Called the Dodge dealer about having my wifes 2002 Dodge Grand Caravan in for a transmission fluid change. Two options, pull the pan, change the filter and replace the fluid that was drained. Or, do a flush, no filter, pan not pulled of course. <- Are they crazy? No filter change? Is this normal? I think it sucks! Is it too much to expect to have the pan pulled, filter changed, and transmission flushed also?
My Dodge dealer is crazy! Transmission flush..
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It's pretty easy to disconnect a cooler line and put a funnel in the dipstick hole. Easier than undoing a dozen pan bolts. They paid a lot of money for a flushing machine. That, and the techs probably don't like dropping pans full of ATF. Geez, if you don't want to get dirty, don't work as a mechanic.
Insist on having the pan dropped and filter changed. If they give you grief and other customers are within earshot loudly explain how to do it correctly per the owner's manual.
Insist on having the pan dropped and filter changed. If they give you grief and other customers are within earshot loudly explain how to do it correctly per the owner's manual.
It's pretty much the same thing as manufacturers suggesting to change the oil filter every second oil change. While it may be an accepted practice, why not just change the $5 filter while you are changing the oil?
With regards to the transmission, there is generally not much stuff in the fluid that the filter needs to trap (unless something is broken). On my vehicles that I've done transmission fluid changes, I've always dropped the pan and changed the filter. Thay way, you can see for yourself if there is anything going on in there that you should be aware of.
Was there much difference in price? I believe it may actually be more expensive to do the flush, because they are using much more fluid than with the pan drop.
With regards to the transmission, there is generally not much stuff in the fluid that the filter needs to trap (unless something is broken). On my vehicles that I've done transmission fluid changes, I've always dropped the pan and changed the filter. Thay way, you can see for yourself if there is anything going on in there that you should be aware of.
Was there much difference in price? I believe it may actually be more expensive to do the flush, because they are using much more fluid than with the pan drop.
They wanted $119 for the flush and $99 for just dropping the pan and changing the filter and a few quarts.
I'll be insisting on a filter change with the flush. Its only the right thing to do in my book.
I'll be insisting on a filter change with the flush. Its only the right thing to do in my book.
Is the van still under warranty? Are you permitted to get the maintenance performed elsewhere (I don't think you are obligated to get the work done at the dealer)? If so, it may be an idea to check with some reputable shops around you to see how much they would charge to drop the pan and replace the filter and fluid.
You may have to check this out to be sure (in your owners manual), but I believe that your van will take ATF +4 fluid. Make sure that whoever does the work uses the correct fluid, or choosing to change/not change the filter will be the least of your worries!
You may have to check this out to be sure (in your owners manual), but I believe that your van will take ATF +4 fluid. Make sure that whoever does the work uses the correct fluid, or choosing to change/not change the filter will be the least of your worries!
iirc, a flush and a standard chage are mutually exclusive; ie, you can't do a COMPLETE fluid change when you drop the pan (the torque converter retains some fluid.)
If you want all the fluid changed, get the flush.
If you want the filter changed/cleaned, dropping the pan is the only way to do it. And if you drop the pan, you won't change all the fluid. Unless you then button it up, and do a separate flush.
In which case they would (rightfully) charge you for both.
If you want all the fluid changed, get the flush.
If you want the filter changed/cleaned, dropping the pan is the only way to do it. And if you drop the pan, you won't change all the fluid. Unless you then button it up, and do a separate flush.
In which case they would (rightfully) charge you for both.
This is what I would do:
Buy a manual, if you dont already know how to do trans fluid/filter changes.
Do the pan drop and filter change at home, refill with atf+4, drive up to dealer.
Get the flush.
Just saved yourself some $$ and you know "for sure" the filter got changed!
Good Luck
Buy a manual, if you dont already know how to do trans fluid/filter changes.
Do the pan drop and filter change at home, refill with atf+4, drive up to dealer.
Get the flush.
Just saved yourself some $$ and you know "for sure" the filter got changed!
Good Luck
Just had the dealer do the "drop pan, adjust bands, replace filter, replace pan gasket [with neoprene piece]" on the 727-based 46RE in my 2001 DODGE Ram (V8-318, 3.55's, 2WD; 5,080#) at 92k.
Added the requisite ATF+4 [4-quarts], and I added the correct amount of ARX for a 2000-mile cleanout. At the end of the period I will replace the current fluid with SCHAEFFERS 204-Supreme, a MAGNEFINE magnetic auxiliary filter, and look into the labor cost of a few mods already well-researched.
Bought a few months back, I've put about 8k on the truck. The fluid didn't look or smell too bad (can't tell as easily as years ago, but a calibrated nose is helpful). This trans is strained with a small-block, 0.69 ratio OD, emissions-calibration shifting and a few problems not well-sorted by factory. I've a ways to go in achieving complete prophylactic maintenance & upgrades, but starting with the dealer was easy. (What hurt was the having the fuel pump/filter/regulator replaced for $800; but, then, the use of FUEL POWER -- I am a little more than half-convinced -- allowed me to choose the time when to do it as that booger whined for the whole 8k I've had it).
