Best substitute for Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5w-40?

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Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Haha. The "meets the requirements issue again"
laugh.gif

Pennzoil "meets the requirements". Won't lose sleep over it one bit.



Nope. if you look carefully (which you obviously did not) Pennzoil Platinum 5W40 has MB 229.5 Approval. Oil that is not given approval by Mercedes-Benz does not have MB 229.5 Approval. MB 229.5 Approval is correct way to display approval from Mercedes Benz. MB dd this in such a way precisely bcs. of oils like SuperTech. If you look back side of SuperTech it does not say MB 229.5 Approval, it just say MB229.5. That is how one knows which oils went through approval process and which did not.
As for ACEA, ACEA does not have approval process, but in-house self-regulatory process where oil company tests and says: yes, it meets ACEA requirement.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Haha. The "meets the requirements issue again"
laugh.gif

Pennzoil "meets the requirements". Won't lose sleep over it one bit.



Nope. if you look carefully (which you obviously did not) Pennzoil Platinum 5W40 has MB 229.5 Approval. Oil that is not given approval by Mercedes-Benz does not have MB 229.5 Approval. MB 229.5 Approval is correct way to display approval from Mercedes Benz. MB dd this in such a way precisely bcs. of oils like SuperTech. If you look back side of SuperTech it does not say MB 229.5 Approval, it just say MB229.5. That is how one knows which oils went through approval process and which did not.



So obvious ... not " APPROVED ... " means:

If you use the lowly SuperTech in your Benz, the motor WILL FAIL in a very short time ! Or not ...
 
The rampant inability of some posters on here to distinguish between an actual approval and a recommendation is not helped by the imprecise language of some manufacturer's listings. I contacted Pennzoil and the Platinum Euro 5W-30 and 5W-40 products do have actual BMW Longlife-01 approval despite the ambiguous way it is listed on both their containers and the PDS. Pennzoil is not doing anyone a favor by being unclear about that.

I swear the only company that is consistently clear is ExxonMobil. I'm inclined to purchase their products for that reason alone.
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
The rampant inability of some posters on here to distinguish between an actual approval and a recommendation is not helped by the imprecise language of some manufacturer's listings. I contacted Pennzoil and the Platinum Euro 5W-30 and 5W-40 products do have actual BMW Longlife-01 approval despite the ambiguous way it is listed on both their containers and the PDS. Pennzoil is not doing anyone a favor by being unclear about that.

I swear the only company that is consistently clear is ExxonMobil. I'm inclined to purchase their products for that reason alone.


Most Euro oils are very clear

Fuchs:

[Linked Image]


Total:

[Linked Image]



Some brands just want to be confusing to sell more oil I guess.
 
Originally Posted by geeman789
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Haha. The "meets the requirements issue again"
laugh.gif

Pennzoil "meets the requirements". Won't lose sleep over it one bit.



Nope. if you look carefully (which you obviously did not) Pennzoil Platinum 5W40 has MB 229.5 Approval. Oil that is not given approval by Mercedes-Benz does not have MB 229.5 Approval. MB 229.5 Approval is correct way to display approval from Mercedes Benz. MB dd this in such a way precisely bcs. of oils like SuperTech. If you look back side of SuperTech it does not say MB 229.5 Approval, it just say MB229.5. That is how one knows which oils went through approval process and which did not.



So obvious ... not " APPROVED ... " means:

If you use the lowly SuperTech in your Benz, the motor WILL FAIL in a very short time ! Or not ...



As mentioned, some manufacturers do not help with this. That is why Mercedes Benz puts Approval next to MBxxx.xx (and it is a good way to figure out whether oil manufacturer actually has that and other approvals, since MB is usually most stringent specification).
Now, whether your engine will fail or not using SuperTech is speculation on same level as whether your engine will fail of not using Mobil1 5W40 TDT or Olive oil from Costco. We do not know, however, that is the point around approvals, for people to make their decision easier.
Also, considering how cheap is to get approval, real question is: Why SUperTech does not have those approvals? What stops them from submitting request for approval? Average approval process costs between $3-5000. That means for all those approvals Wal Mart would have to shell out some $20,000. If you ask me, that is drop in the bucket considering potential sale figures. But, why not?
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Just got back from Walmart. Lots of European Formula Synthetic oil. 1 Qt and 5 liter containers.

We were clueless.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
That is not LL01. It has to be approved. I can mix olive oil, with canola oil in my kitchen and say: meets requirements.
There would be a liability on a commercial product stating that it meets requirements, when it fact it does not. I run Castrol in my AMG and Pennzoil in my C300 (both of which are MB approved), but honestly, it is laughable at times regarding the hand-wringing over specifications (I have done it myself in the past). What is going to happen if you run a "meets recommendations" oil in place of a fully approved oil--especially if you perform a UOA to set a baseline and test periodically thereafter? We WAY overthink this at BITOG, but then again, it is what we do here.
 
Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Originally Posted by edyvw
That is not LL01. It has to be approved. I can mix olive oil, with canola oil in my kitchen and say: meets requirements.
There would be a liability on a commercial product stating that it meets requirements, when it fact it does not. I run Castrol in my AMG and Pennzoil in my C300 (both of which are MB approved), but honestly, it is laughable at times regarding the hand-wringing over specifications (I have done it myself in the past). What is going to happen if you run a "meets recommendations" oil in place of a fully approved oil--especially if you perform a UOA to set a baseline and test periodically thereafter? We WAY overthink this at BITOG, but then again, it is what we do here.

Absolutely not the point. I already stated that you can run Mobil1 5W40 TDT or Shell Rotella T6 that do not indicate that it meets or exceeds and probably nothing would happen (maybe more CBU here and there etc.). Point is that when someone asks for oil that has LL01 or whatever specification, than offer as an answer product that actually has that approval.
As for liability, it would be very, very hard for individual to prove that engine or component failed due to meet and exceed and not approval. In the end company can say: yes, it is in the ball park, we did not say it is approved.
But, we circle back to key question: if oil meets or exceeds, what stops oil company to actually get approval (and approvals are dirt cheap)?
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Originally Posted by edyvw
That is not LL01. It has to be approved. I can mix olive oil, with canola oil in my kitchen and say: meets requirements.
There would be a liability on a commercial product stating that it meets requirements, when it fact it does not. I run Castrol in my AMG and Pennzoil in my C300 (both of which are MB approved), but honestly, it is laughable at times regarding the hand-wringing over specifications (I have done it myself in the past). What is going to happen if you run a "meets recommendations" oil in place of a fully approved oil--especially if you perform a UOA to set a baseline and test periodically thereafter? We WAY overthink this at BITOG, but then again, it is what we do here.

Absolutely not the point. I already stated that you can run Mobil1 5W40 TDT or Shell Rotella T6 that do not indicate that it meets or exceeds and probably nothing would happen (maybe more CBU here and there etc.). Point is that when someone asks for oil that has LL01 or whatever specification, than offer as an answer product that actually has that approval.
As for liability, it would be very, very hard for individual to prove that engine or component failed due to meet and exceed and not approval. In the end company can say: yes, it is in the ball park, we did not say it is approved.
But, we circle back to key question: if oil meets or exceeds, what stops oil company to actually get approval (and approvals are dirt cheap)?
It actually is part of the point and further, one would have the same difficulty proving that an approved oil caused an issue so in many ways that is moot--unless the oil is in no way applicable. As for why more oil brands do not pursue approvals (particularly European approvals), my thought is oils like SuperTech are not marketed to those customers—this is despite the label. Does the average MB or BMW owner "see" SuperTech as their oil or do they look at major brands? Additionally, since (apparently) the oil is already selling without the approval, WalMart may not see the need to chase approvals that may or may not increase sales.
 
Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Originally Posted by edyvw
That is not LL01. It has to be approved. I can mix olive oil, with canola oil in my kitchen and say: meets requirements.
There would be a liability on a commercial product stating that it meets requirements, when it fact it does not. I run Castrol in my AMG and Pennzoil in my C300 (both of which are MB approved), but honestly, it is laughable at times regarding the hand-wringing over specifications (I have done it myself in the past). What is going to happen if you run a "meets recommendations" oil in place of a fully approved oil--especially if you perform a UOA to set a baseline and test periodically thereafter? We WAY overthink this at BITOG, but then again, it is what we do here.

Absolutely not the point. I already stated that you can run Mobil1 5W40 TDT or Shell Rotella T6 that do not indicate that it meets or exceeds and probably nothing would happen (maybe more CBU here and there etc.). Point is that when someone asks for oil that has LL01 or whatever specification, than offer as an answer product that actually has that approval.
As for liability, it would be very, very hard for individual to prove that engine or component failed due to meet and exceed and not approval. In the end company can say: yes, it is in the ball park, we did not say it is approved.
But, we circle back to key question: if oil meets or exceeds, what stops oil company to actually get approval (and approvals are dirt cheap)?
It actually is part of the point and further, one would have the same difficulty proving that an approved oil caused an issue so in many ways that is moot--unless the oil is in no way applicable. As for why more oil brands do not pursue approvals (particularly European approvals), my thought is oils like SuperTech are not marketed to those customers—this is despite the label. Does the average MB or BMW owner "see" SuperTech as their oil or do they look at major brands? Additionally, since (apparently) the oil is already selling without the approval, WalMart may not see the need to chase approvals that may or may not increase sales.



I am sorry, but that does not make absolutely any sense. There are two options here:
1. They really want to sell that oil to customers who need that blend, but they do not want to invest enough money in it.
2. They seriously do not care what happens or what is in the bottle (it is Wal Mart brand after all).

Being involved in certain phases of oil development, this to me looks borderline negligent.

