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Re: 2008 Chev Malibu 2.4 stumbling/stalling [Re: irv] #5130606
06/10/19 06:15 PM
06/10/19 06:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,665
Toronto Canada
WobblyElvis Offline
WobblyElvis  Offline

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,665
Toronto Canada
The crankshaft position sensor is just under the oil filter housing and about 2 inches towards the passenger side. Suggest, with battery disconnected, remove and re install the multi pin plugs to the ECM. Do this a few times, when installing the plugs latch them all the way, un-latch, remove, re-install all the way, remove, re-install.
Make sure they are sealed well when done.

Re: 2008 Chev Malibu 2.4 stumbling/stalling [Re: WobblyElvis] #5130641
06/10/19 06:52 PM
06/10/19 06:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,921
Oshawa, Ont. Canada
irv Offline OP
irv  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,921
Oshawa, Ont. Canada
Originally Posted by oilpsi2high
Has it ever happened when it wasn't raining/damp?

If so, timing chain for $ 400, Alex.

Also scan the codes, that'll tell you what the problem is... You can buy a code scanner for $ 40 or just have an auto parts store do it for free.

if it's only when it's damp it's probably ignition related. Again, reading stored codes will tell the story.


My wife was able to get a print out of all the warranty work that was done to this car. I am glad to see the Timing chain and tensioner were replaced back in 2014 with 71,000 kms on the car so I don't think that is my problem? (the car currently has 160,000 kms on it)


Originally Posted by Popsy
Look at live data, misfire count and fuel trim, also O2 sensor voltage.

I was in Toronto last week, could have lent you my scanner wink

I has similar symptoms in the past with two different cars, and each time it was the O2 sensor, but in your case I wouldn't be so quick to accuse it.

Maybe you can put marks/numbers on coils and move them around ? Coil 1 to cylinder 2, etc, to rule out an ignition problem.

Also crank sensor can go bad suddenly (especially when hot) and partially/somewhat recover enough, engine management is usually pretty good at "recovering" missing data till it can't anymore.


I am leaning towards the crank sensor as well and hope to get a look at it tomorrow.

Originally Posted by WobblyElvis
The crankshaft position sensor is just under the oil filter housing and about 2 inches towards the passenger side. Suggest, with battery disconnected, remove and re install the multi pin plugs to the ECM. Do this a few times, when installing the plugs latch them all the way, un-latch, remove, re-install all the way, remove, re-install.
Make sure they are sealed well when done.


Was thinking about doing that as well as some others then applying some dielectric grease to them as a final step. I have read up on fretting corrosion as being an issue on these cars and read to do this to the BCM as well.

In the list my wife obtained, it reads the BCM and BPPS harness and connector was repaired at 105,000 kms back in 2014 as well.
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2014/RCRIT-14V252-3751P.pdf


2017 Chevy Impala 3.6 L.
2013 Ram 5.7 L Hemi Bighorn QC 4x4
2008 Chevy Malibu 2.4 L Ecotec
Pennzoil Platinum and/or Pennzoil Ultra Platinum in all 3.
Re: 2008 Chev Malibu 2.4 stumbling/stalling [Re: irv] #5131558
06/11/19 04:16 PM
06/11/19 04:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,921
Oshawa, Ont. Canada
irv Offline OP
irv  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,921
Oshawa, Ont. Canada
Well, I took my son's car in to my bud's shop and had no luck with scanning. The most he got was some intermittent stalling reading but it didn't narrow it down any after he looked it up.
We checked a bunch of things but nothing stood out.

Like I mentioned, the car received the BCM and BPPS harness and connector repair, which was a recall/update back in 2014. It was due to corrosion fretting which is talked about here. https://www.chevymalibuforum.com/fo...sion-service-traction-control-ecs-2.html
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2014/RCRIT-14V252-3751P.pdf

I decided, once home, to remove and clean all the grounds I could see under the hood. After a wire brush/sand, I applied dielectric grease, including the ground cable on the battery. All connections looked fairly cleaned.
After that, I opened a few plug connectors plus the camshaft sensor and cleaned all those areas as well.

