How angry pilots got the Navy to stop dismissing UFO sightings
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Originally Posted by Shannow
They'll be using telepathy, long having since abandoned radio signals that only travel at the speed of light.
the record will make as much sense to them as a pianola reel handed to a teenager.
They would probably melt it down for the gold ... lol.
They'll be using telepathy, long having since abandoned radio signals that only travel at the speed of light.
the record will make as much sense to them as a pianola reel handed to a teenager.
They would probably melt it down for the gold ... lol.
Originally Posted by Shannow
They stopped the SR-71 because they didn't need it anymore ?
Yeah right...they didn't need it anymore because there's something better
Satellites with super resolution and other capabilities.
They stopped the SR-71 because they didn't need it anymore ?
Yeah right...they didn't need it anymore because there's something better
Satellites with super resolution and other capabilities.
Over 80 different UFOs Unidentified Flying Object have been sighted...
not one is an IFO Identified Flying Object... we don't know for sure
what they are or if the origins are extra terrestrial however SETI is
listening for ET's first radio transmissions which will pre-empt
the arrival of their physical craft...
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2019/06/full-45634-33190-ufotimeline1.jpg "[Linked Image]")
not one is an IFO Identified Flying Object... we don't know for sure
what they are or if the origins are extra terrestrial however SETI is
listening for ET's first radio transmissions which will pre-empt
the arrival of their physical craft...
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Originally Posted by UncleDave
Who do you trust?
Mercy Dave you don't have trust anyone... you can answer your own
questions by employing the scientific method... take the advice of a
obscured 1909 patent examiner named Albert...
Quote Albert Einstein
"In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the
humble reasoning of a single individual." "Everything must be taken
into account. If the fact will not fit the theory---let the theory go."
The scientific method is a process that anyone can use to better
understand the world around them. It includes making observations and
asking a question, forming a hypothesis, designing an experiment,
collecting and analyzing data, and drawing a conclusion.
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2019/06/full-45634-33191-scientificmethod1.jpg "[Linked Image]")
Who do you trust?
Mercy Dave you don't have trust anyone... you can answer your own
questions by employing the scientific method... take the advice of a
obscured 1909 patent examiner named Albert...
Quote Albert Einstein
"In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the
humble reasoning of a single individual." "Everything must be taken
into account. If the fact will not fit the theory---let the theory go."
The scientific method is a process that anyone can use to better
understand the world around them. It includes making observations and
asking a question, forming a hypothesis, designing an experiment,
collecting and analyzing data, and drawing a conclusion.
Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted by UncleDave
Who do you trust?
Mercy Dave you don't have trust anyone... you can answer your own
questions by employing the scientific method... take the advice of a
obscured 1909 patent examiner named Albert...
Quote Albert Einstein
"In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the
humble reasoning of a single individual." "Everything must be taken
into account. If the fact will not fit the theory---let the theory go."
The scientific method is a process that anyone can use to better
understand the world around them. It includes making observations and
asking a question, forming a hypothesis, designing an experiment,
collecting and analyzing data, and drawing a conclusion.
Einstein was a pure theorist, as your quote illustrates.
The only theory that I can postulate involves intelligent life out there in our own galaxy.
Surely we and our planet cannot be unique?
Whether we been visited or not is another question entirely.
Originally Posted by UncleDave
Who do you trust?
Mercy Dave you don't have trust anyone... you can answer your own
questions by employing the scientific method... take the advice of a
obscured 1909 patent examiner named Albert...
Quote Albert Einstein
"In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the
humble reasoning of a single individual." "Everything must be taken
into account. If the fact will not fit the theory---let the theory go."
The scientific method is a process that anyone can use to better
understand the world around them. It includes making observations and
asking a question, forming a hypothesis, designing an experiment,
collecting and analyzing data, and drawing a conclusion.
Einstein was a pure theorist, as your quote illustrates.