Cost for trans service? About $100 plus a few bucks. Glad to have the bands adjusted according to spec, the dealer to look it over (I've a good relationship with an outstanding service writer), and I've some piece of mind.
I'll do the rest, and from here on will do annual pan drop/adjustment at dealer or an independent, and will change fluid myself after annual/25k ARX clean-up. (It also duplicates the set-up on our 2001 JEEP Cherokee [L6-242, AW-4] and makes for ease of service on both).
A few bucks out of my pocket doesn't hurt so much with trusted techs/service department . . especially as I learned many years ago how to do all of this myself, but failing health prevents me from "doing it all".
Just find a good shop, buy/study the factory service manual, and use the Internet wisely to spend appropiate to your long-term cost of ownership. Sorta hard to do too much.
[ March 11, 2005, 11:45 PM: Message edited by: TheTanSedan ]
Added the requisite ATF+4 [4-quarts], and I added the correct amount of ARX for a 2000-mile cleanout. At the end of the period I will replace the current fluid with SCHAEFFERS 204-Supreme, a MAGNEFINE magnetic auxiliary filter, and look into the labor cost of a few mods already well-researched.
Bought a few months back, I've put about 8k on the truck. The fluid didn't look or smell too bad (can't tell as easily as years ago, but a calibrated nose is helpful). This trans is strained with a small-block, 0.69 ratio OD, emissions-calibration shifting and a few problems not well-sorted by factory. I've a ways to go in achieving complete prophylactic maintenance & upgrades, but starting with the dealer was easy. (What hurt was the having the fuel pump/filter/regulator replaced for $800; but, then, the use of FUEL POWER -- I am a little more than half-convinced -- allowed me to choose the time when to do it as that booger whined for the whole 8k I've had it).
Cost for trans service? About $100 plus a few bucks. Glad to have the bands adjusted according to spec, the dealer to look it over (I've a good relationship with an outstanding service writer), and I've some piece of mind.
I'll do the rest, and from here on will do annual pan drop/adjustment at dealer or an independent, and will change fluid myself after annual/25k ARX clean-up. (It also duplicates the set-up on our 2001 JEEP Cherokee [L6-242, AW-4] and makes for ease of service on both).
A few bucks out of my pocket doesn't hurt so much with trusted techs/service department . . especially as I learned many years ago how to do all of this myself, but failing health prevents me from "doing it all".
Just find a good shop, buy/study the factory service manual
[ March 11, 2005, 11:45 PM: Message edited by: TheTanSedan ]
When the Volvo dealer did my 97 960 last month they dropped the pan, replaced the filter. Then bolted back up the clean pan and ran the flush. If you saw the bottom of your pan you would want a flush of the system.
They did it right. Unfortunately, not many shops do! Last week I helped a friend go through this process on his '96 Explorer. Boy was there ever a lot of black residue inside the pan for us to clean out. The problem with a flush only is that such residue does not get cleaned out. We did the poor-boy version of a flush by removing a tranny fluid line at the radiator, running hoses into a large bucket, then filling new fluid at about the rate the old was pumped out with the vehicle idling. You can not get new fluid to pour in as fast as it pumps out, so occassional shut downs are needed. It is also good to run the tranny through the various gear selection modes every few minutes while doing this.
We also added a drain plug to his transmission pan so that in the future the pan can be drained before removal, which makes the job so much less messy. It ****** me off that most vehicles do not have transmission or differential drain plugs anymore.
The one thing many shops are doing which really scares me is putting a solvent through the transmission with the flushing machine. This seems like a really BAD idea to me, and probably is why you hear reports of high mileage transmissions suddenly failing shortly after a power flush.
John
EVERY place I called a couple of years ago about a flush AND a filter change would charge either both fees or the flush fee and about 1/2 of the pan drop fee. This included dealers (Chevy, Ford, Dodge, Toyota) and independent shops. Again, I emphasize EVERY place I called.
If you think about it they have a set fee for the flush. This fee doesn't include the labor time for dropping the pan and the filter cost. It wouldn't be fair to try to get both for one fee.
Like said before...do the dropping of the pan yourself.
If you think about it they have a set fee for the flush. This fee doesn't include the labor time for dropping the pan and the filter cost. It wouldn't be fair to try to get both for one fee.
Like said before...do the dropping of the pan yourself.
The best is find a good tranny shop and take it to them. I find it to be cheaper and better, a tranny shop works on only trannys.
Second, having trannys flushed can cause alot of after trouble. A friend of mine took his Mom's Lincoln Navigator in to the dealer to service the tranny and he told them to not flush, drain. and after he got it back and drove home 65 miles the tranny was slipping, after inspection he saw that the pan had never been removed. BOTTOM LINE flushing can blow seals and many other things if the mechanic
isn't watching what he is doing.
