I posted on here when I first got my 2010 Toyota Camry V6 automatic about transmission fluid changes and more or less followed the advice not to flush and instead do drain and refills. Car now has 126k and after neither drain and refill did it really run any better. Actually, has been about 20k since last one and trans is slipping slightly on very steep grades and just generally seems not to be at its best. Am concerned place that did it may not have gotten fluid level correct since they said it only took 2 quarts based on what they drained out, and a couple of websites say it should be around 2.5 quarts. That means tranny may be a quart low now (or not). Am thinking of taking to dealer to correctly check fluid level depending on expense and then having them do a fluid exchange albeit without doing the cleaning solution which so many seem to think is harmful. Of course, they may not be willing to do it that way or not take any responsibility for what happens in the future. So, feel like I should do something about fluid and doing a flush would be better than waiting for it to get worse when there would be real problems new fluid would never solve. What do people think? Car has 126k and has had 2 drain and refills for sure and probably nothing else. Won't take it back to place that did drains because they contaminated the oil last time and am still concerned they may have done that to the trans also, which would be another reason to get all the old fluid out. All thoughts much appreciated.
2010 Camry trans slipping after 2 drains; what now?
- Thread starter Jasper8146
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Add a quart and see if the problem remains or goes away
When draining the transmission, measure how much came out, and put that much back in.
When draining the transmission, measure how much came out, and put that much back in.
Dump it yourself and put in 2.5 qts. What do you have to lose?
At this point I would be concerned about paying shops to service a trans that might have to be replaced. Do some D&Fs and see if anything improves. They might have put the wrong fluid in, put an incorrect amount in or contaminated it like you said.
At this point I would be concerned about paying shops to service a trans that might have to be replaced. Do some D&Fs and see if anything improves. They might have put the wrong fluid in, put an incorrect amount in or contaminated it like you said.
The fluid level should be adjusted at approx 104F. You need a scan tool which is capable of reading the fluid temp sensor.
As a "ballpark" check, I guess you can allow the trans to sit overnight, then start it up and allow the vehicle to warm up for 2-3 min (no more). Pull the trans check plug on the overflow tube, and check if fluid is coming out. Presumably, at this point, you should be well under the 104f threshold so lots of fluid should be draining.
As a "ballpark" check, I guess you can allow the trans to sit overnight, then start it up and allow the vehicle to warm up for 2-3 min (no more). Pull the trans check plug on the overflow tube, and check if fluid is coming out. Presumably, at this point, you should be well under the 104f threshold so lots of fluid should be draining.
"Life time" units are difficult to do correctly because the fill procedure requires that the ATF be measured within a specified temp range. It's why dealerships tend to shy away from the work. I would find a reputable shop to perform another drain an fill, but be forewarned that with regards to units built within the past 15 yrs of so, ATF changes, as a rule, do not guarantee long service life of the transmission.
I'd do a fluid exchange myself, but, I have the cheapo Techstream off ebay and can query the trans for its temperature. And thus get the fluid level correct. And I tend to be fussy like that.
If this isn't something you can do, I'd probably go to the dealer and have them do it. I doubt they'd turn you away. I mean, they deny stuff under warranty, right? so if it failed 1k after they flush it then I don't seem them feeling any pressure that it was their fault. [I kid! well mostly.]
I suspect the fluid level is just off. Wrong fluid isn't good but Aisin transmissions seem pretty robust. It could be something else entirely, perhaps a solenoid has quit or is acting up. The problem could be completely unrelated to the fluid change.
If this isn't something you can do, I'd probably go to the dealer and have them do it. I doubt they'd turn you away. I mean, they deny stuff under warranty, right? so if it failed 1k after they flush it then I don't seem them feeling any pressure that it was their fault. [I kid! well mostly.]
I suspect the fluid level is just off. Wrong fluid isn't good but Aisin transmissions seem pretty robust. It could be something else entirely, perhaps a solenoid has quit or is acting up. The problem could be completely unrelated to the fluid change.
In order to accurately check the level, Toyota will have a range of temps you need to be between when checking the fluid level.
For example from Lexus Service Bulletin:
2008 LS460 between 95F and 108F (13 degree window)
2006 LS430 between 115F and 133F (31 degree window)
2007 EX350 between 104F and 113F (9 degree window)
Unless you have the proper scan tool, this will be very difficult to do. I paid about $100 for the Scan Tool I use.
Since ATF expands as it heats up, more will come out of the "overflow" tube the hotter the fluid gets. In my cars, I try to check it at the lowest acceptable temp to try and leave me with the highest amount of ATF in my transmissions.
Some will disagree, but I would make sure I only used Toyota WS fluid in your car. I am assuming that is what the owners' manual says. Do you know which ATF they used when they did the drain and fill?
If you don't have the ability to do this yourself and since there already seems to be a problem, I'd go to a Toyota dealer and do that plain flush. At least they would (?) use the correct fluid and should know the correct temp range.
For example from Lexus Service Bulletin:
2008 LS460 between 95F and 108F (13 degree window)
2006 LS430 between 115F and 133F (31 degree window)
2007 EX350 between 104F and 113F (9 degree window)
Unless you have the proper scan tool, this will be very difficult to do. I paid about $100 for the Scan Tool I use.
Since ATF expands as it heats up, more will come out of the "overflow" tube the hotter the fluid gets. In my cars, I try to check it at the lowest acceptable temp to try and leave me with the highest amount of ATF in my transmissions.
