Toyota WS replacement

When I had my Toyota that called for T-IV, I looked into my options for replacement, and learned something about the WS spec in the process. The two are not interchangeable, though an early version of a given transmission may have used T-IV, and a later version, WS, there is speculation that different clutch materials are used.

I learned XOM manufactures the bulk of T-IV, and WS, at least for North America, if not most of the world as well. They are also known by two other spec codes. T-IV = JWS3309, and WS=JWS3324. I've had a few fluid changes on the Toyota where it was similar to dealer cost, but definitely more convenient to grab XOM branded JWS3309 from a nearby store. Don't think I've ever seen JWS3324 in the wild, either.

These fluids may not be synthetic, or by any means particularly spectacular, but I have never heard of them being problematic in any application (unlike say Honda Z1 ATF). Sure, other fluids might work, they might have better specs, and might be synthetic. Cost of the OEM stuff isn't particularly high (unlike say some ATFs for ZF trannies). So am I actually achieving anything by straying from spec? I didn't think so, so there was no incentive to switch for me.

Where you might find other sources of WS and T-IV, are from the dealers of other makes (though my experience is Toyota seemed to be the best price), that use Aisin transmissions. (Hmm, didn't we see someone talk about Aisin ATF? I wouldn't hesitate to use it, considering they made the transmissions).

Automakers that have used Aisin trannies are quite extensive, and probably almost all automakers have had them in their vehicles at some point or other.
 
Originally Posted by CR94
That doesn't seem likely, considering WS also turns black in new Prius transmissions, which contain no clutches, brakes, synchronizers, or any other sort of friction material. I've read, but forget, the chemical explanation why. Reportedly, if the WS is replaced, the new fill doesn't get as dark as quickly. I changed mine once, using genuine WS, but haven't looked since then.

The original formulation of Toyota WS gets dark when it's exposed to moisture. The newer XOM formulation seems to be more stable opon exposure to the environment.
 
Could the darkening be from some sort of moisture indicator in the fluid? Or is it just because the dye does not last long and the fluid almost always comes out looking like used motor oil? Even my Volkswagen when I drain fluid out of it is like that. You can only easily see the red if you hold a small sample up toward the sun and look. The only thing that red dye is really good for is leaving stains that are impossible to remove.
 
Red has always been the dye of choice for ATF - but Mazda has been using blue for the SkyActiv boxes and the Germans(ZF, Voith, Mercedes) are using greenish-yellow to green for ATF.

The dye isn't moisture sensitive. I suspect a hygroscopic element of the fluid like a friction modifier or other additive.
 
Does anyone knows how the procedure to change the transmission on 2018 Toyota Camry? Its not a simple drain and refill.
 
Originally Posted by painfx
Does anyone knows how the procedure to change the transmission on 2018 Toyota Camry? Its not a simple drain and refill.

I'd start a new thread on it. Toyotanation probably has a thread on it already. I can take a guess at how it likely is done, based on other Toyota "sealed" transmission but who knows, maybe it changed in the newer models.
 
What's wrong with Toyota WS?

I have to laugh whenever I see people bash Toyota WS fluid for no specific reason. It can't be that bad of a fluid because, after all, if you go guy a 100K Lexus, guess what transmission fluid it runs?

It isn't Redline D6, Amsoil, or MaxLife...it's Toyota WS

Ed
 
Originally Posted by Ed_Flecko
What's wrong with Toyota WS?

I have to laugh whenever I see people bash Toyota WS fluid for no specific reason. It can't be that bad of a fluid because, after all, if you go guy a 100K Lexus, guess what transmission fluid it runs?

It isn't Redline D6, Amsoil, or MaxLife...it's Toyota WS

Ed

IMHO the tendency for earlier WS ATF to turn dark fast gave it a bad reputation. Plenty of junked Toyotas from bad engines, rust or collision with around 200K and the original factory fill of WS.

My low mileage 2010 Camry just got an ATF drain and new filter at 46K, I didn't think twice, just used WS.

Could it be better if synthetic? Sure. Should it be refreshed for longest transmission life? Sure.
 
+1
It's the fluid that was designed specifically for our transmissions.
 
It is interesting that the new ATF for the new Ford 10 speed transmission is a non-synthetic. I think it's the ULV. At least according to a YouTube video I watched LOL
 
Originally Posted by Ed_Flecko
What's wrong with Toyota WS?

...

Higher cost for a non-synthetic (or partially synthetic) fluid.

Originally Posted by HangFire

IMHO the tendency for earlier WS ATF to turn dark fast gave it a bad reputation. Plenty of junked Toyotas from bad engines, rust or collision with around 200K and the original factory fill of WS.

My low mileage 2010 Camry just got an ATF drain and new filter at 46K, I didn't think twice, just used WS.

Could it be better if synthetic? Sure. Should it be refreshed for longest transmission life? Sure.

Nothing wrong with using WS, and changing it early only does good.
Will it make a difference in longevity if using WS vs a synthetic at that early change, probably not.

For me, all my vehicles can use Maxlife ATF, so I only have to keep 1 fluid around for all of them, and it is one that is relatively cheap and easily available.
Much easier to go to Walmart and buy an $18/gallon jug or two of Maxlife ATF than buying $18/qt Hyundai SP-IV, $5/qt Mercon V, $8/qt WS, and $5/qt Dex VI.
 
