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AR-style rifle -- suggestions #5135217
06/15/19 08:07 PM
06/15/19 08:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,775
Flaherty, KY
92saturnsl2 Offline OP
92saturnsl2  Offline OP

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,775
Flaherty, KY
I want to pick up a .223 AR-style rifle in the near future. I don't have a great deal of knowledge/experience with them, other than shooting other people's a bunch. Ideally would like to find something in the sub $800 range. Rugar AR-556 is one I'm looking at, but there's also Springfield Armory and Smith & Wesson M&P Sport II to consider. I haven't seen any others, but would like to know if there's others that are comparable.

Are there any features or attributes that separate one from the other, or are these essentially the same thing from a different manufacturer? Very curious if there's something that sets one or the other apart and might make it a better value. I assume they're all similar in that they can be upgraded-- i.e replacing the upper & lowers and customize with sight rails and such, is this correct? Any help would be appreciated.


1985 F-250HD 7.5L 4x4 135k- Castrol GTX 15w-40
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Re: AR-style rifle -- suggestions [Re: 92saturnsl2] #5135273
06/15/19 09:00 PM
06/15/19 09:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,104
Elizabeth. Colorado
c502cid Offline
c502cid  Offline

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,104
Elizabeth. Colorado
I have all three you mention, all solid value shooters. Look at online deals, right now can get S&W for $449, Ruger for $479, and the Saint for $619, all with free freight and no tax.


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Re: AR-style rifle -- suggestions [Re: 92saturnsl2] #5135286
06/15/19 09:12 PM
06/15/19 09:12 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,853
West Michigan
buck91 Offline
buck91  Offline

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,853
West Michigan
I've found my PSA builds to be completely reliable. Other than that, I'd consider 5.56 vs Wylde chambering.


2011 F150 4x4 5.0L
1996 Mustang GT 5spd/ragtop
Re: AR-style rifle -- suggestions [Re: 92saturnsl2] #5135301
06/15/19 09:30 PM
06/15/19 09:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 477
US
talest Offline
talest  Offline

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 477
US
https://www.usa-gun-shop.com/5-best-ar15s-500-less-cheap-guns-for-sale/

Quote

AR-15s For $500: Low Budget AR-15s That Work
You don’t need to spend the Earth on an AR-15 rifle. You can buy a gun online for just $500 right now.

You should start with the cheap and cheerful semi-automatic rifles, then progressively talk yourself into more expensive weapons and fights at home over just why you have to buy guns online at 3am.

That’s the American way and you can build up to the best AR-15 rifle for sale under $1000.

And when you have truly mastered hiding receipts, or sleeping on the couch and just don’t care anymore, you can progress to buying the best $2000 AR-15 for sale online. Then after the divorce, you can just say screw it and buy a designer AR-15 as nobody is the boss of you anymore.

Start With a Cheap AR-15, Then Go Designer Rifle Shopping
Let’s get you on that glorious road to success right now, with the cheap AR-15 rifles for $500 that do the job you want.

A basic, $500 AR-15 will likely be a perfect home defense weapon and it will be as accurate as you will ever need up to 100 yards.

After that, you might be able to tell the difference in a Pepsi Challenge with some of the best AR-15s for sale.

We kind of hope you can to be honest. Or the whole industry lives in a house of lies and we should all chop in our Daniel Defense AR-15 for a Palmetto State Armory AR-15 for sale.

But unless you’re going competitive shooting, in which case don’t cheap out on your equipment, you’ll do just fine with these low-budget AR-15s. So don’t be tempted by the total no-names in the gunbroker, get yourself a great, cheap AR-15.

Now, we had to stretch the budget to $550, just so we could give you some options.

$500 is right down the bottom end and you are getting in to the used market at that point and looking hopefully in the windows of your local gun stores. So we took a little leeway for a big-name rifle…

Here are the best cheapest AR-15 for $500 or less, or a little more, we can find…

Where to buy cheap AR-15 rifles online now
You should always check the sales, because you never know when an exceptional rifle is going to hit the clearance racks. But browsing the sites can be a pain, so we have done the searches for you.

Get the best AR-15 at the best price by simply clicking these links and going direct to the secret discount AR-15 sales pages. Check out the 300 AAC Blackout rifles while you’re there too.