Some will disagree, but I would make sure I only used Toyota WS fluid in your car. I am assuming that is what the owners' manual says. Do you know which ATF they used when they did the drain and fill?
If you don't have the ability to do this yourself and since there already seems to be a problem, I'd go to a Toyota dealer and do that plain flush. At least they would (?) use the correct fluid and should know the correct temp range.
I would bring it to a trusted indy transmission shop. An exchange of the ATF may prolong the life of the transmission but may not fix anything. If a part is worn then the part if worn, and 10 flushes will not fix it.
assuming the ATX was taken care of before you bought it (meaning the ATF is properly refreshed every 30K miles, toyota's 10K miles recommendation often indicates it's too late to change), there are two things to check: 1) type of fluid the shop used, if it's generic stuff, it will mesh up the friction characteristics. I did some research on this topic on my mazdas, and came away not believing the after-market fluid claiming they are all compatible with the seemingly in-compatible fluids by the OE); and 2) the ATF level was not set properly, as others have pointed out, you need a proper scan tool to check the level and it's in a very small temp window.
That being said, you face what you have on hand now, if it was me, I'd find a reputable shop/dealership, and do a complete exchange of ATF via cooler lines, and set the level properly.
That being said, you face what you have on hand now, if it was me, I'd find a reputable shop/dealership, and do a complete exchange of ATF via cooler lines, and set the level properly.
Are you sure it's slipping? Could be the converter unlocking under load, allowing RPM to increase.
I've had a few aisin trans and have never seen them slip unless the solenoid screens were loaded with debris. fluid changes don't fix that.
in a daimler trans, slipping was remedied by small amounts of lucas transfix (it's like molasses) added in to taste. you'll need to be comfortable dealing with fluid levels in your trans to try this.
if all of your fluids are healthy, you have a non-fluid problem.
in a daimler trans, slipping was remedied by small amounts of lucas transfix (it's like molasses) added in to taste. you'll need to be comfortable dealing with fluid levels in your trans to try this.
if all of your fluids are healthy, you have a non-fluid problem.
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These transmission don't have an actual dipstick so it is very critical to use a scan tool when changing the ATF to get the correct fluid level at the right temp. Improper fluid level cold cause your transmission to behave like this.
I do have one good question, if you take the car to the dealer or a indy shop to do a flush, how do these flushes work? Do they put in the same exactly amount of fluid as what they pull out? Or will they fill the proper amount no matter how much fluid was pulled out?
I do have one good question, if you take the car to the dealer or a indy shop to do a flush, how do these flushes work? Do they put in the same exactly amount of fluid as what they pull out? Or will they fill the proper amount no matter how much fluid was pulled out?
I don't think the shop that changed your fluid made a mistake when they said that they only got 2 quarts of fluid out. I have a 2011 Sienna with a U660E trans which I believe is the same as yours. I've drained and filled the ATF twice now and the first time I only got about 2 quarts out. The second time I let the vehicle sit for a couple days to allow the fluid to drain down to the pan and I got about 2.4 quarts out. Both times I raised the front of the vehicle with my jack to get the most fluid out. I used a 1000 mL graduated cylinder to measure the amounts of fluid I drained so I'd say my numbers are more accurate than most.
These transmission are very durable so I wouldn't be to worried. It may be under filled or over filled. You can also use a infrared gauge to check the temperature of the pan in order to get between 105-115 degrees. Drain and refill is what I do.
1) I'd just do it myself to make sure it was done correctly. If you don't have that capability, then a really good shop.
2) I would insist on Maxlife or a high quality WS-compatible fluid, but I would NOT use WS. It wears out quickly, creating slip and this is well known.
3) The temperature is just not as critical as indicated. The thermal expansion rate of ATF is not that large. What TheCritic said is adequate; idle a few minutes in shirtsleeve weather, or go drive around the block once or twice.
4) Are they checking the fill while running, (else it will end up low). I am guessing they are, but helps to check.
You said the car has 126k and you've done drain/fills. You did not say when you got the car and how many that has been. If you have done less than four drain/fills at average ~2qts each, I'd say this sounds perfectly normal for WS fluid with that many miles on it. You just haven't changed out enough of it to get back to a healthy % of good fluid. So:
How many drain/fills have actually been done on it since new, with what fluid?
2) I would insist on Maxlife or a high quality WS-compatible fluid, but I would NOT use WS. It wears out quickly, creating slip and this is well known.
3) The temperature is just not as critical as indicated. The thermal expansion rate of ATF is not that large. What TheCritic said is adequate; idle a few minutes in shirtsleeve weather, or go drive around the block once or twice.
4) Are they checking the fill while running, (else it will end up low). I am guessing they are, but helps to check.
You said the car has 126k and you've done drain/fills. You did not say when you got the car and how many that has been. If you have done less than four drain/fills at average ~2qts each, I'd say this sounds perfectly normal for WS fluid with that many miles on it. You just haven't changed out enough of it to get back to a healthy % of good fluid. So:
How many drain/fills have actually been done on it since new, with what fluid?
Professor Kelly on Weber Auto youtube channel did his research on the ATF, and he is very skeptical on the Maxlife ATF. Go see that video on "60-years of toyota ATF". It's a fact that Maxlife ATF does NOT have a single licence for this ATF, and it claims that it's compatible to Dexron 6, totoya T-IV, WS, etc. And we know through TSBs from Ford and Totoya, that these fluids are NOT compatible. How did Maxlife manage to create a fluid that's compatible to those fluids is everyone's guess. I would use only WS for your ATX.
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