Point of approved oil is not whether it caused issue or not. Point of approved oil is that car manufacturer is telling you you a. need that oil to keep running your engine as it is designed (considering your argument, they know FAR MORE how their engines work than Wal Mart), b. we will not void your warranty if something happens.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
I am sorry, but that does not make absolutely any sense. There are two options here:
1. They really want to sell that oil to customers who need that blend, but they do not want to invest enough money in it.
2. They seriously do not care what happens or what is in the bottle (it is Wal Mart brand after all).

Being involved in certain phases of oil development, this to me looks borderline negligent.

Point of approved oil is not whether it caused issue or not. Point of approved oil is that car manufacturer is telling you you a. need that oil to keep running your engine as it is designed (considering your argument, they know FAR MORE how their engines work than Wal Mart), b. we will not void your warranty if something happens.
Do you seriously think the average MB or BMW owner would consider using SuperTech even though the label states European? The marketing of SuperTech Euro stops with the label unless our Canadian friends have seen it widely advertised.

Most SuperTech oil in the US is made by Warren, Citgo, or Exxon (depending on region) without obtaining the approvals. What is negligent about that? Do we not trust Warren, Citgo, or Exxon? Rhetorical question since SuperTech Euro has not been seen in the wild in the US to my knowledge.

I wonder how many times a "meets recommendation" oil has even caused a problem much less voided a warranty. At any rate, we will not solve this here at BITOG.
 
Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Originally Posted by edyvw
I am sorry, but that does not make absolutely any sense. There are two options here:
1. They really want to sell that oil to customers who need that blend, but they do not want to invest enough money in it.
2. They seriously do not care what happens or what is in the bottle (it is Wal Mart brand after all).

Being involved in certain phases of oil development, this to me looks borderline negligent.

Point of approved oil is not whether it caused issue or not. Point of approved oil is that car manufacturer is telling you you a. need that oil to keep running your engine as it is designed (considering your argument, they know FAR MORE how their engines work than Wal Mart), b. we will not void your warranty if something happens.
Do you seriously think the average MB or BMW owner would consider using SuperTech even though the label states European? The marketing of SuperTech Euro stops with the label unless our Canadian friends have seen it widely advertised.

Most SuperTech oil in the US is made by Warren, Citgo, or Exxon (depending on region) without obtaining the approvals. What is negligent about that? Do we not trust Warren, Citgo, or Exxon? Rhetorical question since SuperTech Euro has not been seen in the wild in the US to my knowledge.

I wonder how many times a "meets recommendation" oil has even caused a problem much less voided a warranty. At any rate, we will not solve this here at BITOG.

Average BMW or MB owner? Have you seen average BMW or MB owner? Go on forums and you will read stories of running ILSAC GF-5 oils, than questions:why my engine is suing quart in 500 miles, or why I have sludge? etc.
I do trust Mobil (not so much Citgo). However, Mobil will NOT blend what Mobil wants to blend. Mobil will blend what Wal mart wants them to blend. OMV in Austria is blending oils for OMV and Castrol, and those oils could not be more different from each other. Blender is irrelevant, who writes recipe is the key.
 
Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Do you seriously think the average MB or BMW owner would consider using SuperTech even though the label states European? The marketing of SuperTech Euro stops with the label unless our Canadian friends have seen it widely advertised.

To be totally honest, I'm not exactly sure what the point of this oil is. It's certainly not widely advertised here. Our Walmarts have, at least customarily, had M1 0w-40 and Castrol 0w-40 options available, with Castrol 5w-40 in some locations and 0w-30 in the past, and probably still at some locations. I am not sure what the Pennzoil Euro penetration is. Last time I specifically looked, there was none, but the Walmarts in this city have started to have pretty poor stocking on Euro oils, to the point that you can't even do an oil change with what's on the shelf. Nonetheless, assuming a well stocked Walmart, I don't see any advantage, even in price, of buying this Supertech Euro over whichever of M1 or Castrol is on sale at the time. Further, given that our Walmarts have such a poor selection and low stockpile of Euro lubes lately, when my god daughter needed oil for her last oil change, I didn't even bother checking out Walmart in general, much less Supertech in specific. I sent her to Canadian Tire and she got the Pennzoil Euro 5w-40.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
I do trust Mobil (not so much Citgo). However, Mobil will NOT blend what Mobil wants to blend. Mobil will blend what Wal mart wants them to blend.
Not that I doubt what you are saying, but I certainly do not see WalMart corporate as educated in the oil blending business. Rather, I would see [insert oil company here] make a recommendation based upon an existing blend and price point and WM would accept it.
 
Originally Posted by 2015_PSD
Originally Posted by edyvw
I do trust Mobil (not so much Citgo). However, Mobil will NOT blend what Mobil wants to blend. Mobil will blend what Wal mart wants them to blend.
Not that I doubt what you are saying, but I certainly do not see WalMart corporate as educated in the oil blending business. Rather, I would see [insert oil company here] make a recommendation based upon an existing blend and price point and WM would accept it.

I highly doubt Wal mart corporate is doing anything on this front. They have a team of people who will inquire about it, and solicit offers. However, regardles, what is in that bottle is far cry from anything Mobil1.
 
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