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E10/E15 Gas #5132690 06/12/19 09:17 PM
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Mad_Hatter Offline OP
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Where I live most of the fuel is a E10/E15 blend. I can get ethanol free gas but it's at least $1 more than the premium E10/15 blended gas, so I usually get the ethanol fuel. In the summer months I go through the gas in my tank relatively fast but in the winter months it's not unusual for gas to sit in my tank for a month or more.

How real is this "phase separation" thing and is it something I should worry about in the winter months?

I've heard of several products that supposedly guard against this. What are your thoughts on these products?? [Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 06/12/19 09:21 PM.
Re: E10/E15 Gas [Re: Mad_Hatter] #5132702 06/12/19 09:27 PM
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oldhp Online Content
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"Phase separation" thing is real. How long does it take? IDK. With a sealed F.I. system, a long time I would think. When not run E0 in the winter months?


2018 RAM 1500 3.6/8 speed.
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"When others cut you down, remember where they came from."
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Re: E10/E15 Gas [Re: oldhp] #5132706 06/12/19 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by oldhp
"Phase separation" thing is real. How long does it take? IDK. With a sealed F.I. system, a long time I would think. When not run E0 in the winter months?


I have considered that but I haven't mainly due to the cost i suppose. In the winter months the ethanol free gas can easily be $4/$4.50 a gallon or more. Right now for example it's $4.17gl (don't ask me why it's that high in summer)...I was just wondering if I could save the money by adding one these products.

Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 06/12/19 09:33 PM.
Re: E10/E15 Gas [Re: Mad_Hatter] #5132724 06/12/19 10:04 PM
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Dinoburner Offline
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The 77 in my sig gets Stabil marine when put up for winter and no problems. Also it`s added to the gas cans with 89 octane fuel, again no problems.


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Re: E10/E15 Gas [Re: Dinoburner] #5132750 06/12/19 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Dinoburner
The 77 in my sig gets Stabil marine when put up for winter and no problems. Also it`s added to the gas cans with 89 octane fuel, again no problems.


Is there a reason you use the Marine v. the 360?

Re: E10/E15 Gas [Re: Mad_Hatter] #5132769 06/12/19 11:00 PM
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oldhp Online Content
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I think both of those products would help. If you know your not gunna be driving for that month or so put 10 gals E0 in it and let'er sit.

Last edited by oldhp; 06/12/19 11:00 PM.

2018 RAM 1500 3.6/8 speed.
2019 Dodge Charger SXT 3.6/8 speed.
"When others cut you down, remember where they came from."
"I don't run...........I just wait"
Re: E10/E15 Gas [Re: Mad_Hatter] #5132776 06/12/19 11:09 PM
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Marco620 Offline
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Im a huge no ethanol guy. Buy either toptier or gas from a heavily visited station and use Gumout w Regane once per oci. Buy a second bottle and micro treat at 1 ounce per 1000 miles. Should be fine. Keep tank no less than 1/4 full. Low gas causes most issues.


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Re: E10/E15 Gas [Re: Mad_Hatter] #5132791 06/12/19 11:43 PM
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andyd Offline
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Just curious. My Camry book told me that E-10 was OK, but E-15 isn't. E-0 has more BTUs per gallon than E-10-15. I've had lawn mower E-10 phase shift. Never in a car. I would use E-0 if it were available. grin2


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Re: E10/E15 Gas [Re: Mad_Hatter] #5132797 06/13/19 12:01 AM
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y_p_w Offline
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I've seen phase separation in my dad's lawnmower. He was asking me to help when he couldn't get it to start. It was stored for over a year using normal gas bought at gas station, which meant it probably contained ethanol. The fuel part was milky and the fuel and water separated like oil and water.

Other than that, I've never heard of it being an issue in a modern car with a properly working sealed fuel system. Any new car will have a system where the tank is pressurized with fuel vapor rather than atmospheric air. I've heard of people having oxygenated fuel (typically E10 or similar) tested after a couple of years where the fuel was fine and tested at the expected octane rating.

Re: E10/E15 Gas [Re: y_p_w] #5132816 06/13/19 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by y_p_w
I've seen phase separation in my dad's lawnmower. He was asking me to help when he couldn't get it to start. It was stored for over a year using normal gas bought at gas station, which meant it probably contained ethanol. The fuel part was milky and the fuel and water separated like oil and water.


