14 CTS VSport Aisin Trans - MaxLife Inconclusive Test

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by LotI
Originally Posted by dave1251


Learn most fluids are DEXRON clones then preach please. You must only use OEM oil, gear fluid, and filters. I bet you also use OEM recommendation gas also.

Yes, I do. Top tier with less than 15% ethanol. Everything else is covered under Magnusson Moss.



So is using Maxlife ATF in your transmission.


I don't see how? What compels oil companies to license/certify ATF's?

 

[talest]

Originally Posted by clinebarger
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by LotI
Originally Posted by dave1251


Learn most fluids are DEXRON clones then preach please. You must only use OEM oil, gear fluid, and filters. I bet you also use OEM recommendation gas also.

Yes, I do. Top tier with less than 15% ethanol. Everything else is covered under Magnusson Moss.



So is using Maxlife ATF in your transmission.


I don't see how? What compels oil companies to license/certify ATF's?


Money.

 

[zorobabel]

Originally Posted by Bulletbling
In addition, when putting down moderate acceleration mid-corner, sometimes the trans feels like it's slipping and as I exit the corner with moderate throttle, the rear end bangs / lurches the car forward aggressively

This sounds like an underfilled transmission to me.

 

[AC1DD]

Valvoline MaxLife...Jack of all trades...master of NONE!

 

[maxdustington]

Originally Posted by AC1DD
Valvoline MaxLife...Jack of all trades...master of NONE!

Master of more transmissions on this board that any other ATF by a long shot.

 

[Mainia]

I HATE WS, a horrid ATF if you don't have an external oil cooler IE Rav 4 (it shows it's group2/3isum). I myself only use Redline D6 and Amsoil SS in ATF. If I were to choose a problematic trans like yours I would pick Amsoil SS.

 

[RyanY]

Originally Posted by Mainia
I HATE WS, a horrid ATF if you don't have an external oil cooler IE Rav 4 (it shows it's group2/3isum). I myself only use Redline D6 and Amsoil SS in ATF. If I were to choose a problematic trans like yours I would pick Amsoil SS.


Amsoil and Redline are certainly great stuff, as is maxlife. It is surprising that maxlife is not performing well in the OP's trans. Or the fluid is low. Regardless, it would be worth discussing this particular application with Redline, Amsoil, and Valvoline reps before doing anything. Except checking fluid level, which should be at the top of the to-do list.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Great... now we're going to have bogus RJOD claims by people that can't read or use common sense. I agree, if you changed the fluid and immediately started having shift issues, you likely don't have the fill level correct. Also, did you pull the battery terminals to clear the shift logic or force clear the shift logic with a scanner? I don't know this Aisin so I will defer to somebody like clinebarger, but I know on my Ford and Subarus any time I did several D&Fs to replace a majority of the fluid, the trans did not feel right until I forced the TCM to clear itself and relearn the shift logic with the new, clean fluid. Ford had Amsoil ATL and all my Subarus (except the Forester with an MT) have and are using VML ATF without issue, so it's not confined to just MaxLife.

MaxLife clearly states it is a Dexron/Mercon type fluid, and if yours calls for a WS you should probably use something for that. But MaxLife is not a bad fluid for its intended uses.

 

[JustN89]

Maxlife has the correct viscosity for WS fluid, so I'm going to side with clinebarger and others here- the most likely culprit is that your fluid level is wrong. Did you service this yourself or did you take it somewhere?

 

[Rand]

I just cant do it either, a transmission fluid that meets 30 specs...

Now if I had an old beater that needed Mercon or Dex III... maybe.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Originally Posted by JustN89
Maxlife has the correct viscosity for WS fluid, so I'm going to side with clinebarger and others here- the most likely culprit is that your fluid level is wrong. Did you service this yourself or did you take it somewhere?


Correct viscosity does not mean it has the correct friction modifiers. Like others pointed out, Mola has some threads and papers on the site describing some of the differences, and that fluids like ATF+4 cannot be substituted on viscosity alone because the fluid itself will not perform what the trans needs it to. I'd imagine WS is the same way.

But yes, OP needs to verify level as well, and also reset the shift logic.

 

[JustN89]

Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by JustN89
Maxlife has the correct viscosity for WS fluid, so I'm going to side with clinebarger and others here- the most likely culprit is that your fluid level is wrong. Did you service this yourself or did you take it somewhere?


Correct viscosity does not mean it has the correct friction modifiers. Like others pointed out, Mola has some threads and papers on the site describing some of the differences, and that fluids like ATF+4 cannot be substituted on viscosity alone because the fluid itself will not perform what the trans needs it to. I'd imagine WS is the same way.

But yes, OP needs to verify level as well, and also reset the shift logic.

That's true, and there could be modifiers that don't show up on VOAs and UOAs, however from what does appear on an oil analysis, the fluids have similar additive packages as well. My point is that from all information available, the fluid is most likely not the problem- the level is. Especially when you consider the anecdotal evidence of others on here successfully running this fluid in WS applications.

 

[DoubleNickels]

I used to believe that you should always use OEM spec fluid. I didn't believe that any multi-vehicle ATF could truly be a miracle fluid which could work in every car. Logic being that if that were the case, then every car could be filled with this magic juju and all of the other fluid would not be needed.

Over time, I accepted that some vehicles could operate with certain multi-vehicle ATF. I heard about good results with some brands. Now you get the other side of the story.

Certainly info worth noting.

 

[Gebo]

Originally Posted by Mr Nice
ZERO % possibility I would use Maxlife in that transmission. Spend the money and use the *correct* ATF.