I think it all boils down to any one individual's personal opinion; do you believe that the Manufacturer (and their engineers) have a specific reason(s) for recommending a specific fluid,

I'm of the belief that they do and it isn't solely for the purpose of profits, so I always use the factory recommended fluids (i.e., transmission, coolant, etc.) I'm confident that the recommended fluids will likely never cause a problem and I don't think you can say the same thing about "compatible" fluids. I'm not willing to take the risk to save a few dollars.

Ed
 
Just did a total flush with Aisin AFW+ full synthetic WS ATF compatible oil. Initial feel is the transmission is far smoother than ever before especially in traffic where frequent shifts would start making the WS ATF tired.
 
I've come to the conclusion Toyota WS, Aisin Warner AW-1 and JWS 3324 are all the same specification.

I've bought a universal ATF for my Volvo which has an Aisin Wanrer TF71-SC. Comma MVATF Plus which apparently meets JWS 3324, Toyota WS and AW-1 but I'm unsure if you can get it in the US.
 
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Originally Posted by Ed_Flecko
I think it all boils down to any one individual's personal opinion; do you believe that the Manufacturer (and their engineers) have a specific reason(s) for recommending a specific fluid,

I'm of the belief that they do and it isn't solely for the purpose of profits, so I always use the factory recommended fluids (i.e., transmission, coolant, etc.) I'm confident that the recommended fluids will likely never cause a problem and I don't think you can say the same thing about "compatible" fluids. I'm not willing to take the risk to save a few dollars.

Ed


I will counter that with, if the manufacturer of the transmission is Aisin wouldn't the fluid they sell for their transmission be a factory fluid?
 
Originally Posted by Bailes1992
I've come to the conclusion Toyota WS, Aisin Warner AW-1 and JWS 3324 are all the same specification.

I've bought a universal ATF for my Volvo which has an Aisin Wanrer TF71-SC. Comma MVATF Plus which apparently meets JWS 3324, Toyota WS and AW-1 but I'm unsure if you can get it in the US.



It would have the license number JWS 3324 on the bottle if it met that spec, right?
 
I found this today and I was intrigued:


PENNZOIL PLATINUMâ„¢ LV MULTI-VEHICLE ATF-

Applications
General Motors DEXRON®VI, Ford MERCON LV, Toyota WS,
Nissan Matic S, Hyundai/Kia SP-IV/SP-IVM are among these
applications.
 
Originally Posted by InhalingBullets
I found this today and I was intrigued:


PENNZOIL PLATINUMâ„¢ LV MULTI-VEHICLE ATF-

Applications
General Motors DEXRON®VI, Ford MERCON LV, Toyota WS,
Nissan Matic S, Hyundai/Kia SP-IV/SP-IVM are among these
applications.
Looks fine. Otoh, what would make it better than say MaxLife MV which also lists those applications on it's suitable for listing? ML is full synthetic with LV (5.9 cSt) 100° Kinematic viscosity.

https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publ...bd3/3fa3136a-09bd-e711-9c12-ac162d889bd1
 
Originally Posted by Sayjac
Originally Posted by InhalingBullets
I found this today and I was intrigued:


PENNZOIL PLATINUMâ„¢ LV MULTI-VEHICLE ATF-
...
Looks fine. Otoh, what would make it better than say MaxLife MV which also lists those applications on it's suitable for listing? ML is full synthetic with LV (5.9 cSt) 100° Kinematic viscosity.


I agree, there are quite a few options out for WS.
Which one is "better" is a debatable point.
I think Maxlife ATF is used/recommended/talked about more here because it is readily available and tends to be one of the lowest priced options out.
Plus a lot of positive experiences from most (yes, there are a few with negative experiences).

I just used some Havoline Multi-Vehicle Synthetic ATF today in the xB (a WS spec transmission).
The Havoline is Dex-VI licensed, and recommended for Honda DW-1, Hyundai/Kia SP-IV, Nissan Matic S and Toyota WS (plus a bunch of others on the PDS.
[Linked Image]


I was going to use some Maxlife ATF that I have, but forgot I had 4 qts of the Havoline left over from when I bought a case of 12 for my mom's '07 Vue.
Just happened that I needed 4 qts for a refill, how convenient.
 
Originally Posted by exranger06
Originally Posted by Gebo
The only two ATF's that are specifically labeled specifically "WS" are Toyota and Aisin. NOTE...that I am aware of.
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And since Toyota does NOT license their ATF's I'm betting the Aisin WS is the same as Toyota WS.

Now you're aware of another:
https://www.eneos.us/product/model-t-w/
This is what I bought for my Sienna. I haven't had a chance to change the fluid yet though. It's not a multi-vehicle fluid; Eneos specifically says it's for WS applications and they don't list any other applications it can be used in or other specs that it meets. It's not an officially licensed fluid, but I figure that since Eneos designed the fluid specifically for WS applications and nothing else, it should work perfectly fine.

[Linked Image]



Like I posted, I know with no other fluid this labeled WS or T-IV. This fluid is label TW.
grin.gif
I wonder if this is the same as the Aisin 0ws. The bottle looks the same. Toyota WS comes in a Mobil bottle and is made by Mobil.
 
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