The only theory that I can postulate involves intelligent life out there in our own galaxy.
Surely we and our planet cannot be unique?
Whether we been visited or not is another question entirely.
Originally Posted by fdcg27
Surely we and our planet cannot be unique?
Whether we been visited or not is another question entirely.
This is my feeling on it.
If you look at the numbers, there's no way there aren't other Earths and other intelligent life. The galaxy, let alone the whole universe, is simply too large for other habitable planets not to have formed, and for there not to be other civilizations. I don't see how any thoughtful and reasonable person can not see it this way.
As far as whether we've been visited by extraterrestrial life from some of these other civilizations, I believe that we have. Again...just due to the numbers - in this case, the vastness of time. The galaxy is old. There are stars that are much older than the Sun, which have planets that are far older than Earth, and some of these planets are, no doubt, host to civilizations that have had the chance to surpass humankind's level of technological advancement beyond our wildest dreams... Most likely to the point of "cheating" the physical laws we're all slaves to...including the speed of light, and maybe even what we call time. I mean, just look at how far we've come in the last 100 years. We went from the Wright flyer in 1903, to men standing on the Moon, less than 66 years later! Now imagine a civilization that has a head-start on us of only a few thousand years. Think about where humanity was, say, 3000 years ago. We'd barely transitioned from the stone age into the iron age! Now think about someone from that era seeing a Boeing 747 fly over. Yeah. You start to get the idea of how relative progress between civilizations would look.
Now imagine a civilization that is hundreds of thousands of years, or even millions of years ahead of us. What they'd have...what they'd be capable of... It's enough to blow my mind.
To a civilization that advanced, it would be child's play to prevent us from knowing they were around. As far as the phenomena that have been observed, well, I don't know the answer to that.
Take a look at the Kardashev scale. Some of you are, no doubt, already familiar with it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale
Surely we and our planet cannot be unique?
Whether we been visited or not is another question entirely.
This is my feeling on it.
If you look at the numbers, there's no way there aren't other Earths and other intelligent life. The galaxy, let alone the whole universe, is simply too large for other habitable planets not to have formed, and for there not to be other civilizations. I don't see how any thoughtful and reasonable person can not see it this way.
As far as whether we've been visited by extraterrestrial life from some of these other civilizations, I believe that we have. Again...just due to the numbers - in this case, the vastness of time. The galaxy is old. There are stars that are much older than the Sun, which have planets that are far older than Earth, and some of these planets are, no doubt, host to civilizations that have had the chance to surpass humankind's level of technological advancement beyond our wildest dreams... Most likely to the point of "cheating" the physical laws we're all slaves to...including the speed of light, and maybe even what we call time. I mean, just look at how far we've come in the last 100 years. We went from the Wright flyer in 1903, to men standing on the Moon, less than 66 years later! Now imagine a civilization that has a head-start on us of only a few thousand years. Think about where humanity was, say, 3000 years ago. We'd barely transitioned from the stone age into the iron age! Now think about someone from that era seeing a Boeing 747 fly over. Yeah. You start to get the idea of how relative progress between civilizations would look.
Now imagine a civilization that is hundreds of thousands of years, or even millions of years ahead of us. What they'd have...what they'd be capable of... It's enough to blow my mind.
To a civilization that advanced, it would be child's play to prevent us from knowing they were around. As far as the phenomena that have been observed, well, I don't know the answer to that.
Take a look at the Kardashev scale. Some of you are, no doubt, already familiar with it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale
If you want to talk numbers, then any thoughtful and reasonable person would also see that while the sheer size and the number of galaxies in the universe make a big probability of existence of life and even intelligent life, that same vastness and sheer numbers make it almost impossible for those civilizations to find each other, never mind visiting them.
Then we have simple life happening. Just how many civilizations we had come and go here on Earth? For those that we know about (and very little at that) each time one fell, a huge knowledge base simply vanished.
