F35....just abandon the program already

[JLTD]

Came across this article on the F35 program. Some of the information (just revealed, apparently) is from 2011.

This seems to have become the most expensive mistake ever made in aviation.


https://www.thedailybeast.com/ameri...PZt4-8aYLQg3VQ-nH91MP5rPQ6DTRyJD2jwjIX_8

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

That and the Osprey. In any case I recommend that people read the actual article cited by the link as it provides perspective and context.

 

[LoneRanger]

Too many chefs in the kitchen during development of that jet.

 

[Bottom_Feeder]

I'm sure you've heard the term 'too big to fail'.

There is no way the F-35 is not going to be put into service. It could cost us 10 times the original estimate (it might!) and it will still happen.They can't turn back. They can't make more F-22's either. They are committed to the F-35 program as much of a mess as it is.

The real problem is that no lessons will be learned from it. They know what the problems were/are but the F-35 program is now the new normal, the low bar to hit. Everyone is complaining but it will happen again.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Bring back the Tomcat....

 

[Fawteen]

When you're pushing the absolute limits of what our current technology can do (and inventing completely new technologies while you're at it) there are bound to be issues to overcome. For example, the F-117 was extremely unstable and the first two prototypes crashed.

Anytime there's a brand new weapons system there are issues to be worked through.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

The F-4 Phantom had many such teething troubles...it ended up being a very serviceable aircraft, but probably not the wonder weapon that was expected.
I hope the F-35 ends up being at least that successful...the F-104 might be an example of the downside of making one aircraft do too much (a very good interceptor ended up being marketed as an all weather fighter, ground attack plane, etc).

 

[Quattro Pete]

Looks like Poland may be buying some soon. Not that they have any viable alternatives...

 

[Cujet]

I read the article. It's chock-a-block full of inaccuracy.

For example, they claim that Quote: "If during a steep climb the fighters exceed a 20-degree "angle of attack"—the angle created by the wing and the oncoming air—they could become unstable and potentially uncontrollable"

For those who don't know, all airfoils stall at a some specific angle of attack. Some as low as 14 degrees AOA. Very few wings can achieve more than a 20 deg AOA without the aerodynamic tricks of movable leading edge devices and/or specialized flaps. And of course, wing twist.

Total baloney.

 

[JustN89]

Here is a video discussing a lot of the problems, the intended fixes, and if they will be fixed prior to full rate production.

 

[redbone3]

Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Looks like Poland may be buying some soon. Not that they have any viable alternatives...


They could buy the latest F-15 or F-16.

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

To many Lawyers involved and then after its built and the flyoff is completed as always they set a whole bunch of new specs.

 

[Hakkinen]

Every pilot that works with it has nothing but praise. There are flight demos out there, very impressive. Clearly discredits the 20 degree AOA claim.

Yeah, the program is out of hand. It does bring a lot to the table however.

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

Originally Posted by Hakkinen
Every pilot that works with it has nothing but praise. There are flight demos out there, very impressive. Clearly discredits the 20 degree AOA claim.

Yeah, the program is out of hand. It does bring a lot to the table however.



Well put it in a dog fight with an F22 or a Sukhoi Su-57 and see how impressive it isn't.

 

[Cadenza]

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/28488/f-35-hit-with-cluster-bomb-of-[censored]-reports-as-dod-eyes-full-rate-production
Read the entire article and a few of the comments from pilots and maintainers if you want a real perspective not written by political operatives.

 

[d00df00d]

This article is about flaws that hadn't been reported previously. Most of them either no longer exist or aren't critical.

The F-35 program deserves a great deal of criticism and scorn for its insane costs, delays, and mismanagement. But if you think the plane isn't necessary, or that it doesn't add value over older hardware, or that it's impotent because it can't absolutely crush any other plane in a dogfight... I think it's safe to say you don't understand modern and projected future air combat and threat scenarios. I'm not gonna pretend I'm an expert in that area, but AFAICT almost everyone with that expertise and knowledge of the plane's actual capabilities feels the F-35 is extremely capable and basically necessary.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
Well put it in a dog fight with an F22 or a Sukhoi Su-57 and see how impressive it isn't.

Tried that yourself, have you?

And who says impressiveness comes from dogfighting?

 

[Astro14]

8 year old news, synthesized by a reporter that doesn't understand flying...

Garbage article.

This quote, " If during a steep climb the fighters exceed a 20-degree "angle of attack"—the angle created by the wing and the oncoming air—they could become unstable and potentially uncontrollable. To prevent a possible crash, pilots must avoid steeply climbing and other hard maneuvers." shows that the author doesn't actually understand flying, or AOA. AOA isn't a function of climb angle. I can climb straight up (and used to) at very low AOA.

Or this gem; "Fleet pilots agreed it is very difficult to max perform the aircraft" in those circumstances, Defense News quoted the documents as saying." - except that everything I've heard is the opposite. Fleet pilots love the airplane. It's easy to fly.

Look, I've been very open in my criticism of the program for its too-big-to-fail nature and its one-size-fits-all airplane, but this article is pure sensationalism based on outdated information and poor understanding of airplanes.

The airplane is here, it's already in the fleet, and the fixes for these problems have already been implemented.

Why should I care what this clown says?

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
Well put it in a dog fight with an F22 or a Sukhoi Su-57 and see how impressive it isn't.

The fact that it shares the air with the F22 only makes the F35 even more impressive. The two planes have different roles.

Is the Su-57 anything but dead in the water? How many does Russia have?

 

[JustN89]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
Well put it in a dog fight with an F22 or a Sukhoi Su-57 and see how impressive it isn't.

The fact that it shares the air with the F22 only makes the F35 even more impressive. The two planes have different roles.

Is the Su-57 anything but dead in the water? How many does Russia have?

Apparently only 10 flyable prototypes and 2 on order, according to the almighty Wikipedia.