E10/E15 Gas

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Where I live most of the fuel is a E10/E15 blend. I can get ethanol free gas but it's at least $1 more than the premium E10/15 blended gas, so I usually get the ethanol fuel. In the summer months I go through the gas in my tank relatively fast but in the winter months it's not unusual for gas to sit in my tank for a month or more.

How real is this "phase separation" thing and is it something I should worry about in the winter months?

I've heard of several products that supposedly guard against this. What are your thoughts on these products??
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"Phase separation" thing is real. How long does it take? IDK. With a sealed F.I. system, a long time I would think. When not run E0 in the winter months?
 
Originally Posted by oldhp
"Phase separation" thing is real. How long does it take? IDK. With a sealed F.I. system, a long time I would think. When not run E0 in the winter months?


I have considered that but I haven't mainly due to the cost i suppose. In the winter months the ethanol free gas can easily be $4/$4.50 a gallon or more. Right now for example it's $4.17gl (don't ask me why it's that high in summer)...I was just wondering if I could save the money by adding one these products.
 
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Originally Posted by Dinoburner
The 77 in my sig gets Stabil marine when put up for winter and no problems. Also it`s added to the gas cans with 89 octane fuel, again no problems.


Is there a reason you use the Marine v. the 360?
 
I think both of those products would help. If you know your not gunna be driving for that month or so put 10 gals E0 in it and let'er sit.
 
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Im a huge no ethanol guy. Buy either toptier or gas from a heavily visited station and use Gumout w Regane once per oci. Buy a second bottle and micro treat at 1 ounce per 1000 miles. Should be fine. Keep tank no less than 1/4 full. Low gas causes most issues.
 
Just curious. My Camry book told me that E-10 was OK, but E-15 isn't. E-0 has more BTUs per gallon than E-10-15. I've had lawn mower E-10 phase shift. Never in a car. I would use E-0 if it were available.
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I've seen phase separation in my dad's lawnmower. He was asking me to help when he couldn't get it to start. It was stored for over a year using normal gas bought at gas station, which meant it probably contained ethanol. The fuel part was milky and the fuel and water separated like oil and water.

Other than that, I've never heard of it being an issue in a modern car with a properly working sealed fuel system. Any new car will have a system where the tank is pressurized with fuel vapor rather than atmospheric air. I've heard of people having oxygenated fuel (typically E10 or similar) tested after a couple of years where the fuel was fine and tested at the expected octane rating.
 
Originally Posted by y_p_w
I've seen phase separation in my dad's lawnmower. He was asking me to help when he couldn't get it to start. It was stored for over a year using normal gas bought at gas station, which meant it probably contained ethanol. The fuel part was milky and the fuel and water separated like oil and water.


Did you have to flush/dump it all out or did you use something with isopropanol?? I've heard that works/helps. I just started using Heet in the red bottle a couple times in the winter up here in the NW. Can't say I've really ever had a issue with water but I figured it couldn't hurt, no? (I'm not particularly fond of the idea of isopropanol in my fuel a couple of tanks in the winter but can it be any worse than the ethanol?)

Also, I think running E0 in the winter would be the safest bet. I suppose I could, as suggested, just keep in 5~10gl just to have something in the tank and fill up with the "regular" E10/15 if I'm out for a long run... but would there be a problem putting in ethanol blend on top of what E0 might already be in the tank???

And how much of a concern would rust be in the tank if I'm keeping the fuel level that low. When I was younger I was always told to keep the tank topped off to prevent rust. Are today's tanks better equipped to deal with rust???
 
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Originally Posted by andyd
Just curious. My Camry book told me that E-10 was OK, but E-15 isn't. E-0 has more BTUs per gallon than E-10-15. I've had lawn mower E-10 phase shift. Never in a car. I would use E-0 if it were available.
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Most stations here around me do use E10 but I've been on the road in Oregon, Idaho and up around Seattle and stopped and had to use E15 because that's all there was. I would love to use regular E10 but man, at $4+ or more per gallon that's practically a $100 to fill up!
 
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Only vented tanks like lawn mowers and my old motorcycle need worry about phase separation as they will continue to absorb moisture from the atmosphere in storage. In modern sealed tanks air only gets in as the fuel is used up. Not wanting to pay for water, what would worry me is how much water the fuel contains when you buy it. Hopefully none. I wonder if there is a spec that filling stations must comply with.
 
Per the DOE (Dept of Energy) it takes approx 3 months for phase separation to occur in a high humidity environment.


Gasoline itself goes stale well before then.
 