What are the chances that on some other planet a one civilization would survive continuously for millions of years required to accumulate technological knowledge, surviving natural disasters, internal power struggles, lack of resources?
It's easy to dream up nonsense, like kardashevs scale, Dyson spheres etc. or make scifi movies, which I think is the main influence in people imagination about these things.
Then we have simple life happening. Just how many civilizations we had come and go here on Earth? For those that we know about (and very little at that) each time one fell, a huge knowledge base simply vanished.
What are the chances that on some other planet a one civilization would survive continuously for millions of years required to accumulate technological knowledge, surviving natural disasters, internal power struggles, lack of resources?
It's easy to dream up nonsense, like kardashevs scale, Dyson spheres etc. or make scifi movies, which I think is the main influence in people imagination about these things.
Originally Posted by KrisZ
What are the chances that on some other planet a one civilization would survive continuously for millions of years required to accumulate technological knowledge ...
If a civilization had millions of years of technological knowlege, they would know way more about the Universe and how to travel through it than us monkeys do today, who didn't even know how to fly through our own atmosphere 125 years ago.
What are the chances that on some other planet a one civilization would survive continuously for millions of years required to accumulate technological knowledge ...
If a civilization had millions of years of technological knowlege, they would know way more about the Universe and how to travel through it than us monkeys do today, who didn't even know how to fly through our own atmosphere 125 years ago.
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by KrisZ
What are the chances that on some other planet a one civilization would survive continuously for millions of years required to accumulate technological knowledge ...
If a civilization had millions of years of technological knowlege, they would know way more about the Universe and how to travel through it than us monkeys do today, who didn't even know how to fly through our own atmosphere 125 years ago.
Exactly.
The skeptics' problem is that they're thinking about the technological barriers to interstellar travel that WE face. We're technological babies. Look at what we've accomplished in just over 100 years. Heck, just look at what's been done just since WWII!
Now imagine what we'll have in 100 more years. 1000. 10,000.
Originally Posted by KrisZ
What are the chances that on some other planet a one civilization would survive continuously for millions of years required to accumulate technological knowledge ...
If a civilization had millions of years of technological knowlege, they would know way more about the Universe and how to travel through it than us monkeys do today, who didn't even know how to fly through our own atmosphere 125 years ago.
Exactly.
The skeptics' problem is that they're thinking about the technological barriers to interstellar travel that WE face. We're technological babies. Look at what we've accomplished in just over 100 years. Heck, just look at what's been done just since WWII!
Now imagine what we'll have in 100 more years. 1000. 10,000.
Originally Posted by john_pifer
Now imagine what we'll have in 100 more years. 1000. 10,000.
Imagining is exactly what most of you are doing. How can logic and reason stand against one's imagination?
May as well argue that dilithium crystals really exist, or that perhaps another civilization found all infinity stones and that's why they're here. Heck, maybe there is even a planet out there that is all desert and has huge warms roaming it and producing spice.
Now imagine what we'll have in 100 more years. 1000. 10,000.
Imagining is exactly what most of you are doing. How can logic and reason stand against one's imagination?
May as well argue that dilithium crystals really exist, or that perhaps another civilization found all infinity stones and that's why they're here. Heck, maybe there is even a planet out there that is all desert and has huge warms roaming it and producing spice.
Maybe there are, maybe there aren't. Good case can be made for both. You have the observable universe at about 93 billion light years in diameter, due to dark energy expansion even though the universe is only 13.8 billion years old. So about 2 trillion galaxies in there with about 100-400 billion stars each. Relativity came up in the 1900's and the speed of light has been the limit ever since aside from quantum entanglement, but that doesn't seem to violate relativity. But there's some limiting factors, red dwarfs are the most common stars and one problem with them is that they tend to flare and quite often so that the flares of radiation would pretty much kill any life forms. Then the heavy metals like plutonium come from neutron star collisions and those took a while to happen and then suns to form afterwards. Still that probably leaves you with potential life forms in the last couple billion years. It may just be that the speed of light really is the limiting factor, don't really see any viable theories that really take you faster than light.
