should be a bit smaller than the plugs originally had. I believe the current plugs and consensus is that 0.032 inches is the correct gap to prevent misfires under heavy boost.


EDIT: If you drill the hole, AND you have the Ford service bulletin that blocks off part of the front of the intercooler. You can now remove the Ford service bulletin to maximize intercooler efficiency.
 
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I know I had a LSPI event in my Hyundai Kona AWD 1.6T early on with FF oil and 87 octane, even though it is speced for 87 octane. I only now use 89 thur 93 octane and never had another event. I get full 17 psi boost at 1,450 rpm. I pushed on the accelerator and WHAM it's like the engine flipped over in the car and it was not a transmission event . The whole car shook., we are talking loud major event that would make you crap your pants. This is far more likely a LSPI event then what you describe.

I have not nailed down my oil yet but have been running Mobil1 5w-30 ESP and now have in Amsoil 0w-40 SS. While the Mobil 1 ESP is not LSPI approved, as with all no racing Mobil 1 oils it is basically a very good non-LSPI oil with very low calcium. ZERO worry's it would pass if tested since it has the same calcium as their approved oils. I still have 14 Qts of ESP left so it will be my oil for a while.
 
Originally Posted by incognito_2u
What's concerning is the fact you saw a check engine light go on, and the dealership says that they can't see one..........shouldn't that code be stored until cleared?


Right! How do get a CEL without a DTC? Someone explain that one to me.. even if the fault cleared it should be in the history.
 
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Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by incognito_2u
What's concerning is the fact you saw a check engine light go on, and the dealership says that they can't see one..........shouldn't that code be stored until cleared?


Right! How do get a CEL without a DTC? Someone explain that one to me.. even if the fault cleared it should be in the history.


"pending codes" happen all the time, if they don't happen again, no hard code can be seen when you pull the codes at a later time.
 
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by incognito_2u
What's concerning is the fact you saw a check engine light go on, and the dealership says that they can't see one..........shouldn't that code be stored until cleared?


Right! How do get a CEL without a DTC? Someone explain that one to me.. even if the fault cleared it should be in the history.


There is some speculation that Ford experienced this during ecoboost testing and did not consider it an emissions related problem. Therefore while the ECU recognizes a misfire, and goes into limp mode, it's due to external factors (moist air) , rather than internal failure.
 
Originally Posted by Cujet
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by incognito_2u
What's concerning is the fact you saw a check engine light go on, and the dealership says that they can't see one..........shouldn't that code be stored until cleared?


Right! How do get a CEL without a DTC? Someone explain that one to me.. even if the fault cleared it should be in the history.


There is some speculation that Ford experienced this during ecoboost testing and did not consider it an emissions related problem. Therefore while the ECU recognizes a misfire, and goes into limp mode, it's due to external factors (moist air) , rather than internal failure.



Ok, but where is the fault code that triggered the CEL to begin with??? Not storing the DTC would be a new one for me..

I get that a ECU could reset the DTC if it determined there wasn't a bona fide problem, but to get that DTC to trigger the CEL to begin with, the misfire count had to exceed a set threshold to begin with. Where is that DTC??? Seems bizarre that Ford would decide to not even log the DTC.
 
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The only strategy that makes sense with di's is to spec hunt and find an oil that is synthetic full of lspi quenchers like high moly and zinc and find a weight that has the fewest vii's possible. PUP aint it, neither is blended motorcraft.
 
Originally Posted by Tman220
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by incognito_2u
What's concerning is the fact you saw a check engine light go on, and the dealership says that they can't see one..........shouldn't that code be stored until cleared?


Right! How do get a CEL without a DTC? Someone explain that one to me.. even if the fault cleared it should be in the history.


"pending codes" happen all the time, if they don't happen again, no hard code can be seen when you pull the codes at a later time.


Right but my understanding is a pending fault won't trigger a CEL. A fault is pending until it exceeds the limit, then it either gets logged as a fault (DTC) or cleared if the fault condition doesn't result in a DTC in X amount of cycles???...the OP actually got a CEL, why would a pending trigger a CEL but not be recorded?? I guess I wasn't aware a pending can trigger a CEL, I don't think I've ever seen that happen.
 
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If it were a LSPI event, you wouldn't have driven off as the engine would have been to damaged. Cujet's post sounds like what I've read and heard of.
 
Cujet - thank you for the info. After doing some research and reading through some Ford sites - what I experienced is the way most people describe what you outlined.

It was an interesting experience and I will look at making your modification.

Regarding the event - it definitely threw a CEL, went in to limp mode, I then turned off the truck, restarted it and about 4 hours later when taken into the Ford dealer the tech told me no codes where found.
 
Originally Posted by Cujet

I drilled a #30 hole at the bottom of the intercooler on the DISCHARGE SIDE. It allow water to constantly spray out, without allowing enough air to lower boost or affect operation


I don't think it would need to be that large (.128")

A #50 (.070") should be big enough to not plug up.
 
Originally Posted by josephp732
Regarding the event - it definitely threw a CEL, went in to limp mode, I then turned off the truck, restarted it and about 4 hours later when taken into the Ford dealer the tech told me no codes where found.


I wonder with a 4hr window of time having elapsed without another fault condition, the ECU cleared the memory prior to you checking in at the dealer. I know my ECU will eventually clear DTC's after a period of time, i don't know how much time must elapse for this to happen. That could explain why the dealership didn't find a DTC in memory. 4hrs seems awfully short but who knows, that could be standard. It's not something I've ever really looked into
 
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