When I was taking the car in this morning it started and ran great until I was underway approx 2 kms then it acted up and stalled on me. When I was cranking to start it, I swore I heard the car door locks moving slightly like going up and down but only a mm or 2?? The car eventually started and ran fine the rest of the way or approximately 15-20 kms.

Like my buddy said, who has seen this before, it is just one of those things that can't be narrowed down until a code is present unless you want to start throwing money at it in hopes you get it.

I'll see how it goes after the next rain or wash and hopefully a code will eventually pop?

Thanks for all your help, I appreciate that very much.

cheers

Last edited by irv; 06/11/19 04:18 PM.

2017 Chevy Impala 3.6 L.
2013 Ram 5.7 L Hemi Bighorn QC 4x4
2008 Chevy Malibu 2.4 L Ecotec
Pennzoil Platinum and/or Pennzoil Ultra Platinum in all 3.
Re: 2008 Chev Malibu 2.4 stumbling/stalling [Re: irv] #5131793
06/11/19 09:42 PM
06/11/19 09:42 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,245
Fort Worth, Texas
clinebarger Offline
clinebarger  Offline

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,245
Fort Worth, Texas
Ignition Switches are a known failure point on these cars.

*With the car idling in park.....Put pressure on the key Up & Down (Vertically) & see if the engine stalls, Do not rotate the key in the cylinder. This doesn't alway cull a bad ignition switch, But worth a try.

*The second way is too remove the Knee Bolster & remove the Ignition Switch & Key Cylinder assembly from the Dash Carrier.....Let it hang down & wiggle the electrical connector with the engine running.

*In a perfect world......I would recommend a "Graphing Multimeter with logging capability" so you can record/log any power drop-outs on the ignition switch output circuits.
You could simply use a Test Light or Multimeter......But the drop-out could be for fractions of a second & it can be dangerous trying to pay attention to test equipment while driving.

You could always just throw a new switch at it, I hate doing that myself.


2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/U341E
2000 Toyota Avalon 1MZ-FE/A541E
Re: 2008 Chev Malibu 2.4 stumbling/stalling [Re: clinebarger] #5132207
06/12/19 10:36 AM
06/12/19 10:36 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,921
Oshawa, Ont. Canada
irv Offline OP
irv  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,921
Oshawa, Ont. Canada
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Ignition Switches are a known failure point on these cars.

*With the car idling in park.....Put pressure on the key Up & Down (Vertically) & see if the engine stalls, Do not rotate the key in the cylinder. This doesn't alway cull a bad ignition switch, But worth a try.

*The second way is too remove the Knee Bolster & remove the Ignition Switch & Key Cylinder assembly from the Dash Carrier.....Let it hang down & wiggle the electrical connector with the engine running.

*In a perfect world......I would recommend a "Graphing Multimeter with logging capability" so you can record/log any power drop-outs on the ignition switch output circuits.
You could simply use a Test Light or Multimeter......But the drop-out could be for fractions of a second & it can be dangerous trying to pay attention to test equipment while driving.

You could always just throw a new switch at it, I hate doing that myself.


My wife was able to do some digging at work yesterday (works in GM office) and was informed the 08 Malibu's were not part of the ignition switch recall/update. I will try what you suggest just the same to eliminate that possibility but I also don't think that is the problem?

Of course my son's car ran perfect this morning with no signs of a stumble or a stall. The real test will be after another rain or wash. Fingers crossed here that what I did yesterday helped/stopped the condition but I am not holding my breath.

Thanks for the info. cheers


2017 Chevy Impala 3.6 L.
2013 Ram 5.7 L Hemi Bighorn QC 4x4
2008 Chevy Malibu 2.4 L Ecotec
Pennzoil Platinum and/or Pennzoil Ultra Platinum in all 3.
Re: 2008 Chev Malibu 2.4 stumbling/stalling [Re: irv] #5132210
06/12/19 10:41 AM
06/12/19 10:41 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 11,395
OH
SatinSilver Offline
SatinSilver  Offline

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 11,395
OH
Originally Posted by irv
I will try what you suggest just the same to eliminate that possibility but I also don't think that is the problem?


irv,

The previous owner(s) could have used a heavy set of keys while operating the car thus weakening the ignition cylinder. Esp if that part is prone to issues. Good luck and hope you get it sorted for your son. It seems like he just got that car not long ago. thumbsup

Re: 2008 Chev Malibu 2.4 stumbling/stalling [Re: irv] #5132276
06/12/19 12:18 PM
06/12/19 12:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,880
Phoenix
dishdude Offline
dishdude  Offline

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,880
Phoenix
I don't think an ignition switch would make the engine miss like shown in the video. I'm leaning towards loose or damaged wiring.


