98 Expedition - Pull Head or Not?

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Originally Posted by Fitz98
I feel like once I have this behind me, I will have a good running, relatively dependable vehicle back in service.
This is the "black hole" of owning an old vehicle on it's last legs that many of us have experienced. One keeps throwing more and more money and time at it with the thinking that "once I have fixed this problem, since I have already fixed almost everything else that can go wrong, it will be good for awhile". This is almost never the case with an old worn-out vehicle. Vehicles are far more complicated than many people think and something else will ALWAYS go wrong. There is a point in every vehicle's life where it is time to stop pouring good money into it and put your hard-earned money into a newer vehicle instead. I have been following your saga with this rusty old Expedition for awhile now and IMO this truck has reached the point of "time to replace". I know what you are thinking, "I have already spent so much time and money on it that I hate to give up on it now", just consider this experience a "lesson learned" going forward.
 
+1

Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time (or money) making it, they say.

Been there, done that, the Barchetta in my sig, used to have two...it started as a project vehicle, and the engine is running so well I spent a lot of time and money trying to make the body and interior decent. Now after a while I'm just fed up with it...and I must have spent 3 times what the car is worth.

Sometimes it's hard to draw a line and stop.
 
Originally Posted by Popsy
Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time (or money) making it, they say.
I like this adage!
 
As has been suggested by a few posters, you either double down and go into the rabbit hole once again, or say enough is enough.

If enough money in labor and parts is spent, most vehicles can live on practically forever.
 
I don't know, I kept my old 930 going for 20 some odd years and never thought about the money I had in it. It was super reliable for the whole time. You are right though, dealing with old cars long term can be frustrating but somehow rewarding in some ways. I wouldn't consider getting rid of my old Beetle even if I had to rebuild it, I just like it.
 
 
Originally Posted by Fitz98
98 Expedition 5.4 4x4.
Here is where I am at.
Intake is off, all surrounding everything is also off.
Changing spark plugs and one (2nd from front on passenger side) is stripped out.
Timesert and locknstitch seem a little expensive (450-500.00) for one plug.
I saw one that bdCardinal recommended as well for 250.00.
These could potentially be done with heads on.
I could have someone who has Timesert kit do it for less than 100.00 if I could get him the head.
Question is, how much more work is it from here to get the head off and back on (in my driveway). And would I be needing any special tools?
Trying to decide which way to go with this.
I do plan to keep the vehicle.
[Linked Image]



I have a 98 F150 4x4 with the 2V 5.4
Although I never tossed a plug in 150K, I pulled the motor out of mine with the body still on, it kinda sucked to do. I bought a FRPP short block and built a Lightning motor for mine.

I was able to find some 8 thread (spark plug hole) heads to do my swap with, they were only made in 03/04 but you can still find them. Your heads are NPI and anything 99 and up will be PI heads, you could swap on some PI heads and intake and pick up about 30 HP...or just timecert the one hole and be done with it. I'd but a cheap borescope to ensure the cylinder is cleaned of metal following the repair.
 
Even when I was a kid working on cars 50 years ago - Pull heads -and off to the machine shop they go. They'll give you a good guy price - or have your in-town mechanic send them there for the good guy price.
 
Originally Posted by atikovi
Can't compare a vintage Porsche to a dime a dozen suv. As for examples for $2,000 in my area:

https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/cto/d/fairfax-2002-ford-expedition/6909929096.html $1,000 and just needs brake work
https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/doc/cto/d/silver-spring-2004-ford-expedition-dvd/6907427129.html much newer one for $2500 needs nothing
https://baltimore.craigslist.org/cto/d/windsor-mill-3rd-row-seat-new-tires/6909220490.html 2004 for $1200
https://fredericksburg.craigslist.org/ctd/d/culpeper-2005-ford-expedition-limited/6909639813.html 2005 for $2200


Who is comparing it? Just saying if someone wants to keep it and repair it so what they will all need repairs at some point.
 
Originally Posted by MarkM66
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Helicoil makes inserts for plug thread repair as well, They still kinda suck compared to the more expensive alternatives!!


I didn't know that, is it one of these cheap under $50 kits that doesn't cut the seat just a reamer tap?


Something like this maybe?

https://www.amazon.com/Helicoil-5334-14-Thread-Thread-Repair/dp/B0002SRF4O


I guess it would be like that one but I have not seen the one from Helicoil brand.
 
