What oil would you consider or say is a cleaning oil

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted by OnTheRocks
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by sloinker
Transmission fluid mixed with kerosene I hear will clean out the old varnish.



Closer to grenade the engine.



Don't discourage science. Let him do it. Then we'll all find out.



There is no science which encourages anyone to try this is 2019. It's laughable you are encouraging anyone to try this.
 
How do we know an oil that turns blacker than another is doing it because it's cleaning better, and not some other reason like a chemical reaction?
 
Originally Posted by Silver
How do we know an oil that turns blacker than another is doing it because it's cleaning better, and not some other reason like a chemical reaction?


Oil turns black from oxidation. Oil that has more anti-oxidant will take longer to turn black (all else equal). Oils began turning black sooner after API SM due to ZDDP reduction since ZDDP is a good anti-oxidant as well as anti-wear additive.

Also note that some ashless dispersants turn dark from UV exposure (from combustion events) making the oil appear black when it actually isn't.

Black oil is not an indicator of cleaning action. It just means the oil has oxidized.

Contaminants like water and fuel dilution and silicon (dirt) act as catalysts for oxidation.
 
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Originally Posted by Silver
How do we know an oil that turns blacker than another is doing it because it's cleaning better, and not some other reason like a chemical reaction?


Oil turns black from oxidation. Oil that has more anti-oxidant will take longer to turn black (all else equal). Oils began turning black sooner after API SM due to ZDDP reduction since ZDDP is a good anti-oxidant as well as anti-wear additive.

Also note that some ashless dispersants turn dark from UV exposure (from combustion events) making the oil appear black when it actually isn't.

Black oil is not an indicator of cleaning action. It just means the oil has oxidized.

Contaminants like water and fuel dilution and silicon (dirt) act as catalysts for oxidation.


So if an oil takes a really long time to turn dark that could be a good indicator of a high level of ZDDP?
I was wondering how the 15W-40 HDEO i am using in my Escort just seems to take forever to turn dark, it never really gets black, just a brownish amber.
 
Originally Posted by FordCapriDriver
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Originally Posted by Silver
How do we know an oil that turns blacker than another is doing it because it's cleaning better, and not some other reason like a chemical reaction?


Oil turns black from oxidation. Oil that has more anti-oxidant will take longer to turn black (all else equal). Oils began turning black sooner after API SM due to ZDDP reduction since ZDDP is a good anti-oxidant as well as anti-wear additive.

Also note that some ashless dispersants turn dark from UV exposure (from combustion events) making the oil appear black when it actually isn't.

Black oil is not an indicator of cleaning action. It just means the oil has oxidized.

Contaminants like water and fuel dilution and silicon (dirt) act as catalysts for oxidation.


So if an oil takes a really long time to turn dark that could be a good indicator of a high level of ZDDP?
I was wondering how the 15W-40 HDEO i am using in my Escort just seems to take forever to turn dark, it never really gets black, just a brownish amber.


Not just ZDDP, but anti-oxidants in general. HDEO is loaded with anti-oxidants.

Diesel oil also contains ZDDP with primary type alkyl groups which are favored toward oxidation inhibition over wear protection.
 
Originally Posted by 53' Stude
So, we hear a lot that this or that oil cleans varnish off some areas etc. I always thought Mobil 1 was a pretty good cleaning oil and hear PUP/PP are too. What say the BITOG faithful?

Any oil that contains PAO or AN. 4.7 cSt Synessticâ„¢ AN has very good solvency. POE is even better. M1 Euro FS and ESP oils contain POE but only 5 - 8%. They don't contain AN. All other M1 oils contain AN but no POE. Possibly the M1 HM, especially the 5W-30 grade, contains more AN than other M1 flavors. M1 also advertises them as a deposit and sludge cleaner. So, go with M1 HM 5W-30 if you need a deposit and sludge cleaner. The best oil is Valvoline Premium Blue Restore which has about 50% POE and a good dose of AN, the rest being PAO and the standard Valvoline Premium Blue CK-4 HDEO additive package, but it's hard to find and expensive. Red Line High-Performance also has about 15% POE; so, it's good.

HDEOs having cleaning power is an old wives' tale. They wouldn't need Valvoline Premium Blue Restore, which is a scheduled maintenance item to clean the piston-ring carbon deposits for 18-wheelers, if they did, wouldn't they?
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted by Gokhan

Any oil that contains PAO or AN. 4.7 cSt Synessticâ„¢ AN has very good solvency.


Sorry, PAO doesn't have good solvency...
 
Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by Gokhan

Any oil that contains PAO or AN. 4.7 cSt Synessticâ„¢ AN has very good solvency.


Sorry, PAO doesn't have good solvency...


Beat me to it. The solvency and solubility of PAO is very low.
 
Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by Gokhan

Any oil that contains PAO or AN. 4.7 cSt Synessticâ„¢ AN has very good solvency.

Sorry, PAO doesn't have good solvency...

Oops, typo! I meant to type: Any oil that contains PAO POE or AN.

If you read the rest of my post, it lists the oils that contain POE or AN, not PAO.

Yes, PAO is a "dry" oil with poor solvency. GTL and Group III are also dry oils.

