XT-M5-QS Alternatives?

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Has anyone found an alternative to the Ford specified fluid (XT-M5-QS) for the MTX-75 manual transmission? I have been running Redline D4 ATF as it met the specs for the fluid the QS superseded and it has served me well. However, I am always open to suggestions and want to make sure I am running the best product I can. Althought my owners manual suggests the old ATF, my car actually came equipped with the QS; the fluid was honey color when I drained it. I was not overly impressed with the performance of the fluid, finding it much harder to shift than the D4. Of note, I take the car to HPDE's, will be fitting a Torsen helical ATBD in the near future and rev-match on downshifts so as to be as kind as possible to the gearbox however I do drive in a spirited fashion. The 8.5lb aluminum flywheel I have means that I have most likely reduced the load on the transmission significantly.

I have contacted Redline, no reply yet.
 
My son changed out Torco RTF (much better than stock Ford fluid)and used Specialty Formulations MTL-P in his 2002 Ford Focus Zetec 5 speed.

It really is nice.....very smooth with a firm feel which we like. Some may want a less firm feel, SynchroGlide is thinner, MTFGlide thinner yet. IMO top qualty products at fair prices. Give them a look, a call and a try.

http://www.specialtyformulations.com/index_files/Page457.htm
 
I have a 1996 Contour with that tranny. The Mercon it came with was "lacking" to say the least. I went with that expensive special gold color and priced XT-M5-QS Ford synthetic tranny fluid and the shifting improved tremendously. I'm probably going to change it soon. It'll be about 40,000 miles on the Ford syn. I'm definitely going with MolaKules Specialty Formulations. In fact I just received my order of SynchroGlide for my 2002 F-150 manual tranny. It also came with Mercon and su*ked in shifting to be polite. I changed to Schaeffer's #204S Mercon/Dexron III ATF and the shifting improved tremendously but I'm still not happy. I'm going to install the SynchroGlide. It's more viscous than the Mercon type ATF fluids yet not as viscous as the MTL-P. I still need winter shifting quality because it sits outdoors. I think COS in Chicago area installed the MTL-P in his Focus recently. I'll be most interested to see how he fairs for the rest of the winter with shifting. Does anybody know what the viscosity of the "golden" Ford synthetic tranny, XT-M5-QS, fluid is? Either way I'll either use the MTL-P or the SynchroGlide.

Whimsey
 
I use Mercon V in my MTX-75 and it make quite an improvement over the regular Mercon, particularly in cold weather.

I also used Mercon V in my T5 with the same results.
 
Redline replied to my inquiry. Here is what they said.

quote:

The fluid we recommend for the MTX-75 transaxle is the MTL, it satisfies the fluid spec and will perform well.

Anyone have any experience with MTL in the MTX-75?
 
This is a common topic on www.coutour.org

There are lots of alternatives for the MTX-75 trans.

Factory fill until part way into the 2000 model year was Mercon.

Someone discovered that adding 2 oz of Ford friction modifier to the stock fluid made a big difference in overall shift quality and that became a common addition (it really works quite well).

Several started using Mobil 1 ATF which is a full synthetic with Mercon Spec and adding Ford friction modifier. Many were very happy with that.

A few have used Mercon V (which is a semi synthetic), with and without friction modifier. Reports were good on that too, especially with the friction modifier added.

Someone tried the Chrysler spec ATF+3 dino fluid and many have reported that this fluid provides the best overall shift quality of any of the fluids. No additional friction modifier is needed as it has a higher level to begin with.

A few have tried ATF+4 and report that it works as well or better than ATF+3. ATF+4 is a semi synthetic. Both ATF+3 and ATF+4 are used in some Chrysler manual transmissions.

Terry Haines, a former Ford powertrain engineer that was involved with development of the Mondeo (Contour) and now owns a specialty shop in the Grand Rapids area of Michigan (probably the most knowledable person there is on that trans) likes the Ford honey fluid best, with friction modifier added. He reports that on teardown he finds virtually no wear when that fluid is used. Ford honey is a GL-4 gear oil, 75w90 IIRC.

There is also a loyal following that have used Redline MTL. MTL is a GL-4 fluid. They report that no additional friction modifier is needed.

Redline also makes an ATF type fluid that many have used instead of Mobil 1. MT90. Those that use it say that added friction modifier is recommended.

Receintly a few have tried GM Synchro (Synchroshift or Synchromesh, I don't remember which) and report that it works well. It is a dino fluid. I don't know if they have been adding friction modifier.

Penzoil is the supplier for GM Synchro. The Penzoil fluid is available in both dino and synthetic. There is an unconfirmed rumor that the Ford Honey is relabeled Penzoil synthetic.

There may be more, but that is what I remember off the top of my head.

I have used Mercon, ATF+3, and Ford Honey with added friction modifier in my 98 Contour SVT. As far as overall shift quality is concerned, the ATF+3 and the Ford Honey with friction modifier operate just about the same with maybe a very slight edge toward the Ford Honey. I have three bottles of ATF+4 on the shelf for the next time I change fluid.