Did you know Palmetto State Armory sells everything from a semi auto FN SCAR through to Sig Sauer CCWs at knockdown prices? You do now…


DMPS Oracle A3 - A Cheap AR-15 that works
1. DPMS Oracle A3


https://www.brownells.com/firearms/...=yd3xN9U88xyJRFjwUx0Mo382UklUPfRkET9pVs0

[Linked Image]

Re: AR-style rifle -- suggestions [Re: 92saturnsl2] #5135344
06/15/19 10:49 PM
06/15/19 10:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,998
NJ
Leo99 Offline
Leo99  Offline

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,998
NJ
Get a rifle that is rated to shoot 5.56. 5.56 is slightly higher compression and the specs for 5.56 and .223 are almost identical. A 5.56 rifle can shoot both 5.56 and .223. I have a S&W Sport and shoot the cheap Russian ammo.

You can also worry about twist rate. I don't think it will make any difference.

You'll need a good Youtube video to learn how to field strip it and clean it. I use a .22 bore snake but you can decide what you want to use.

You'll have to decide what kind of sights you want. I like the red dot sight.


Without data you're just another person with an opinion. W. E. Deming

2003 Corolla 250,000 miles (RIP)
2004 Corolla 125,000 miles
2004 Rav4 370,000 miles
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Re: AR-style rifle -- suggestions [Re: 92saturnsl2] #5135350
06/15/19 11:03 PM
06/15/19 11:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,020
VW Fanboy Island
maxdustington Offline
maxdustington  Offline

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,020
VW Fanboy Island
I bought a M&P Sport II as my first AR and it's great but if I lived in the US I would have bought a Colt OEM-2 and built it.


03 Jetta AWP/09A 210k kms
Edge 0W40 + Mann 719/30
Re: AR-style rifle -- suggestions [Re: 92saturnsl2] #5135430
06/16/19 04:20 AM
06/16/19 04:20 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 9,119
Waco, TX
Linctex Offline
Linctex  Offline

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 9,119
Waco, TX
It is kind of hard to buy a "bad" AR-15.

Even my cheap $399 "day after thanksgiving" special DPMS Panther is a fun and accurate plinker (with a junky trigger, though)

I don't know your budget..... But I would look for something with a "mid-length" gas system.
I personally don't like the "carbine length" gas system much (the majority of them)

I also think M4 barrel profiles are just plain stupid.


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: AR-style rifle -- suggestions [Re: 92saturnsl2] #5135438
06/16/19 05:38 AM
06/16/19 05:38 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,384
Cajun Country, La.
BlueOvalFitter Offline
BlueOvalFitter  Offline

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,384
Cajun Country, La.


"One Filter, One OCI!"
2007 F150, 4.2 V6
Havoline HM 5W20, MC FL-400S
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Re: AR-style rifle -- suggestions [Re: Leo99] #5135442
06/16/19 05:52 AM
06/16/19 05:52 AM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 128
South Dakota
GeorgeKaplan Offline
GeorgeKaplan  Offline

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 128
South Dakota
Originally Posted by Leo99
Get a rifle that is rated to shoot 5.56. 5.56 is slightly higher compression and the specs for 5.56 and .223 are almost identical. A 5.56 rifle can shoot both 5.56 and .223. I have a S&W Sport and shoot the cheap Russian ammo.

You can also worry about twist rate. I don't think it will make any difference.

You'll need a good Youtube video to learn how to field strip it and clean it. I use a .22 bore snake but you can decide what you want to use.

You'll have to decide what kind of sights you want. I like the red dot sight.


In general, I agree with your post with two nit-picky exceptions. First, I agree, get a rifle chambered in 5.56 vice .223 but your thoughts on the pressures are askew. Second, twist rate is important since correct bullet weight for intended use directly correlates to twist rate and bullet performance; agreeing that the common twist rates of 1:7-1:9 will work for most bullets in most applications...generally.

Re: AR-style rifle -- suggestions [Re: 92saturnsl2] #5135471
06/16/19 07:02 AM
06/16/19 07:02 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,143
Atlanta
DuckRyder Offline
DuckRyder  Offline

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,143
Atlanta
First we should probably clarify:

Do you actually mean “rifle” (IE 20” barrel) or are you looking at carbines (16ish” barrel)

The answer in both cases is Colt, I recognize they are 20-40% above your price point. but Colt and HK are the closest to “mil-spec” you can get without enlisting. The details will be correct.

Have a read through:

https://forum.officer.com/forum/equipment-tactical/firearms/83550-so-you-want-to-buy-an-ar-15-huh

It is somewhat dated (for instance Colt now uses std recover pins) but full of good information.

Last edited by DuckRyder; 06/16/19 07:07 AM.