Second, having trannys flushed can cause alot of after trouble. A friend of mine took his Mom's Lincoln Navigator in to the dealer to service the tranny and he told them to not flush, drain. and after he got it back and drove home 65 miles the tranny was slipping, after inspection he saw that the pan had never been removed. BOTTOM LINE flushing can blow seals and many other things if the mechanic
isn't watching what he is doing.
Isnt that somewhat dependent on what machine is used? I thought there were two types of machines, the one that allows the transmission to push out the old fluid, pull in the new via the cooler lines. I fail to see how that could damage seals. The other machine i heard of was one that "pushed" the fluid thru under pressure the machine generated, i can, in that instance, see how the transmission could be damaged.
I think alot of that "we serviced the transmission, then if failed" comes from people who didnt take the transmission into be serviced until it started acting up. The fluid is changed and then, the transmission fails. In their mind, the fluid change caused the failure, when in actuality, it was on it last legs to begin with..
Just IMHO
darrell
sin city
Darrell is absolutely correct on both statements.
Those prices are astronomical. Buy the parts and fluid and do it yourself and save a ton of money. Changing the trans fluid and filter is as easy as changing the engine oil and filter. Just a little messier.
Went to my Dodge dealer yesterday to get all of the drivetrain fluids changed. I have an 04 Ram 1500 QC 4X4 with about 35,000 Kms on it. I brought my own fluids (Amsoil and yes truck is still under warranty). I had the dealer pull the pan to change both filters in this particular tranny and refill with ATF+4, then once that was done they went ahead and did the flush with the Amsoil ATF. About $90 CDN for the tranny service plus all parts.
What you can/will and can't/won't get done at a dealer is all dealer dependant. Some are great and will work with their customers and others as we all know are P***KS.
Good Luck.
What you can/will and can't/won't get done at a dealer is all dealer dependant. Some are great and will work with their customers and others as we all know are P***KS.
Good Luck.
Call a trany shop! Most of them are cheaper and always drop the pan and change the filter. If you need a Dodge specific fluid tell them you will bring it yourself and they will normaly kick $15 dollars or so off the price! Never do a flush and not drop the pan and change the filter! The dealership should be turned into DC as that has to be against OEM policy!!
either lubes'n greases or machinery lubrication magazine had a good article not too long ago about the pros and cons of transmission fluid changes- traditional pan drops vs the new backflushing machines and not removing the filter or dropping the pan. If I can dig up the article, I will try and post it. To sum up, machine flusing a tranny was a bad idea because pushing fluid through it under pressure could damage things; and backflushing with the machine under pressure- to clean the filter so it wouldn't have to be changed- is also a bad idea (obviously) because it doesn't guarantee that crud is removed entirely from the system nor does it take into account the actual condition of the filter. If it's a paper element type filter, they need to be replaced; if it's old and you power flush it how do you know you're not blowing it apart, and now you have no filter? What I think was happening is that type of procedure was ok (key word = ok, not good) for tranny's with certain kinds of filter screens that didn't get replaced, but they market it such that it's good to use on any transmission so they get the business and your money- and not responsible if anything breaks afterwards. And one of the biggest cons to machine flushing was if they used a solvent during the flush, then there is no guarantee it's completely removed when the new fluid is in so it shortens the life of the new fluid, and the solvent can also damage seals.
If I were you I would rotate between Flushes and Filter changes every 30k miles. It is not necessary to change the filter every time. It is also not necessary to completely change out the fluid each time. Keep an eye on the color of the fluid. Put a drop on a clean white paper towel. If it is not bright red you it needs to be flushed/partially replaced.
All transmissions are different. The tranny on a 960 has a drain plug, but you only get about 1.5 quarts out. On my cars tranny 95 Montero I get about 4qts out of the drain plug.
There is a real risk of damage to your transmission if you have not changed the fluid in say 70k and up miles. The fluid that comes out will have no additives left so there will be sludge in the tranny. The 100% new fluid will be chock full of powerfull detergents. It will break stuff loose an plug up some of those small passages in the tranny. If you havent changed the fluid in a long time do a partial fluid change only.
The other issues is that some transmissions are harder on the fluid than others. The Volvo 960 originally said that the fluid never needs to be changed. Current BMW's say that the factory fill is permanent.
All transmissions are different. The tranny on a 960 has a drain plug, but you only get about 1.5 quarts out. On my cars tranny 95 Montero I get about 4qts out of the drain plug.
There is a real risk of damage to your transmission if you have not changed the fluid in say 70k and up miles. The fluid that comes out will have no additives left so there will be sludge in the tranny. The 100% new fluid will be chock full of powerfull detergents. It will break stuff loose an plug up some of those small passages in the tranny. If you havent changed the fluid in a long time do a partial fluid change only.
The other issues is that some transmissions are harder on the fluid than others. The Volvo 960 originally said that the fluid never needs to be changed. Current BMW's say that the factory fill is permanent.
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