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Re: specs on BMW MTF-LT-4 [Re: cristo] #5125932 06/05/19 01:08 PM
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cristo Offline OP
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What about Amsoil Manual Synchromesh
Transmission Fluid MTF (5W30) which is
what Amsoil recommends for my year and
model MINI (at least for the n14b16c JCW
engine; they don’t have a recommendation
for the n14b16a S turbo or non-turbo).

Viscosity is 10 at 100C, 50 at 40C, VI 196,
PP -48C.

Last edited by cristo; 06/05/19 01:14 PM.
Re: specs on BMW MTF-LT-4 [Re: cristo] #5126081 06/05/19 03:00 PM
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Redline MT-85 looks like a
reasonable choice as well to me.

Last edited by cristo; 06/05/19 03:00 PM.
Re: specs on BMW MTF-LT-4 [Re: cristo] #5126482 06/05/19 09:09 PM
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zeng Offline
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Originally Posted by cristo
Redline MT-85 looks like a
reasonable choice as well to me.

MT-85 appears thicker than Amsoil Synchromesh 5W30, both at weaker KV100C levels than LT-4 . .
I would personally prefer MT-90 to either of above for full 'conformity' with LT-4 .

Last edited by zeng; 06/05/19 09:10 PM.
Re: specs on BMW MTF-LT-4 [Re: cristo] #5126619 06/06/19 05:16 AM
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Sorry to harp on this issue, but ...
My reason for shifting toward a more shear-resistant fluid with slightly less KV than virgin LT-4 oil is
that the same transmission with LSD* calls for BMW (Texaco) MTF 94 which has a 100C KV of 10.5,
40C = 53, and essentially the same transmission without LSD called for LT-3 before LT-4 came out
with viscosity of only 6.1 at 100C.
Also, as you pointed out, the KV of LT-4 apparently drops significantly with use.
I appreciate for your advice.

* (I don't have a mechanical LSD in my MINI)

Re: specs on BMW MTF-LT-4 [Re: cristo] #5132902 06/13/19 06:46 AM
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After much thought I have decided to
stay with the MTF-LT-4 and just change
it every 30-40K miles.

Last edited by cristo; 06/13/19 06:46 AM.
Re: specs on BMW MTF-LT-4 [Re: cristo] #5172390 07/27/19 06:48 PM
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Changed with LT-4 today at 37,000.

Re: specs on BMW MTF-LT-4 [Re: cristo] #5172476 07/27/19 08:37 PM
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Is the used oil with a substantial tinge of goldenish yellow/orange color , and not darkened ?

Re: specs on BMW MTF-LT-4 [Re: cristo] #5172747 07/28/19 07:51 AM
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Darkened, but the underlying color is
otherwise similar to the new oil.

Note: the UOA & VOA are on my post from 6/3/19
in this thread.

Last edited by cristo; 07/28/19 07:55 AM.
Re: specs on BMW MTF-LT-4 [Re: cristo] #5174335 07/29/19 09:27 PM
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From the VOA analysis shown for the BMW VOA in the pdf, this cannot be the Pentosin fluid I mentioned earlier: The fluid in the VOA is a 75W90.

Originally Posted by MolaKule
As I recall it is another Low Viscosity MTF with a 100C vis of around 5.9 cSt, and similar to the BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-3
.

In the analysis shown in the VOA pdf it is stated as, "BMW MTF L-4" which I assume was the exact nonmenclature on the bottle?

Notice, the Pentosin fluids state, "MTF-LT-X." The VOA analysis says "L-4."

Again, what fluid was shown in "2009 JCW CLUB-TR" UOA pdf? Was this the factory fill? The fluid shown here would be very similar to the Pentosin MTF-LT-3 or a 70W80 or thereabouts.

Bottom line: I don't think the fluid shown in UOA was the BMW MTF L-4 as I have never seen a 75W90 shear down to 7.x cSt.

Another question: How many miles on the transmission and how many miles on the fluid shown in the UOA?

Last edited by MolaKule; 07/29/19 09:32 PM.

The value of a scientific theory is its ability to prompt further study, not that it has any relation to the established facts of scientific reality.
Re: specs on BMW MTF-LT-4 [Re: cristo] #5174501 07/30/19 05:35 AM
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The VOA analysis is BMW Group MTF-LT-4 SAE 75W-90 p/n 83 22 2 339 223 API GL-3 GL-4 straight from the bottle.
The UOA is what I assumed was factory fill at about 37,000 miles. I'm not the original owner. Someone owned it for the
first couple years, then Swedish Motor's owner's wife owned it for the next 7-8 years. They didn't think the MTF had ever
been changed and they keep good records at the shop (this is where I get my MINI work done when I'm not doing it myself).
I had expressed doubt about the identity of the original fluid several posts up, but others said no, it just sheared down.
LT-3 starts with a 100 KV of only 6.1, so maybe the original LT-4 was partially replaced with LT-3 somewhere along the line.

Re: specs on BMW MTF-LT-4 [Re: cristo] #5176356 08/01/19 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by cristo
Darkened, but the underlying color is
otherwise similar to the new oil.

Note: the UOA & VOA are on my post from 6/3/19
in this thread.

Thanks.

Re: specs on BMW MTF-LT-4 [Re: cristo] #5176477 08/01/19 10:05 AM
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On second thought, the old oil had way too
much calcium zinc and phosphate to be
mostly BMW MTF LT-3, and too much
zinc and phosphate and not enough calcium
to be sheared down BMW MTF LT-4.
I wonder what it actually was??

Re: specs on BMW MTF-LT-4 [Re: cristo] #5176655 08/01/19 01:39 PM
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I’ve been looking at mtf reports and think
I have the answer to my own question.
Texaco MTF94 is commonly used as
factory fill MTF for many MINIs and has
Nearly the same Ca P and Zn as my
report shows, and has a 100C KV of
10.5 when new. It could certainly have
dropped to 7.7 after 37,000 miles.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the factory fill
was actually MTF94 even though the
transmission has an LT-4 sticker on it.
I also wouldn’t be surprised if a MINI or other
shop changed the factory fill with MTF94
at some point early in the car’s life.

Re: specs on BMW MTF-LT-4 [Re: cristo] #5177432 08/02/19 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by cristo
This is for my 2009 MINI JCW Clubman R55 with 6-speed
Getrag manual transmission.


Originally Posted by cristo
Just looked under the car.
Sticker does say LT-4.

0LT4 ;Capture.PNG
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