Did you have to flush/dump it all out or did you use something with isopropanol?? I've heard that works/helps. I just started using Heet in the red bottle a couple times in the winter up here in the NW. Can't say I've really ever had a issue with water but I figured it couldn't hurt, no? (I'm not particularly fond of the idea of isopropanol in my fuel a couple of tanks in the winter but can it be any worse than the ethanol?)

Also, I think running E0 in the winter would be the safest bet. I suppose I could, as suggested, just keep in 5~10gl just to have something in the tank and fill up with the "regular" E10/15 if I'm out for a long run... but would there be a problem putting in ethanol blend on top of what E0 might already be in the tank???

And how much of a concern would rust be in the tank if I'm keeping the fuel level that low. When I was younger I was always told to keep the tank topped off to prevent rust. Are today's tanks better equipped to deal with rust???

Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 06/13/19 12:55 AM.
Re: E10/E15 Gas [Re: andyd] #5132821 06/13/19 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by andyd
Just curious. My Camry book told me that E-10 was OK, but E-15 isn't. E-0 has more BTUs per gallon than E-10-15. I've had lawn mower E-10 phase shift. Never in a car. I would use E-0 if it were available. grin2


Most stations here around me do use E10 but I've been on the road in Oregon, Idaho and up around Seattle and stopped and had to use E15 because that's all there was. I would love to use regular E10 but man, at $4+ or more per gallon that's practically a $100 to fill up!

Last edited by Mad_Hatter; 06/13/19 01:04 AM.
Re: E10/E15 Gas [Re: Mad_Hatter] #5132887 06/13/19 06:25 AM
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barryh Offline
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Only vented tanks like lawn mowers and my old motorcycle need worry about phase separation as they will continue to absorb moisture from the atmosphere in storage. In modern sealed tanks air only gets in as the fuel is used up. Not wanting to pay for water, what would worry me is how much water the fuel contains when you buy it. Hopefully none. I wonder if there is a spec that filling stations must comply with.


Barry

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Re: E10/E15 Gas [Re: Mad_Hatter] #5132888 06/13/19 06:25 AM
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Per the DOE (Dept of Energy) it takes approx 3 months for phase separation to occur in a high humidity environment.


Gasoline itself goes stale well before then.


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Re: E10/E15 Gas [Re: Mad_Hatter] #5132961 06/13/19 08:02 AM
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y_p_w Offline
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Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by y_p_w
I've seen phase separation in my dad's lawnmower. He was asking me to help when he couldn't get it to start. It was stored for over a year using normal gas bought at gas station, which meant it probably contained ethanol. The fuel part was milky and the fuel and water separated like oil and water.


Did you have to flush/dump it all out or did you use something with isopropanol?? I've heard that works/helps. I just started using Heet in the red bottle a couple times in the winter up here in the NW. Can't say I've really ever had a issue with water but I figured it couldn't hurt, no? (I'm not particularly fond of the idea of isopropanol in my fuel a couple of tanks in the winter but can it be any worse than the ethanol?)

Also, I think running E0 in the winter would be the safest bet. I suppose I could, as suggested, just keep in 5~10gl just to have something in the tank and fill up with the "regular" E10/15 if I'm out for a long run... but would there be a problem putting in ethanol blend on top of what E0 might already be in the tank???

And how much of a concern would rust be in the tank if I'm keeping the fuel level that low. When I was younger I was always told to keep the tank topped off to prevent rust. Are today's tanks better equipped to deal with rust???

Not sure what he did with it.

I mean, there’s specific small engine gasoline, but it’s extremely expensive. I don’t know if I’d even think of using any unless equipment is going in storage. Just use up the fuel in the tank and partially fill. And even then if water gets into the fuel then E10 would help to blend it.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/TruFuel-4-Cycle-Ethanol-Free-Fuel-6527238/203571144

I don’t believe that people like gardeners with leaf blowers really worry about their equipment that they use every week. As long as the fuel is used it should never get to the point where there’s phase separation.

Re: E10/E15 Gas [Re: barryh] #5132967 06/13/19 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by barryh
Only vented tanks like lawn mowers and my old motorcycle need worry about phase separation as they will continue to absorb moisture from the atmosphere in storage. In modern sealed tanks air only gets in as the fuel is used up. Not wanting to pay for water, what would worry me is how much water the fuel contains when you buy it. Hopefully none. I wonder if there is a spec that filling stations must comply with.

Most have moisture filters before the flow detection that measures the amount of fuel dispensed. When some pumps were extremely slow, I was told it was because the filters needed replacement. It should still pump, but where there’s more restriction.

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