I hate ATF that are OK to use in 27 different makes and models transmissions.



Here, here, +1

Slight modification. I don't hate Maxlife. I just wouldn't use Maxlife in any transmission. I've switched out all my AT's to Toyota Dexron, T-IV, WS and Mazda M-V.

What really makes me chuckle is Maxlife is supposed to be acceptable in an Aisin transmission that specifies T-IV and and different Aisin ransmission that specifies WS. Two entirely different fluids. LOL

Even Amsoil has 2 different transmission fluids. They say one will work for T-IV the the other for WS.


And I would check the level following the proper procedure. This may not be a fluid issue.

Check out the John Kelly Weber State YouTubes on ATF's. He's got 4 of them where he discusses the history of ATF's of Ford, GM, Chrysler and Toyota. Extremely well done and very thorough.

 

[nthach]

A Toyota engineer speaking at a JASO conference says while OEM ATF is best, "superior type" ATF meeting the JASO M315-1A standard is acceptable for use. The Japanese have based their standards on the Dexron standards but there are additional tests for other chemical properties as well as friction durablity.

While I still use OEM WS and T-IV ATF, the cars I've used MaxLife or Castrol IMV on shifted just fine. My parent's Sienna felt fine on MaxLife, but there was a little shift "flutter" as the fluid aged. I switched it back to T-IV. For a Toyota-based hybrid, WS is my recommendation.

I think the add pack makers as well as the oil suppliers have tested "universal" ATFs in rental car/taxi fleets but those are all common cars like Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai and the Detroit 3. I'd still use OE-spec fluid for German units.

 

[Bulletbling]

What's weird is I actually called Valvoline and they said that their fluid was compatible with the WS spec for Cadillac. I think by compatible, they meant that the trans would not fail. Lol.

Anyways, everybody on the Cadillac forum loves this transmission, and in my opinion, it's the best transmission GM has ever used. I've never had an issue with it and it's smooth or punchy whenever you want it to be, depending on the drive mode. It's incredibly reliable as well. Some people have put a thousand horsepower through this transmission with no issues long term. For the VSport edition, which I have of the CTS, it's exclusive to this car for the CTS line. There are a couple other cars that use it, but no complaints for this particular car of this transmission with it's setup of the Aisin trans and e-diff combo.

I'm going to go back to the WS type fluid and report back in a couple weeks. I used the max life fluid because it was supposedly compatible, and it seems like a lot of people on this form love the fluid, including myself. However, after this experience, I am always going to go with the manufacturer fluid, especially on a $75k car.

Originally Posted by MolaKule
Originally Posted by Bulletbling
Hey all,

I just had my 2014 Cadillac CTS VSport with the Aisin 8-speed serviced with MaxLife ATF and now the transmission is acting funny. Only 44k miles on the car and the transmission calls for GM WS-type fluid. I read on this very forum that WS fluid can be replaced with ATF such as MaxLife (what I usually use), Redline D6, and Amsoil Signature.

I chose the MaxLife route and now the car has a shudder / slight bucking forward and back feeling after some gear shifts have completed and lasts about a second in duration....


Was there a complete fluid exchange or simply a drain and fill with a filter change?

The transmission was completely flushed, with 15 quarts used in total.

 

[Bulletbling]

Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by JustN89
Maxlife has the correct viscosity for WS fluid, so I'm going to side with clinebarger and others here- the most likely culprit is that your fluid level is wrong. Did you service this yourself or did you take it somewhere?


Correct viscosity does not mean it has the correct friction modifiers. Like others pointed out, Mola has some threads and papers on the site describing some of the differences, and that fluids like ATF+4 cannot be substituted on viscosity alone because the fluid itself will not perform what the trans needs it to. I'd imagine WS is the same way.

But yes, OP needs to verify level as well, and also reset the shift logic.

Shift logic was reset by myself.

-----

Would it be recommended to take it easy on this transmission with the MaxLife fluid in it until it gets changed? Or can I drive it hard like I usually do? I'm not super knowledgeable on transmissions, and I don't know if some shutter and rare banging is going to harm anything. It is a pretty stout transmission though, so I'm not super concerned.

 

[RyanY]

Originally Posted by Bulletbling

The transmission was completely flushed, with 15 quarts used in total.

If the flush was done with a flush/exchange machine the level should be close, assuming it was correct before. However it is still a good idea to verify the fluid level per the correct procedure.

For example, I had my ATF exchanged a few years ago when i didn't have the space to DIY. I discovered later that the level was about a half qt low, and had weird shifts when the car was cold. A half qt of maxlife fixed it. I assume the level was also low before the flush, but I had not checked it.

 

[Bulletbling]

Originally Posted by RyanY
Originally Posted by Bulletbling

The transmission was completely flushed, with 15 quarts used in total.

If the flush was done with a flush/exchange machine the level should be close, assuming it was correct before. However it is still a good idea to verify the fluid level per the correct procedure.

For example, I had my ATF exchanged a few years ago when i didn't have the space to DIY. I discovered later that the level was about a half qt low, and had weird shifts when the car was cold. A half qt of maxlife fixed it. I assume the level was also low before the flush, but I had not checked it.

I will definitely have my shop have them look at the fluid level next time I'm in, in a couple weeks (taking a vacation starting tomorrow). It seems plausible that this is the case, but this shop hasn't done this to me before. We will see!

 

[DoubleNickels]

One factor which some people don't consider is that the transmission itself is already worn and that the new fluid had nothing to do with the transmission fault.