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Re: PQIA most recent tests (5-1-2019)...no Noack results [Re: wemay] #5126984
06/06/19 12:43 PM
06/06/19 12:43 PM
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...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline

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...
Wasn’t there a bit of discussion not too long ago about how Noack values were getting harder to estimate? Some of the large oil companies stopped publishing their estimates.


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Re: PQIA most recent tests (5-1-2019)...no Noack results [Re: PimTac] #5127019
06/06/19 01:18 PM
06/06/19 01:18 PM
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Posts: 292
Mid-Tenn
77GrandPrix Offline
77GrandPrix  Offline

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 292
Mid-Tenn
Originally Posted by PimTac
Wasn’t there a bit of discussion not too long ago about how Noack values were getting harder to estimate? Some of the large oil companies stopped publishing their estimates.

You are correct. I believe that the discussion was about repeatability and reliability of the current test method.

Re: PQIA most recent tests (5-1-2019)...no Noack results [Re: PimTac] #5127087
06/06/19 02:27 PM
06/06/19 02:27 PM
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WA
OilUzer Offline
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WA
Originally Posted by PimTac
Wasn’t there a bit of discussion not too long ago about how Noack values were getting harder to estimate? Some of the large oil companies stopped publishing their estimates.


Maybe keeping the sample at exactly 250°F and the "constant air flow" (kind of vague) is where it can cause some variations. also how big is the sample and what size & material container, where you measure the temp, test chamber environment and many other variables ...

Unless the test is fully defined and universal, the one line test from Wikipedia won't do it:
"In this test, a sample is heated at 250 °C for 60 minutes with a constant flow of air over it. The weight fraction lost is the result for the Noack volatility test."

It will be interesting to know the variation in test results with different interpretation and execution of the noack test when not fully defined.

Re: PQIA most recent tests (5-1-2019)...no Noack results [Re: OilUzer] #5127160
06/06/19 03:41 PM
06/06/19 03:41 PM
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Western S.C.
CR94 Offline
CR94  Offline

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Western S.C.
Originally Posted by OilUzer
... It will be interesting to know the variation in test results with different interpretation and execution of the noack test when not fully defined.
Do you have knowledge that it's not clearly defined, or are you speculating that it might not be? There's not much point having such a test unless every relevant variable is clearly defined and described. I don't need to know all the details, but any lab performing the test certainly should.


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Re: PQIA most recent tests (5-1-2019)...no Noack results [Re: 77GrandPrix] #5127198
06/06/19 04:27 PM
06/06/19 04:27 PM
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PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline

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Originally Posted by 77GrandPrix
Originally Posted by PimTac
Wasn’t there a bit of discussion not too long ago about how Noack values were getting harder to estimate? Some of the large oil companies stopped publishing their estimates.

You are correct. I believe that the discussion was about repeatability and reliability of the current test method.





I think this is it right here.


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Re: PQIA most recent tests (5-1-2019)...no Noack results [Re: CR94] #5127502
06/07/19 12:00 AM
06/07/19 12:00 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
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WA
OilUzer Offline
OilUzer  Offline

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WA
Originally Posted by CR94
Originally Posted by OilUzer
... It will be interesting to know the variation in test results with different interpretation and execution of the noack test when not fully defined.
Do you have knowledge that it's not clearly defined, or are you speculating that it might not be? There's not much point having such a test unless every relevant variable is clearly defined and described. I don't need to know all the details, but any lab performing the test certainly should.


Based on what couple of posters have posted above such as "harder to estimate", and questioning "repeatability and reliability of the current test method" ... I said if the test and the test environment is not very specific and/or not fully defined, there will be some variation in the test result and companies can conduct the test differently.

i may look for the recent "discussion" about noack values being hard to estimate ... Curious to know how specific the test is.

Is the noack test defined/specified in api? I think the numbers are defined somewhere like less than %15, %12, etc. How about the test itself?

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