How's the body and frame on it? If they are still in good condition, it's likely worth fixing. We got rid of ours because it needed all the suspension components done, the A/C was cooked and the rockers rotted out of it. I probably would have kept it had the body not been on its way south, as mechanically, it was awesome. I never regretted getting the Lock-N-Stitch insert done by dealer, who had a local machine shop come and do it.

Thread from 2010, when it happened to me here:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2080813&page=all

Was $478.00 Canadian, so I'd be quite surprised if you were paying $500 USD for it, as it should be a fair bit cheaper.
 
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by Fitz98
Thanks guys.
bdcardinal sent me this in another post.
Seems like a good kit, any feedback on this vs locknstitch?
250.00 vs ??? for locknstitch. Time-sert is about 450-500.
CalVan Tools 38900 Two Valve Ford Triton Tool Kit


That is one of the ones I was thinking of also when I said there are cheaper alternatives, they work fine and put a nice insert in. The problem with helicoils is you have to break the tang off for one and its in an open hole which is not the best thing, they work better in blind holes.

Yeah, the other problem I can envision is when setting a helicoil, there it might be hard to gauge how deep it is set. I like the depth gauges and flanged inserts on the others.
 
I think I am going with the Cal-Van kit for 250.00 plus locktite. I like the stopper to test that the valves are closed since I would rather not remove valve covers and I like that there is a guide for the tap and drill bit.
Only downside I see to Time-Sert besides price (500.00) is it does not have a guide for the drill bit and tap.
I wonder how many people like me probably have used either of these and they just sit in the garage now like mine will.
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
How's the body and frame on it? If they are still in good condition, it's likely worth fixing. We got rid of ours because it needed all the suspension components done, the A/C was cooked and the rockers rotted out of it. I probably would have kept it had the body not been on its way south, as mechanically, it was awesome. I never regretted getting the Lock-N-Stitch insert done by dealer, who had a local machine shop come and do it.

Thread from 2010, when it happened to me here:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2080813&page=all

Was $478.00 Canadian, so I'd be quite surprised if you were paying $500 USD for it, as it should be a fair bit cheaper.

I had one go before, but I was able to get the truck to a mechanic. He did time-sert for 100.00 and I had 10's of thousands of miles put on it before installing another used engine, but it was up in the front of the vehicle. I would gladly do that again, but the towing both ways would offset the cost of the kit to do it myself. Needs to be towed because intake is off now. With that being said, you mentioned the back one on passenger side letting go on you. I think I will take Trav's advice and take care of them all while I have full easy access.
The 500.00 dollar question right now is if the Cal-Van kit for 250.00 is a good solution for this vehicle.
It has no locking method other than the threadlocker, but my logic there is neither does a spark plug going into a threaded head hole and if it backs out with the plug on future plug changes, it should be able to just thread back in with the plug.
The other big question is heat transfer. Cal-van advertise this is not a problem with their inserts. I know nothing about how heat transfer varies between the different inserts and what is the effect on the operation.
 
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Helicoil makes inserts for plug thread repair as well, They still kinda suck compared to the more expensive alternatives!!


I didn't know that, is it one of these cheap under $50 kits that doesn't cut the seat just a reamer tap?


That is correct, They work.....But it's far from ideal. Used them on the 3.0L Duratech found in Tribute/Escape/Taurus as these vehicle usually have one foot in the grave anyway.
 
VW had a similar set up for the old air cooled engines back in the 60's-70's. They worked okay with gasketed plugs so they are kind of limited in their use, not working well with a tapered seat though.
 
What method do you subscribe to for boring hole and threading?
1) the bearing grease on the drill channels and tap channels to capture shavings or
2) dry cut and vacuum/blow the cylinder after to keep the new threads and cylinder dry and clean, or
3) cutting oil on the drill bit and tap cutters then carb cleaner to clean the oils from the threads and cylinder and vacuum/blow out the cylinders.

I like the idea of the grease, but it is very time consuming but more-so I am thinking if one glob of grease with shavings attached drops into the cylinder, it is not going to be easy to blow it out or vacuum. It will likely be stuck in place.
 
I use grease on the tap flutes since the old air cooled VW days and never had a problem, not saying it is the only way but I never tried to do the job another way.
I figure its better to prevent junk from going into the cylinder than trying to get it out.
 
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