2018 Challenger SRT 392 PUP 0w-40 Wix 57899XP
2018 GTI
Re: 2008 Chev Malibu 2.4 stumbling/stalling [Re: irv] #5132287
06/12/19 12:30 PM
06/12/19 12:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,777
Canada
addyguy Offline
addyguy  Offline

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,777
Canada
Timing chain wear causing timing to be off?

These engines have issues with oil burning, low oil levels, and timing chain wear from it.

Does he keep the oil topped off, or let it go low?


2010 Kia Soul 2U - 2.0L I-4, auto; 143k miles.
Castrol GTX HM 5W-30, STP blue bottle; Fram TG 9688.

2009 Pontiac G5 - 2.2 I-4, auto, 121k miles.
Oil/filter TBD
Re: 2008 Chev Malibu 2.4 stumbling/stalling [Re: addyguy] #5132310
06/12/19 12:55 PM
06/12/19 12:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,921
Oshawa, Ont. Canada
irv Offline OP
irv  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,921
Oshawa, Ont. Canada
Originally Posted by SatinSilver
Originally Posted by irv
I will try what you suggest just the same to eliminate that possibility but I also don't think that is the problem?


irv,

The previous owner(s) could have used a heavy set of keys while operating the car thus weakening the ignition cylinder. Esp if that part is prone to issues. Good luck and hope you get it sorted for your son. It seems like he just got that car not long ago. thumbsup


Thanks SS. He is home now so I will go try that soon.

Originally Posted by dishdude
I don't think an ignition switch would make the engine miss like shown in the video. I'm leaning towards loose or damaged wiring.


My thoughts as well. A chaffed wire somewhere that picks up moisture when it rains or is washed.

Originally Posted by addyguy
Timing chain wear causing timing to be off?

These engines have issues with oil burning, low oil levels, and timing chain wear from it.

Does he keep the oil topped off, or let it go low?


The timing chain and tensioner was done back in 2014. The car has been great on oil with zero consumption issues to date despite him putting on over 20 K (kms) since we got it last August.

Thanks guys cheers


2017 Chevy Impala 3.6 L.
2013 Ram 5.7 L Hemi Bighorn QC 4x4
2008 Chevy Malibu 2.4 L Ecotec
Pennzoil Platinum and/or Pennzoil Ultra Platinum in all 3.
Re: 2008 Chev Malibu 2.4 stumbling/stalling [Re: SatinSilver] #5132427
06/12/19 03:22 PM
06/12/19 03:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,921
Oshawa, Ont. Canada
irv Offline OP
irv  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,921
Oshawa, Ont. Canada
Originally Posted by SatinSilver
Originally Posted by irv
I will try what you suggest just the same to eliminate that possibility but I also don't think that is the problem?


irv,

The previous owner(s) could have used a heavy set of keys while operating the car thus weakening the ignition cylinder. Esp if that part is prone to issues. Good luck and hope you get it sorted for your son. It seems like he just got that car not long ago. thumbsup


No luck, SS. The key is pretty solid in there and there was no signs of a stumble or stall when I moved the key around a bunch of times up and down and back and forth a bit.
Suppose to rain tomorrow so we'll see what happens?


2017 Chevy Impala 3.6 L.
2013 Ram 5.7 L Hemi Bighorn QC 4x4
2008 Chevy Malibu 2.4 L Ecotec
Pennzoil Platinum and/or Pennzoil Ultra Platinum in all 3.
Re: 2008 Chev Malibu 2.4 stumbling/stalling [Re: irv] #5132602
06/12/19 07:44 PM
06/12/19 07:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,245
Fort Worth, Texas
clinebarger Offline
clinebarger  Offline

Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,245
Fort Worth, Texas
Originally Posted by irv
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Ignition Switches are a known failure point on these cars.