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by y_p_w
I've seen phase separation in my dad's lawnmower. He was asking me to help when he couldn't get it to start. It was stored for over a year using normal gas bought at gas station, which meant it probably contained ethanol. The fuel part was milky and the fuel and water separated like oil and water.


Did you have to flush/dump it all out or did you use something with isopropanol?? I've heard that works/helps. I just started using Heet in the red bottle a couple times in the winter up here in the NW. Can't say I've really ever had a issue with water but I figured it couldn't hurt, no? (I'm not particularly fond of the idea of isopropanol in my fuel a couple of tanks in the winter but can it be any worse than the ethanol?)

Also, I think running E0 in the winter would be the safest bet. I suppose I could, as suggested, just keep in 5~10gl just to have something in the tank and fill up with the "regular" E10/15 if I'm out for a long run... but would there be a problem putting in ethanol blend on top of what E0 might already be in the tank???

And how much of a concern would rust be in the tank if I'm keeping the fuel level that low. When I was younger I was always told to keep the tank topped off to prevent rust. Are today's tanks better equipped to deal with rust???

Not sure what he did with it.

I mean, there's specific small engine gasoline, but it's extremely expensive. I don't know if I'd even think of using any unless equipment is going in storage. Just use up the fuel in the tank and partially fill. And even then if water gets into the fuel then E10 would help to blend it.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/TruFuel-4-Cycle-Ethanol-Free-Fuel-6527238/203571144

I don't believe that people like gardeners with leaf blowers really worry about their equipment that they use every week. As long as the fuel is used it should never get to the point where there's phase separation.
 
Originally Posted by barryh
Only vented tanks like lawn mowers and my old motorcycle need worry about phase separation as they will continue to absorb moisture from the atmosphere in storage. In modern sealed tanks air only gets in as the fuel is used up. Not wanting to pay for water, what would worry me is how much water the fuel contains when you buy it. Hopefully none. I wonder if there is a spec that filling stations must comply with.

Most have moisture filters before the flow detection that measures the amount of fuel dispensed. When some pumps were extremely slow, I was told it was because the filters needed replacement. It should still pump, but where there's more restriction.
 
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Most stations here around me do use E10 but I've been on the road in Oregon, Idaho and up around Seattle and stopped and had to use E15 because that's all there was. I would love to use regular E10 but man, at $4+ or more per gallon that's practically a $100 to fill up!

Call me ignorant, but no E10, only E15? How do people cope with old cars like mine? Or are you saying there was E10 but it was over $4 a gallon? Even in Idaho?
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Most stations here around me do use E10 but I've been on the road in Oregon, Idaho and up around Seattle and stopped and had to use E15 because that's all there was. I would love to use regular E10 but man, at $4+ or more per gallon that's practically a $100 to fill up!

Call me ignorant, but no E10, only E15? How do people cope with old cars like mine? Or are you saying there was E10 but it was over $4 a gallon? Even in Idaho?


No, sorry that's a typo. Typing this up, going back and forth between EXX, I errantly typed E10. I was referring to using E0 all the time. I would love to use the non ethanol but it's cost prohibitive. Right now E0 is about $4.20gl (in the winter it can go as high as $4.50'ish) and the premium grade E10 is about $3.40gl, so it's nearly a dollar more per gallon. I usually just put in 89 pump E10 at about $3gl. I think it's about $3.07 right now at the 76 I usually go to. So using the E0 would add about $23'ish to the cost of my fill up.

I suppose I should just be happy that E0 is an option for me. I understand many states/places can't get it. I think (don't quote me on this) technically by law, the E0 is supposed to go into marine and toys only??? But the service station here don't care.. I've never seen the E0 pump out of commission so I don't think they're getting into any kind of trouble with Weights and Measurements?
 
It seems my Toro mower is finicky with the ethanol fuel. The longer the gas is in the gas can or gas reservoir, the harder it seems to start.

I think I'm going to start putting in E0 during the end of the cutting season so that it's stored with non ethanol fuel. My understanding is ethanol is bad for the carb??
 
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Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by Dinoburner
The 77 in my sig gets Stabil marine when put up for winter and no problems. Also it`s added to the gas cans with 89 octane fuel, again no problems.


Is there a reason you use the Marine v. the 360?

A service tech on boats, that said have seen no difference, both are fine.
 
Originally Posted by Dinoburner
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by Dinoburner
The 77 in my sig gets Stabil marine when put up for winter and no problems. Also it`s added to the gas cans with 89 octane fuel, again no problems.


Is there a reason you use the Marine v. the 360?

A service tech on boats, that said have seen no difference, both are fine.


Got it, was thinking that. It's just a marketing thing...ðŸ‘
 
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