Gel-like deposit at the bottom of the oil container?

[berlyn]

Hello all,

the oil was in a sealed container, something drove me to look into the bottom of the bottle, after noticing some kind of gel-like substance in the funnel, while the last drops were coming out of the bottle.
I always shake the containers before using the oils, so some bubbles were present while pouring, I could not see the gel from the very beginning clearly.
The oil is ~10-12 years old, kept in my basement, constant temps ~70F and no humidity at all.
I turned upside down the containers, but the depicted remaining on the bottom wouldn't get out, so no better picture available than the one posted below.
Thoughts?? Feedback greatly appreciated.

 

[jbutch]

Wax/parrafin?

What oil is it?

 

[MotoGuzzi]

Looks like some of the additive pack has settled out . You are correct on shaking the contained before use but in this case not enough. I believe that quality oil has good shelf life but 10-12 years might be stretching the limits. I would dump the oil and replace with fresh.

 

[PimTac]

It would be good to know the brand of oil.

Any chance of using something long to get a sample of that out of the jug?

 

[Rand]

looks like additive fall out and paraffin wax.

probably not a syn. oil?

The oil is already in the engine.. I'd either change it out (preferred) or at least get it up to full 100C temp soon.

 

[berlyn]

Hello all,

Oil is Maxima 15w-50 extra motorcycle oil (@ Mods, if this thread is not correctly located at the PCMO sector please move it).
Marketed as fully synth.

 

[pbm]

I've had the exact same thing happen often with older oil and even with not such older oil (like SM rated NAPA syn).

What I have done is cut the container with a razor (so that I have about 2" of open container) pour in an ounce or 2 of the same oil and stir that gel up (using the oil as a 'host') and pour it into my engine....I've never had a problem and have had good UOAs doing this.
I also do this when darker stuff (I presume it is moly) settles out of the oil and shaking doesn't do the trick.

I have found the settled gel in many brands... Havoline dino being one... and since it has a black container which makes it hard to see ...I started cutting all my containers to check for settled additives.

I would stir that up with a little oil...add it to your engine and not lose any sleep....

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by pbm
I've had the exact same thing happen often with older oil and even with not such older oil (like SM rated NAPA syn).

What I have done is cut the container with a razor (so that I have about 2" of open container) pour in an ounce or 2 of the same oil and stir that gel up (using the oil as a 'host') and pour it into my engine....I've never had a problem and have had good UOAs doing this.
I also do this when darker stuff (I presume it is moly) settles out of the oil and shaking doesn't do the trick.

I have found the settled gel in many brands... Havoline dino being one... and since it has a black container which makes it hard to see ...I started cutting all my containers to check for settled additives.

I would stir that up with a little oil...add it to your engine and not lose any sleep....
That's a good idea. I recall doing that years ago with some old oil I used in OPE. For some strange reason I forgot about it. Thanks for reminding me! Black bottles make it nearly impossible to see unless you cut it as you mentioned.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Originally Posted by berlyn
Hello all,

Oil is Maxima 15w-50 extra motorcycle oil (@ Mods, if this thread is not correctly located at the PCMO sector please move it).
Marketed as fully synth.


Kinda' plain-as-day on why their are manufacturer shelf-life limits on motor oil.
Use your oil, in a reasonable amount of time. Then no gel to talk about here.

 

[pbm]

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by berlyn
Hello all,

Oil is Maxima 15w-50 extra motorcycle oil (@ Mods, if this thread is not correctly located at the PCMO sector please move it).
Marketed as fully synth.


Kinda' plain-as-day on why their are manufacturer shelf-life limits on motor oil.
Use your oil, in a reasonable amount of time. Then no gel to talk about here.



I've seen 'additive settlement' in oil that was recently purchased so I don't think the issue is exclusive to older oil......that's why I started stirring up the bottom of virtually every container I use...

 

[Pelican]

Originally Posted by berlyn
Hello all, Oil is Maxima 15w-50 extra motorcycle oil (@ Mods, if this thread is not correctly located at the PCMO sector please move it).
Marketed as fully synth.


That's why manufacturers tell you to change the oil after 12 months even if hardly driven.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted by pbm
I've seen 'additive settlement' in oil that was recently purchased so I don't think the issue is exclusive to older oil......that's why I started stirring up the bottom of virtually every container I use...


Same here.

I remember Amoco LDO motor oil in the 80's (API SF, CC/CD) was in a white plastic bottle, and the "sediment" was black.
I always thought it was dirt....... it was probably molybdenum.

 

[Eddie]

Warm container with some oil in it and shake more vigorously. Ed

 

[Bonz]

That oil is 10 to 12 years old from a sealed container, not 12 months. IMO, nothing in that oil will be poor for an engine when shaken or stirred back into the mix as has been shared already. Even riding a bike sparingly over 12 months and getting it up to operating temperature and keeping it there every so often will not be an issue with any of today's oil's.

I have seen more than a few UOA's posted on this site where the oil was over two years old and the analysis came back as if the same number of miles were put on it in a shorter period of time such as over a riding season. After all, this site is about the empirical data and not words printed in a book. The additives do their job and neutralize by-products of combustion or carry them away to the filter on the last ride it was on. IMO, you're not going to get buildup with the oil sitting there partway through an oil change interval. It's when oil is already in need of change and it sits there for an extended period that anything approaching gloom and doom will occur.

Some years, my motorcycle sits two or three weeks at a time, sometimes a month over the winter, maybe ridden 300 to 400 miles over a six-month span max. Before that the oil had a couple thousand miles on it going into the winter, and I will run it around 3000 more miles for a total of 5000 miles. Analysis comes back the same in those conditions as if I had a full interval during a riding season.

For sure we want what's best for our engines, however I think they are a whole lot tougher than our hearts and minds want to believe. Again it's about the empirical evidence around here, right?

 

[pbm]

Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by pbm
I've seen 'additive settlement' in oil that was recently purchased so I don't think the issue is exclusive to older oil......that's why I started stirring up the bottom of virtually every container I use...


Same here.

I remember Amoco LDO motor oil in the 80's (API SF, CC/CD) was in a white plastic bottle, and the "sediment" was black.
I always thought it was dirt....... it was probably molybdenum.



I still have a few quarts of Amoco Ultimate 10w30 Synthetic (SG rated from 1993) in my 'collection'.....the bottom of the containers are always lined with black sediment.....I stir it up and pour it in my OPE......they run great on it.....

 

[berlyn]

Good afternoon all,

thank you all for your kind feedback. Update: the remaining gel like 'sediment' was added to the engine after cutting off the base of the bottles. I will check engine operation now.

 

[MolaKule]

I think what you're seeing is the VII copolymer.

Shake n Bake and it will be ok.

 

[berlyn]

Hello Molakule,

thank you for your kind and useful feedback as always. The substance was very tacky and of a very high VI, in room temp it was very hard to remove it by shaking the container so I ended up cutting up the bottom of the container.
After that i mixed it with a clean brush and it dissolved very easily. The container was HDPE. Can it be warmed up through a bain-marie or similar method or would be the container material integrity compromised?
Which temp would you propose as ideal in order to increase the solubility and dissolve the VII copolymer but not to create thermal shock by pouring the oil into the cold engine? (I always allow several hours for the old oil to drain, the engine reaches approx. ambient temp by then).

thank you