*With the car idling in park.....Put pressure on the key Up & Down (Vertically) & see if the engine stalls, Do not rotate the key in the cylinder. This doesn't alway cull a bad ignition switch, But worth a try.

*The second way is too remove the Knee Bolster & remove the Ignition Switch & Key Cylinder assembly from the Dash Carrier.....Let it hang down & wiggle the electrical connector with the engine running.

*In a perfect world......I would recommend a "Graphing Multimeter with logging capability" so you can record/log any power drop-outs on the ignition switch output circuits.
You could simply use a Test Light or Multimeter......But the drop-out could be for fractions of a second & it can be dangerous trying to pay attention to test equipment while driving.

You could always just throw a new switch at it, I hate doing that myself.


My wife was able to do some digging at work yesterday (works in GM office) and was informed the 08 Malibu's were not part of the ignition switch recall/update. I will try what you suggest just the same to eliminate that possibility but I also don't think that is the problem?

Of course my son's car ran perfect this morning with no signs of a stumble or a stall. The real test will be after another rain or wash. Fingers crossed here that what I did yesterday helped/stopped the condition but I am not holding my breath.

Thanks for the info. cheers


I missed the misfire part of the symptoms.

GM Ignition Switch failures go way deeper than the recall, The recall centered around the the switch being turned to accessory unintentionally, The failure mode I'm talking about is centered around Worn, Dirty, & Burnt Contacts in the switch that can cause intermittent opens in the Ignition 1 circuit.


2001 Chevy Camaro L92/4L80E
2006 Chevy 2500HD LBZ/Allison 1000
2010 Toyota Corolla 2ZR-FE/U341E
2000 Toyota Avalon 1MZ-FE/A541E
Re: 2008 Chev Malibu 2.4 stumbling/stalling [Re: clinebarger] #5133147
06/13/19 12:16 PM
06/13/19 12:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,921
Oshawa, Ont. Canada
irv Offline OP
irv  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,921
Oshawa, Ont. Canada
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by irv
Originally Posted by clinebarger
Ignition Switches are a known failure point on these cars.

*With the car idling in park.....Put pressure on the key Up & Down (Vertically) & see if the engine stalls, Do not rotate the key in the cylinder. This doesn't alway cull a bad ignition switch, But worth a try.

*The second way is too remove the Knee Bolster & remove the Ignition Switch & Key Cylinder assembly from the Dash Carrier.....Let it hang down & wiggle the electrical connector with the engine running.

*In a perfect world......I would recommend a "Graphing Multimeter with logging capability" so you can record/log any power drop-outs on the ignition switch output circuits.
You could simply use a Test Light or Multimeter......But the drop-out could be for fractions of a second & it can be dangerous trying to pay attention to test equipment while driving.

You could always just throw a new switch at it, I hate doing that myself.


My wife was able to do some digging at work yesterday (works in GM office) and was informed the 08 Malibu's were not part of the ignition switch recall/update. I will try what you suggest just the same to eliminate that possibility but I also don't think that is the problem?

Of course my son's car ran perfect this morning with no signs of a stumble or a stall. The real test will be after another rain or wash. Fingers crossed here that what I did yesterday helped/stopped the condition but I am not holding my breath.

Thanks for the info. cheers


I missed the misfire part of the symptoms.

GM Ignition Switch failures go way deeper than the recall, The recall centered around the the switch being turned to accessory unintentionally, The failure mode I'm talking about is centered around Worn, Dirty, & Burnt Contacts in the switch that can cause intermittent opens in the Ignition 1 circuit.


I just took it for a 15 minute test drive in the rain. No stumble or hints of stalling at all. My son is getting his wisdom teeth out at 3:10 (poor kid!) so I will take the car with when I drive him to his appointment.

I honestly don't think this is an ignition problem but rather a wire/moisture problem? The drive today is inconclusive as it doesn't always do it so I won't be a 100% comfortable until it doesn't happen for a week and that is only if we get more rain or after a few washes.