Robert
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Re: AR-style rifle -- suggestions [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #5135480
06/16/19 07:32 AM
06/16/19 07:32 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,897
PV Az @ 5000'
AZjeff Offline
AZjeff  Offline

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 3,897
PV Az @ 5000'
Originally Posted by BlueOvalFitter


Amazing value right there for $449. Midlength, M2 barrel, Magpul furniture.

I you wanted something different than every other M4 carbine clone this classic rifle would be fun and would shoot great with the iron sights:

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-20-classic-a2-rifle.html

Last edited by AZjeff; 06/16/19 07:42 AM. Reason: add rifle

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Re: AR-style rifle -- suggestions [Re: 92saturnsl2] #5135500
06/16/19 08:00 AM
06/16/19 08:00 AM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 23
IN
MGF1964 Offline
MGF1964  Offline

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 23
IN
The guns you mentioned and the PSA mentioned above are all good-value options.
Only advice I'd add is heed what others have said: Go with a true 5.56 chambering.
Personally, I run a Colt LE 6920 and, to be honest, the extra coin dropped on it has proven worth it to me. It has been a smooth running, nice printing little beastie even on the Lake City bulk 55 and 62-grain offerings.
Enjoy.

Re: AR-style rifle -- suggestions [Re: 92saturnsl2] #5135549
06/16/19 08:49 AM
06/16/19 08:49 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 735
NC USA
Roadkingnc Offline
Roadkingnc  Offline

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 735
NC USA
I have a ruger 556, I can hit clay pigeons at 300 yards with it.

Re: AR-style rifle -- suggestions [Re: GeorgeKaplan] #5135586
06/16/19 09:47 AM
06/16/19 09:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,998
NJ
Leo99 Offline
Leo99  Offline

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,998
NJ
Originally Posted by GeorgeKaplan
Originally Posted by Leo99
Get a rifle that is rated to shoot 5.56. 5.56 is slightly higher compression and the specs for 5.56 and .223 are almost identical. A 5.56 rifle can shoot both 5.56 and .223. I have a S&W Sport and shoot the cheap Russian ammo.

You can also worry about twist rate. I don't think it will make any difference.

You'll need a good Youtube video to learn how to field strip it and clean it. I use a .22 bore snake but you can decide what you want to use.

You'll have to decide what kind of sights you want. I like the red dot sight.


In general, I agree with your post with two nit-picky exceptions. First, I agree, get a rifle chambered in 5.56 vice .223 but your thoughts on the pressures are askew. Second, twist rate is important since correct bullet weight for intended use directly correlates to twist rate and bullet performance; agreeing that the common twist rates of 1:7-1:9 will work for most bullets in most applications...generally.



This is from Cheaper Than Dirt:

.223 vs. 5.56 NATO: Cartridges
The .223 Remington is a sporting cartridge with the same external dimensions as the 5.56x45mm NATO military cartridge. It is loaded with a .224-inch diameter jacketed bullet, with weights ranging from roughly 40 to 90 grains (the 55-grain being the most popular). Pressure is the primary difference separating the .223 Remington and 5.56x45mm.

The .223s are loaded to lower pressures and velocities compared to 5.56mm. Due to its lower pressure, you can safely fire .223 Rem. ammunition in a 5.56mm chambered gun; however, the same cannot be said in reverse.

The 5.56x45mm ammo creates higher pressure. This over-pressure will frequently cause difficult extraction, flowing brass or popped primers. In extreme cases, the over-pressure could damage or destroy the rifle and injure the operator.


Regarding twist rate: thanks for your clarification. I assumed barrels only come in 1.7 - 1.9 and I've read people arguing over which is better within that range.


Without data you're just another person with an opinion. W. E. Deming

2003 Corolla 250,000 miles (RIP)
2004 Corolla 125,000 miles
2004 Rav4 370,000 miles
2015 Camry 70,000 miles
Re: AR-style rifle -- suggestions [Re: Roadkingnc] #5135621
06/16/19 10:38 AM
06/16/19 10:38 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,384
Cajun Country, La.
BlueOvalFitter Offline
BlueOvalFitter  Offline

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,384
Cajun Country, La.
Originally Posted by Roadkingnc
I have a ruger 556, I can hit clay pigeons at 300 yards with it.

I too own a Ruger 556 (8500). It's the only one that I own that I didn't build myself. And, it's a great shooter!
Someone on the interweb is selling Sport II's for $449. That too is a good black evil rifle. grin


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