Basically with all that said, it does look like we won the cosmic lottery. But with lotteries, there's long odds of winning and it may seem like a miracle if you win. But if every combination was sold, there's guaranteed to be a winner even if the odds of winning may be in the millions.
Basically with all that said, it does look like we won the cosmic lottery. But with lotteries, there's long odds of winning and it may seem like a miracle if you win. But if every combination was sold, there's guaranteed to be a winner even if the odds of winning may be in the millions.
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Basically with all that said, it does look like we won the cosmic lottery. But with lotteries, there's long odds of winning and it may seem like a miracle if you win. But if every combination was sold, there's guaranteed to be a winner even if the odds of winning may be in the millions.
Extending the analogy...no matter how many times that you don't win, there's generally someone, someone that you don't know and will never even fathom how to be able to connect to...that did win most days of most weeks of most years...and the number of lotteries around the worls are fairly small and finite in comparison to the randomness being looked at.
As to dark matter/energy...I consider any theory that requires multiple times the observable mass in a form that is absolutely unobservable by any measuring technique...to explain measurable and observable phenomenon to be as suspect as saying that the flying spaghetti monster made it all so.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
therefore any sufficiently advanced being is indistinguishable from a spiritual entity
QED
Any spiritual entity is indistinguishable from an alien, that is able to display technology beyond our physics.
See how circular logic works ?
Basically with all that said, it does look like we won the cosmic lottery. But with lotteries, there's long odds of winning and it may seem like a miracle if you win. But if every combination was sold, there's guaranteed to be a winner even if the odds of winning may be in the millions.
Extending the analogy...no matter how many times that you don't win, there's generally someone, someone that you don't know and will never even fathom how to be able to connect to...that did win most days of most weeks of most years...and the number of lotteries around the worls are fairly small and finite in comparison to the randomness being looked at.
As to dark matter/energy...I consider any theory that requires multiple times the observable mass in a form that is absolutely unobservable by any measuring technique...to explain measurable and observable phenomenon to be as suspect as saying that the flying spaghetti monster made it all so.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
therefore any sufficiently advanced being is indistinguishable from a spiritual entity
QED
Any spiritual entity is indistinguishable from an alien, that is able to display technology beyond our physics.
See how circular logic works ?
Originally Posted by Shannow
As to dark matter/energy...I consider any theory that requires multiple times the observable mass in a form that is absolutely unobservable by any measuring technique...to explain measurable and observable phenomenon to be as suspect as saying that the flying spaghetti monster made it all so.
Dark matter and dark energy are two different things that just have dark in common. It took a while for the Higgs boson to be found. Your basic complaint is about dark matter. There's other theories that get rid of dark matter but they don't hold up when applying it to other things. Relativity is still the best theory so we end up with dark matter to explain why it doesn't add up. It's just a place holder.
Dark energy is just the acceleration of the universe, it just refers to unknown energy that's causing the universe to expand at an accelerating rate.
Just look at LIGO, it failed for decades before it finally became sensitive enough to detect gravitational waves, although I think we're still pretty far off from being able to figure out dark matter.
As to dark matter/energy...I consider any theory that requires multiple times the observable mass in a form that is absolutely unobservable by any measuring technique...to explain measurable and observable phenomenon to be as suspect as saying that the flying spaghetti monster made it all so.
Dark matter and dark energy are two different things that just have dark in common. It took a while for the Higgs boson to be found. Your basic complaint is about dark matter. There's other theories that get rid of dark matter but they don't hold up when applying it to other things. Relativity is still the best theory so we end up with dark matter to explain why it doesn't add up. It's just a place holder.
Dark energy is just the acceleration of the universe, it just refers to unknown energy that's causing the universe to expand at an accelerating rate.