What a pain in the butt!

crzy


2017 Chevy Impala 3.6 L.
2013 Ram 5.7 L Hemi Bighorn QC 4x4
2008 Chevy Malibu 2.4 L Ecotec
Pennzoil Platinum and/or Pennzoil Ultra Platinum in all 3.
Re: 2008 Chev Malibu 2.4 stumbling/stalling [Re: irv] #5133922
06/14/19 09:21 AM
06/14/19 09:21 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,921
Oshawa, Ont. Canada
irv Offline OP
irv  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,921
Oshawa, Ont. Canada
mad Just got back from a test drive and sure enough, it happened again!

It is windy this morning but the sun is out and it is somewhat warm. I am unsure when the rain ended last night but I knew this would be a good test for it. It started and ran great for the first 5-10 minutes then the stumble happened. It never stalled but was very close to.

Once the stumbling stops, it tunes right up and runs great just like any car would so, imo, it is a moisture problem.

It has been suggested to me a few times now that it might be the crank sensor so I may as well replace it and keep my fingers crossed. I don't want to start throwing parts at it but this will give me an opportunity to clean all the wires/cables that go to the starter and whatever else I can find under there.

During some reading on a Malibu site, some have replaced the fuse block/box under the hood. My son's looks to be in great shape when I remove the cover but that doesn't let me see underneath it.
Any idea if there is much to removing it and what is underneath?

Waler's Malibu 08.jpg

2017 Chevy Impala 3.6 L.
2013 Ram 5.7 L Hemi Bighorn QC 4x4
2008 Chevy Malibu 2.4 L Ecotec
Pennzoil Platinum and/or Pennzoil Ultra Platinum in all 3.
Re: 2008 Chev Malibu 2.4 stumbling/stalling [Re: irv] #5134018
06/14/19 12:17 PM
06/14/19 12:17 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,086
Brittany / Canada
Popsy Online content
Popsy  Online Content

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 1,086
Brittany / Canada
Another thing that happened to me on a Renault engine with coils on plug, symptoms were similar, stumbling with occasionally dashboard shortly illuminating like a Christmas tree.
We searched for a while, turned out one of the coil was sometimes shorting and "sending back" (does it make sense ?) the wannabe spark into the main harness, creating havoc with ECM.

Can you have access to a scanner with logging capabilities ? Could give you an idea of what's happening when it stumbles.


96 Barchetta, 300V 5W40 | Forfour 95, SHU 0W40
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Re: 2008 Chev Malibu 2.4 stumbling/stalling [Re: Popsy] #5134678
06/15/19 07:41 AM
06/15/19 07:41 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,921
Oshawa, Ont. Canada
irv Offline OP
irv  Offline OP

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,921
Oshawa, Ont. Canada
Originally Posted by Popsy
Another thing that happened to me on a Renault engine with coils on plug, symptoms were similar, stumbling with occasionally dashboard shortly illuminating like a Christmas tree.
We searched for a while, turned out one of the coil was sometimes shorting and "sending back" (does it make sense ?) the wannabe spark into the main harness, creating havoc with ECM.

Can you have access to a scanner with logging capabilities ? Could give you an idea of what's happening when it stumbles.



I removed the black plastic engine cover yesterday but could not get the car to run without it. I was hoping to spray the coils with a mist of water but because of the MAF, likely, and another hose that attaches to the cover, the engine would not run.

I removed all 4 coil plug connectors to inspect them then applied some dielectric grease to all of them. Looked around further for something obvious, taped some wires here and there, etc, and that was about it. Like I previously mentioned, it was bone dry under that black cover so there is no way they are getting wet.

Would it be normal, if it was a coil, for the car to start up and run fine for 5 to 10 minutes then all of a sudden start acting up? Not to put thoughts into anyone's head, but my gut tells me if it was a bad/damp coil, it would struggle to start and struggle to keep running initially, not after? shrug

Edit: I have no access to a scanner with logging capabilities.

Last edited by irv; 06/15/19 07:42 AM.

2017 Chevy Impala 3.6 L.
2013 Ram 5.7 L Hemi Bighorn QC 4x4
2008 Chevy Malibu 2.4 L Ecotec
Pennzoil Platinum and/or Pennzoil Ultra Platinum in all 3.
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