From the reports back on Redline MTL you should be just fine with it. It may easily be the best bang for the buck for synthetic GL-4 fluid for that trans.

The best bang for the buck on dino ATF would be ATF+3.

It is interesting that the fluid for this trans was originally dino ATF and that it later changed to synthetic GL-4, with the recommendation that the GL-4 could be backfitted for both drain and refill as well as top off.

Are you confused yet?
 
If I remember correctly, the Valvoline Durablend Mercon/Mercon V I used in the MTX-75 is also recommended for ATF+3/ATF+4 applications.

The Valvoline Mercon V I used in the T5 is recommended for ATF+3/ATF+4 applications, per the label.

What, exactly the difference between Valvoline Mercon V and Valvoline Durablend Mercon/Mercon V is, I'm not sure. They carry the same ratings and are about the same price.
 
Can a scale of the fluids be made that would indicate which provide the most protection and which provide the least or is it way more complicated than that?
 
I know without a doubt that MTFGlide would offer more wear protection than any ATF, if that's what your transmission specs and prefers.

As I have stated before, ATF's are specified primarily for their cold weather shiftability, but lack the proper EP/AW additives for long term durability - the main reason we developed MTFGlide.

The MTFGlide has a GL4 EP rating with the same viscosity as an ATF, and provides the correct friction modification for synchro engagement.

ATF has minimal EP protection and just enough AW additives to protect the bearings, as compared to MTFGlide. Go to the Virgin Oil Analysis section and compare ATF's with any MT lube and you'll prove it to yourself. No only do we use organo-metallic EP and AW additives, we also use some purely organic components.

In addition, MTFGlide's TBN starts out much higher than ATF and TBN retention is excellent, to continue fighting acid (TAN) buildup over the long haul.
 
Thank you MolaKule. I am wondering what your opinion is the fact that spec has changed from a Mercon to a 75w90. What would you suggest following?
 
If they are now specifying a 75W90, then the MTL-R should be a perfect fit.

And oh yes, and welcome
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[ February 24, 2005, 10:56 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
 
Well, I went with the MTL-P as I was a little apprehensive about running a 75w-90. All I can say is wow. I just got back from Virginia International Raceway and 185 miles on the shift intensive South course. By the end of the day, I was able to left foot brake with total confidence because I could simple do a rev match and slide the shifter into gear without the clutch. No grinding and the MTL-P would make-up a 200 rpm cushion without any problems. This is at 6000+rpm. MolaKule
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TeamDFL,
Thanks for your timely imput. I was just about to order some of SF's SynchroGlide for my 1996 Contour. But now I'll order their MTL-P
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.

Whimsey
 
quote:

Originally posted by MolaKule:
Sounds like you have an excellent tranny there as well, TeamDFL.

A lot of people dislike the MTX-75. I have had nothing but good experiences with mine. The linkage is positive and direct, and while it does not like to be shifted very quickly, it is a good 'box when shifted with some care. Of course, shifting it without the clutch may not fit that definition.
 
Is the A65M-R in the Mazda 6s the same transmission as the MTX-75? It sits on a duratec 3.0 v6 as well. I just dropped some MTL-R goodness into that baby. Man whats in that stuff, it was like dumping redwine in the transaxle, smelled pretty good too
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Tranny shifts like someone just removed friction from gear engagement.
 
I don't believe so. I think that the MTX-75 is confined to use on the Mazda 3 and the Duratec I4. The Contour used the MTX-75 with a Duratec V6, so it could be that the Mazda trans is a derivative of the Ford unit.
 
I have 2 4R70Ws and a 1980 AOD. All are using Mercon-V.

My routine is to change it out every 20k miles (pan drop, TC drain, filter change) with new Mercon-V at $3/qt.

Mercon-V has a different friction modifier and additive package over Mercon, as well as being a Group III/synthetic "blend".

The reason your transmissions are shifting smoother and firmer is because of the Friction Modifier package used in M-V compared to Mercon.

M-V was originally developed as a band-aid fix for the TC shudder problem on the 4R70W. An easier fix would have been to eliminate programmed slippage of the TC, duh!
 
quote:

Originally posted by metroplex:
I have 2 4R70Ws and a 1980 AOD. All are using Mercon-V.

My routine is to change it out every 20k miles (pan drop, TC drain, filter change) with new Mercon-V at $3/qt.

Mercon-V has a different friction modifier and additive package over Mercon, as well as being a Group III/synthetic "blend".

The reason your transmissions are shifting smoother and firmer is because of the Friction Modifier package used in M-V compared to Mercon.

M-V was originally developed as a band-aid fix for the TC shudder problem on the 4R70W. An easier fix would have been to eliminate programmed slippage of the TC, duh!


I believe you are confused as to the subject of this topic. XT-M5-QS is a manual transmission lubricant and therefore has nothing to do with torque converters.
 
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