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Re: How angry pilots got the Navy to stop dismissing UFO sightings [Re: buster] #5134274
06/14/19 05:54 PM
06/14/19 05:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,744
Canuck living in California
KrisZ Offline
KrisZ  Offline

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,744
Canuck living in California
As with any leaks be it corporate, government etc. these days you simply can't know what was a leak and what was a "leak".

One thing is for sure, this type of footage is clearly aimed at people's imaginations. Give some fuzzy, out of focus image or footage and people will fill in the blanks for themselves. Stuff for mass media consumption is always carefully arranged.


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Re: How angry pilots got the Navy to stop dismissing UFO sightings [Re: Wolf359] #5134281
06/14/19 06:01 PM
06/14/19 06:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,744
Canuck living in California
KrisZ Offline
KrisZ  Offline

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,744
Canuck living in California
Originally Posted by Wolf359

I think people also forget that radio waves weaken with the square of the distance so the signal we're sending is very weak, you'd basically have to be pointing an antenna right at us in order to pick anything up.

Even though quantum entanglement is instantaneous, you still have to send the particles in two different directions and then once you make the measurement, the spin on the other particle is known instantaneously so you still have a speed of light problem and no way use it to transmit information as spin is random.

Speaking of magical technology, if you look up the quantum hall effect, it turns out that in order to run a quantum Monte Carlo simulation on a few hundred particles, the difficultly increases exponentially with each additional particle so that once you hit 200, it requires more matter in all the universe to build a computer that could simulate it. Now imagine a computer that could do it for all the universe.

https://cosmosmagazine.com/physics/physicists-find-we-re-not-living-in-a-computer-simulation


Nice, thank you for sharing this. Pretty mind blowing how complex the real world is.


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Re: How angry pilots got the Navy to stop dismissing UFO sightings [Re: KrisZ] #5134284
06/14/19 06:03 PM
06/14/19 06:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,872
MA
Wolf359 Offline
Wolf359  Offline

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,872
MA
Originally Posted by KrisZ
As with any leaks be it corporate, government etc. these days you simply can't know what was a leak and what was a "leak".

One thing is for sure, this type of footage is clearly aimed at people's imaginations. Give some fuzzy, out of focus image or footage and people will fill in the blanks for themselves. Stuff for mass media consumption is always carefully arranged.


I think you are putting the cart before the horse. The stuff that's clear and looks like a balloon, cloud or plane just gets labeled as such. The stuff they can't figure out, they by default claim it's a UFO and technically that's correct as it's an unidentified flying object.

Re: How angry pilots got the Navy to stop dismissing UFO sightings [Re: talest] #5134320
06/14/19 06:46 PM
06/14/19 06:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,177
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,177
'Stralia
Originally Posted by talest
There is a very clear and logical explanation as to UFOs and what they are etc, that they choose to manifest themselves as these weird things. Some people choose to accept and some do not. Goes along with the New Age movement etc.. be not deceived..


Yes, I find the fey explaination better than the beings in machines...

Take Ayhausca (sp)....there's an amazon plant that has DMT...but it's useless as an enzyme in your stomach neutralises it...so another plant with a monooxidase inhibitor needs to be taken.

How did the natives, with thousands and thousands of plants to choose from pick just the right ones (particularly as you need the right one to even find the DMT in the first plant) ?

According to their Shamans...the mushrooms told them...same mushrooms that told them that they were in interdimensioal space, and emerge here as mushrooms with psilocybin to communicate with humans over the distance.


If it's the truth....it can handle the pressure !!!
Re: How angry pilots got the Navy to stop dismissing UFO sightings [Re: KrisZ] #5134334
06/14/19 07:01 PM
06/14/19 07:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,540
Nashville, TN via Memphis
john_pifer Offline
john_pifer  Offline

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,540
Nashville, TN via Memphis
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Love the various "examples".

"The universe is so vast, there must be other intelligent life" - sure how would they find us in this vastness?
Oh, the technology that would be like "magic" to us, just like the Spanish. But Spanish manifested themselves right away to the original inhabitants and their technology, although seemed magical, was in full display. A superior civilization, with superior technology has no reason hide itself and its technology.