Just look at LIGO, it failed for decades before it finally became sensitive enough to detect gravitational waves, although I think we're still pretty far off from being able to figure out dark matter.
The existence of intelligent extraterrestrials is a near certainty. There will likely be multiple extraterrestrial civilizations and societies. Our technology to early man would be indistinguishable from magic. We are at a very early stage in space exploration. Any alien civilization with say a thousand year experience in space would likely be to us as the Spanish were to the Aztecs. Say they are here and flying in our skies... They must like us, because we're still here.
Originally Posted by Jetsfan421
The existence of intelligent extraterrestrials is a near certainty. There will likely be multiple extraterrestrial civilizations and societies. Our technology to early man would be indistinguishable from magic. We are at a very early stage in space exploration. Any alien civilization with say a thousand year experience in space would likely be to us as the Spanish were to the Aztecs. Say they are here and flying in our skies... They must like us, because we're still here.
This ^
The existence of intelligent extraterrestrials is a near certainty. There will likely be multiple extraterrestrial civilizations and societies. Our technology to early man would be indistinguishable from magic. We are at a very early stage in space exploration. Any alien civilization with say a thousand year experience in space would likely be to us as the Spanish were to the Aztecs. Say they are here and flying in our skies... They must like us, because we're still here.
This ^
Love the various "examples".
"The universe is so vast, there must be other intelligent life" - sure how would they find us in this vastness?
Oh, the technology that would be like "magic" to us, just like the Spanish. But Spanish manifested themselves right away to the original inhabitants and their technology, although seemed magical, was in full display. A superior civilization, with superior technology has no reason hide itself and its technology.
So where are the examples of this alien technology you guys keep mentioning? I'm sure the answer would be that it's probably part of that magical technology, so we can't even perceive them lol.
Again, how can logic and reason stand against wild imagination?
"The universe is so vast, there must be other intelligent life" - sure how would they find us in this vastness?
Oh, the technology that would be like "magic" to us, just like the Spanish. But Spanish manifested themselves right away to the original inhabitants and their technology, although seemed magical, was in full display. A superior civilization, with superior technology has no reason hide itself and its technology.
So where are the examples of this alien technology you guys keep mentioning? I'm sure the answer would be that it's probably part of that magical technology, so we can't even perceive them lol.
Again, how can logic and reason stand against wild imagination?
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Originally Posted by KrisZ
Again, how can logic and reason stand against wild imagination?
If you want wild imagination, how about the Everett interpretation which says that every quantum reality is realized. So with Schrodinger cat, in one realty the cat is alive and in some other world the cat is dead. So if you apply that to the entire universe, it's a lot of other universes out there. And you go from the start of cosmic inflation to the heat death of the universe in about 10 to the 1000 years. Of course it's just a theory and hard to prove.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation
There are probably other civilizations out there, but with light as the limiting factor, they're probably beyond reach. If we can somehow do 10-20% light speed, Andromeda at 2.5 million light years away would take 12.5-25 million light years to reach. Our species hasn't even been around that long.
Again, how can logic and reason stand against wild imagination?
If you want wild imagination, how about the Everett interpretation which says that every quantum reality is realized. So with Schrodinger cat, in one realty the cat is alive and in some other world the cat is dead. So if you apply that to the entire universe, it's a lot of other universes out there. And you go from the start of cosmic inflation to the heat death of the universe in about 10 to the 1000 years. Of course it's just a theory and hard to prove.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation
There are probably other civilizations out there, but with light as the limiting factor, they're probably beyond reach. If we can somehow do 10-20% light speed, Andromeda at 2.5 million light years away would take 12.5-25 million light years to reach. Our species hasn't even been around that long.
There are several videos on YouTube featuring fine service men in the Navy talking about the Flying Tic Tac. These incidents were so severe that plain-clothes people from an unknown agency then confiscated every data recorder on the ship. The Navy people were of course very highly trained and elite. The truth is out there.
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