However, one advantage of PAO is that it resists oxidation and forming deposits. Therefore, it's a good combination to use PAO along with POE/AN, the latter of which bring the solvency. That's why Valvoline Premium Blue Restore is 50% POE + 10% AN + 20% PAO + 20% additive pack. To reduce deposits further, it is also VII-free -- in other words a monograde! It still has VI = 147 and qualifies as a SAE 10W-30 in addition to SAE 30.
 
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by noclutch
Back in the day and maybe once a year on older vehicles I'd dump a half a can of Marvel mystery oil in when engine was warm and then run down to the parts store and back 15-20 minutes drive time, with new oil for a change.


I've used MMO in the crankcase and left it in for a couple hundred miles before the oil change, it works great. Similarly, I've used Rislone's Engine Treatment with equally great results.


I've had a bottle of Rislone concentrate (4102) in the sump of the Corolla for 2500 miles and so far there's no darkening of the oil. In another 2500 miles I'll cut the filter, maybe the flakes from the timing cover are there.
 
Originally Posted by zorobabel
Mad_Hatter said:
I've used MMO in the crankcase and left it in for a couple hundred miles before the oil change, it works great. Similarly, I've used Rislone's Engine Treatment with equally great results.
I've had a bottle of Rislone concentrate (4102) in the sump of the Corolla for 2500 miles and so far there's no darkening of the oil. In another 2500 miles I'll cut the filter, maybe the flakes from the timing cover are there.


I began using it many moons ago when an old timer helped me solve a top end sound I was starting to get on an old Camry. We did a flush and I started using MMO and Rislone regularly. I actually kept the car up until a few years ago when it had over 300k miles on it. Great little Toyota 4 banger...
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by Gokhan

Any oil that contains PAO or AN. 4.7 cSt Synessticâ„¢ AN has very good solvency.

Sorry, PAO doesn't have good solvency...

Oops, typo! I meant to type: Any oil that contains PAO POE or AN.

If you read the rest of my post, it lists the oils that contain POE or AN, not PAO.


I DID read the rest of your post, so what you MEANT to say was

Quote
Any oil that contains PAO POE or AN. POE is even better.


I'm not sure that I follow the sense of POE being better than POE...or POE or AN, but clearly, that was your intent, as you say.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by Gokhan

Any oil that contains PAO or AN. 4.7 cSt Synessticâ„¢ AN has very good solvency.

Sorry, PAO doesn't have good solvency...

Oops, typo! I meant to type: Any oil that contains PAO POE or AN.

If you read the rest of my post, it lists the oils that contain POE or AN, not PAO.

I DID read the rest of your post, so what you MEANT to say was

Quote
Any oil that contains PAO POE or AN. POE is even better.


I'm not sure that I follow the sense of POE being better than POE...or POE or AN, but clearly, that was your intent, as you say.

Oh, I said "Any oil that contains PAO POE or AN. 4.7 cSt Synessticâ„¢ AN has very good solvency. POE is even better."

So, I meant POE is better than AN because it has a lower aniline point and higher kari - butanol (Kb) value. I have those values listed here:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...ly-alkylated-naphthalene-an-#Post5115897

Interestingly, according to the patent, they used the 12.4 cSt Synessticâ„¢ 12 AN in the Valvoline Premium Blue Restore, which has far inferior solvency than the 4.7 cSt one. It appears that they wanted to keep the base oil thick so that they could avoid using a VII.

Formula #4 is likely the commercial formula:

[Linked Image]
 
I gave Motor Medic Motor Flush a try on the 03 Maxima recently. And contrary to what I thought might happen, the multiple gasket leaks on that engine slowed substantially. Nothing on the driveway at all the past 2 weeks! I'm guessing the cleanup gave the seals better exposure to HM oil.

[Linked Image]
 
I have been using M1 5-30 high mileage in a truck I recently acquired that was fairly neglected on oil changes. In just 2k miles it has eaten the varnish right off the dipstick. The low to full marks of the dipstick looks brand new now compared to the rest of the stick. Seems to be cleaning well to me
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by LeakySeals
I gave Motor Medic Motor Flush a try on the 03 Maxima recently. And contrary to what I thought might happen, the multiple gasket leaks on that engine slowed substantially. Nothing on the driveway at all the past 2 weeks! I'm guessing the cleanup gave the seals better exposure to HM oil.

[Linked Image]


You may need to change your name.
 
Originally Posted by TheLawnRanger
Originally Posted by LeakySeals
I gave Motor Medic Motor Flush a try on the 03 Maxima recently. And contrary to what I thought might happen, the multiple gasket leaks on that engine slowed substantially. Nothing on the driveway at all the past 2 weeks! I'm guessing the cleanup gave the seals better exposure to HM oil.

[Linked Image]


You may need to change your name.

...€
 
Originally Posted by LeakySeals
I gave Motor Medic Motor Flush a try on the 03 Maxima recently. And contrary to what I thought might happen, the multiple gasket leaks on that engine slowed substantially. Nothing on the driveway at all the past 2 weeks! I'm guessing the cleanup gave the seals better exposure to HM oil.



Brave man......
 
I used to try and show what i found

https://youtu.be/zf27FQsh3Nc

but all but give up trying to change peoples opinions on this site. especially the ones who have never tried anything and actually cut open their filters to see if they got any results like i did.

I just know i am almost to 290k miles on an engine i got full of sludge at 211k and its still running strong.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top