So where are the examples of this alien technology you guys keep mentioning? I'm sure the answer would be that it's probably part of that magical technology, so we can't even perceive them lol.

Again, how can logic and reason stand against wild imagination?


Originally Posted by KrisZ
Originally Posted by Wolf359

There are probably other civilizations out there, but with light as the limiting factor, they're probably beyond reach. If we can somehow do 10-20% light speed, Andromeda at 2.5 million light years away would take 12.5-25 million light years to reach. Our species hasn't even been around that long.


It's not just the travel I'm talking about. We have been emitting man-made electromagnetic waves for about only 100 years. Even assuming the best case scenario that the signals are uniformally distributed around our planet, essentially making it as an expandable bubble in all directions, and that all the signals are above the cosmic noise and have the power to travel millions of years, that only gives us a 100 light year bubble where we are visible. So we are pretty much invisible to the whole universe, as far as signs of intelligent life goes.

Sure, another civilization may have our solar system classified as one that could support life, if they happened to stumble upon it, but chances are that ours would me one of many. Without signs of intelligent life, it would be the luck of the draw they they would decide to make the journey to our system.

Another factor is time. I don't think "believers" realize that the observable universe is a view to the past. When we're talking millions of light years away, what you see today is not what it actually is in reality. So going by your example of Andromeda being 2.5 million light years away, if we had the technology to travel there today at light speed, it would take us 2.5 million years to get there, but the time we got there, it would've been 5 million year difference between what we saw today and by the time we arrived. In 5 million years a lot can happen to living organisms and the planets themselves.

But heck, I'm sure the magical technology would take care of that too. LOL


You're still looking at it through the lens of current human technology. Who, today, knows what technology could be developed in thousands or millions of years?

There's really no technological problem that can't be overcome by an engineer, given enough time and knowledge. I believe, even the laws of physics that we're bound by, today, are able to be, and will be, overcome eventually. And, probably have been solved, by other civilizations who have been around exponentially longer than we have.


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Re: How angry pilots got the Navy to stop dismissing UFO sightings [Re: john_pifer] #5134350
06/14/19 07:26 PM
06/14/19 07:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,177
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,177
'Stralia
Originally Posted by john_pifer
There's really no technological problem that can't be overcome by an engineer, given enough time and knowledge. I believe, even the laws of physics that we're bound by, today, are able to be, and will be, overcome eventually. And, probably have been solved, by other civilizations who have been around exponentially longer than we have.


Newton developed his laws, in an era where speeds approximated zero compared to light speeds.

Einstein didn't make Newton wrong, as Relativistic equations drop back into Newton's world at near zero speeds (compared to light).

I would not be surprised if one day we don't have another expansion of understanding similarly


If it's the truth....it can handle the pressure !!!
Re: How angry pilots got the Navy to stop dismissing UFO sightings [Re: john_pifer] #5134372
06/14/19 07:50 PM
06/14/19 07:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,744
Canuck living in California
KrisZ Offline
KrisZ  Offline

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,744
Canuck living in California
Originally Posted by john_pifer


You're still looking at it through the lens of current human technology. Who, today, knows what technology could be developed in thousands or millions of years?

There's really no technological problem that can't be overcome by an engineer, given enough time and knowledge. I believe, even the laws of physics that we're bound by, today, are able to be, and will be, overcome eventually. And, probably have been solved, by other civilizations who have been around exponentially longer than we have.


I don't disagree, but on what basis do you propose that some other civilization can exist, uninterrupted from all sorts of events, internal and external, continuously developing their technology for millions of years? Given our own little backyard and how many times the technological clock has been reset for us, I find it highly improbable. And our known history goes back only few thousands of years and even most of that is quite sketchy. Do we know how the pyramids were made? Could we even make one using our own technology that at least would be equal to the originals?

Yes, we've made huge progress, but also lost a lot on the way and who's to say it will not be lost again?


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Re: How angry pilots got the Navy to stop dismissing UFO sightings [Re: john_pifer] #5134413
06/14/19 08:46 PM
06/14/19 08:46 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,872
MA
Wolf359 Offline
Wolf359  Offline

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,872
MA
Originally Posted by john_pifer
You're still looking at it through the lens of current human technology. Who, today, knows what technology could be developed in thousands or millions of years?

There's really no technological problem that can't be overcome by an engineer, given enough time and knowledge. I believe, even the laws of physics that we're bound by, today, are able to be, and will be, overcome eventually. And, probably have been solved, by other civilizations who have been around exponentially longer than we have.


Well some people have practice believing in 6 impossible things before breakfast but I have a slightly harder time doing so.

Here's some things I think are impossible. Finding the last digit of pi, changing the value of pi, something shorter than the planck length, faster than the speed of light, time travel, anti-gravity (or if it's ever found, I'd like to see it used on a black hole.)

Remember, it was Scotty who said he couldn't change the laws of physics and he was an engineer.

Maybe of the laws of physics come from observational data, then the theories come to fit the data. That's where relativity comes from. And then sometimes there are theories that lead to observational data like relativity which predicted gravitational waves. So you can only do so much engineering to fit the current theories. That's why they're still working on the engineering for fusion power even though the theory has been around for a while. There doesn't seem to be any solid theories for some of those impossible things I've mentioned. But who knows, there's also the talk of the technological singularity where humanity reaches a point where we can't imagine what happens beyond that point.

Re: How angry pilots got the Navy to stop dismissing UFO sightings [Re: KrisZ] #5134420
06/14/19 08:55 PM
06/14/19 08:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
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MA
Wolf359 Offline
Wolf359  Offline

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 6,872
MA
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Do we know how the pyramids were made? Could we even make one using our own technology that at least would be equal to the originals?


Well if you google it, latest theory is that they poured water on the sand to reduce friction and that there were water ports near the pyramids so that's how they transported the blocks to the place. Somewhat mundane and not as interesting has having aliens do it. Doesn't sell as many books or spawn questionable TV shows.

https://allthatsinteresting.com/how-the-pyramids-were-built

Re: How angry pilots got the Navy to stop dismissing UFO sightings [Re: KrisZ] #5134582
06/15/19 02:05 AM
06/15/19 02:05 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 21,301
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline

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Posts: 21,301
PNW
Originally Posted by KrisZ
I don't disagree, but on what basis do you propose that some other civilization can exist, uninterrupted from all sorts of events, internal and external, continuously developing their technology for millions of years? Given our own little backyard and how many times the technological clock has been reset for us, I find it highly improbable. And our known history goes back only few thousands of years and even most of that is quite sketchy.


Maybe they live on a unified strife free planet, and don't act like humans.

Re: How angry pilots got the Navy to stop dismissing UFO sightings [Re: Shannow] #5134635
06/15/19 06:22 AM
06/15/19 06:22 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 477
US
talest Offline
talest  Offline

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 477
US
Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by talest
There is a very clear and logical explanation as to UFOs and what they are etc, that they choose to manifest themselves as these weird things. Some people choose to accept and some do not. Goes along with the New Age movement etc.. be not deceived..


Yes, I find the fey explaination better than the beings in machines...

Take Ayhausca (sp)....there's an amazon plant that has DMT...but it's useless as an enzyme in your stomach neutralises it...so another plant with a monooxidase inhibitor needs to be taken.

How did the natives, with thousands and thousands of plants to choose from pick just the right ones (particularly as you need the right one to even find the DMT in the first plant) ?

According to their Shamans...the mushrooms told them...same mushrooms that told them that they were in interdimensioal space, and emerge here as mushrooms with psilocybin to communicate with humans over the distance.


Sounds a lot like Peyote https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/peyote-addiction

Quote
Peyote is a small cactus that contains buttons shaped like a disc. These buttons can be removed from the cactus and then they can be dried out and chewed or soaked in water. The cactus itself is small and doesn’t have a spine, and the alkaloids contained within peyote are psychoactive, which is one of the reasons people use this substance, although it’s believed to have some medicinal applications as well among indigenous people.

The peyote species grow low to the ground, and the cactus itself is usually blue-green or yellow-green, although it may also appear somewhat reddish. The cactus grows as flat spheres, and they open during the day. There is pink fruit found on peyote cacti that are edible, and it’s a slow growing species.

In South Texas, while peyote can occur naturally it is currently named as an endangered species. Some of the slang terms used to describe peyote include buttons, mescal, nubs, tops, and mesc.

Re: How angry pilots got the Navy to stop dismissing UFO sightings [Re: Wolf359] #5134639
06/15/19 06:26 AM
06/15/19 06:26 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 477
US
talest Offline
talest  Offline

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Posts: 477
US
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Do we know how the pyramids were made? Could we even make one using our own technology that at least would be equal to the originals?


Well if you google it, latest theory is that they poured water on the sand to reduce friction and that there were water ports near the pyramids so that's how they transported the blocks to the place. Somewhat mundane and not as interesting has having aliens do it. Doesn't sell as many books or spawn questionable TV shows.

https://allthatsinteresting.com/how-the-pyramids-were-built


Quickly to add that the chisels to have been used likely could not have been hard enough to shape the rocks.
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by KrisZ
As with any leaks be it corporate, government etc. these days you simply can't know what was a leak and what was a "leak".

One thing is for sure, this type of footage is clearly aimed at people's imaginations. Give some fuzzy, out of focus image or footage and people will fill in the blanks for themselves. Stuff for mass media consumption is always carefully arranged.


I think you are putting the cart before the horse. The stuff that's clear and looks like a balloon, cloud or plane just gets labeled as such. The stuff they can't figure out, they by default claim it's a UFO and technically that's correct as it's an unidentified flying object.


[Linked Image]

LOL

Re: How angry pilots got the Navy to stop dismissing UFO sightings [Re: ZeeOSix] #5135180
06/15/19 07:19 PM
06/15/19 07:19 PM
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Posts: 6,872
MA
Wolf359 Offline
Wolf359  Offline

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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by KrisZ
I don't disagree, but on what basis do you propose that some other civilization can exist, uninterrupted from all sorts of events, internal and external, continuously developing their technology for millions of years? Given our own little backyard and how many times the technological clock has been reset for us, I find it highly improbable. And our known history goes back only few thousands of years and even most of that is quite sketchy.


Maybe they live on a unified strife free planet, and don't act like humans.


You mean there could be a united federation of planets made up of aliens?

Re: How angry pilots got the Navy to stop dismissing UFO sightings [Re: Wolf359] #5135284
06/15/19 09:09 PM
06/15/19 09:09 PM
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ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline

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Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by KrisZ
I don't disagree, but on what basis do you propose that some other civilization can exist, uninterrupted from all sorts of events, internal and external, continuously developing their technology for millions of years? Given our own little backyard and how many times the technological clock has been reset for us, I find it highly improbable. And our known history goes back only few thousands of years and even most of that is quite sketchy.

Maybe they live on a unified strife free planet, and don't act like humans.

You mean there could be a united federation of planets made up of aliens?

No, all inhabitants of a planet being unified and strife free, working together to figure out how to technologically advance and survive a million years instead of trying to annihilate each other. I imagine if a planet's civilization was a million years old, that might be the state of operation it would eventually have to become.

Re: How angry pilots got the Navy to stop dismissing UFO sightings [Re: buster] #5135371
06/15/19 11:44 PM
06/15/19 11:44 PM
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California
Vuflanovsky Offline
Vuflanovsky  Offline

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California
Yep, I would think that extrapolating our progress or failure timeline in relation to other potential civilizations / federations / or unions we can't conceive of might be a little too one dimensional of a thought process. If the civilization has the ability to offload lifeforms from a dying planet to another one ( one of say 200 in the group ) or to an artificial satellite that serves the same purpose...while this civilization / federation / or union we can't conceive of has existed for hundreds of thousands of years, the earth history analogy probably isn't too relevant.

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