Originally Posted by Falcon_LS
.... DOT 5.1 fluid changed every 6 months....
You change brake fluid twice a year?
.... DOT 5.1 fluid changed every 6 months....
You change brake fluid twice a year?
2019 - 502/505 is dead in US
- Thread starter vinu_neuro
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Originally Posted by biodiesel
Originally Posted by edyvw
Only problem with your thinking is that EA888 is built around heavy oils, and that they are STILL running on VW504.00/507.00 STRICTLY in Europe. Only reason why VW508.00/509.00 is recommended in US is CAFE.
If I was buying brand new VW with that oil in, I would tell them right there in dealership to switch to VW504.00/507.00 or VW502.00 before I take out car.
Couldn't agree more. After seeing this spec change from VW I feel blessed I bought my GTI in 2018. No chance I would run a 0W20 in this motor.
I've been running Redline 5W40 year round since the first oil change at 1K miles. NOACK of 6 and HTHS of 4.4. I'm currently at 26K miles and average 38-41mpg on my 60 mile round trip to and from work. 85% highway driving. Best mileage I've seen on the screen during a slow crawl home one day was 44.2 mpg. I could give two craps about the extra 4% I could gain with 508. I drive hard and will be going Stage II this fall. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
The engines that spec 508 do NOT spec a heavier oil in Europe. I have no idea where people get this stuff...
As far as the 508 spec, it's been discussed an nauseum, but the fact that it's not back-spec'd makes me think there must be some changes to the engine (I've heard about a different oil pump?)
Originally Posted by edyvw
Only problem with your thinking is that EA888 is built around heavy oils, and that they are STILL running on VW504.00/507.00 STRICTLY in Europe. Only reason why VW508.00/509.00 is recommended in US is CAFE.
If I was buying brand new VW with that oil in, I would tell them right there in dealership to switch to VW504.00/507.00 or VW502.00 before I take out car.
Couldn't agree more. After seeing this spec change from VW I feel blessed I bought my GTI in 2018. No chance I would run a 0W20 in this motor.
I've been running Redline 5W40 year round since the first oil change at 1K miles. NOACK of 6 and HTHS of 4.4. I'm currently at 26K miles and average 38-41mpg on my 60 mile round trip to and from work. 85% highway driving. Best mileage I've seen on the screen during a slow crawl home one day was 44.2 mpg. I could give two craps about the extra 4% I could gain with 508. I drive hard and will be going Stage II this fall. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
The engines that spec 508 do NOT spec a heavier oil in Europe. I have no idea where people get this stuff...
As far as the 508 spec, it's been discussed an nauseum, but the fact that it's not back-spec'd makes me think there must be some changes to the engine (I've heard about a different oil pump?)
Originally Posted by JOD
Originally Posted by biodiesel
Originally Posted by edyvw
Only problem with your thinking is that EA888 is built around heavy oils, and that they are STILL running on VW504.00/507.00 STRICTLY in Europe. Only reason why VW508.00/509.00 is recommended in US is CAFE.
If I was buying brand new VW with that oil in, I would tell them right there in dealership to switch to VW504.00/507.00 or VW502.00 before I take out car.
Couldn't agree more. After seeing this spec change from VW I feel blessed I bought my GTI in 2018. No chance I would run a 0W20 in this motor.
I've been running Redline 5W40 year round since the first oil change at 1K miles. NOACK of 6 and HTHS of 4.4. I'm currently at 26K miles and average 38-41mpg on my 60 mile round trip to and from work. 85% highway driving. Best mileage I've seen on the screen during a slow crawl home one day was 44.2 mpg. I could give two craps about the extra 4% I could gain with 508. I drive hard and will be going Stage II this fall. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
The engines that spec 508 do NOT spec a heavier oil in Europe. I have no idea where people get this stuff...
As far as the 508 spec, it's been discussed an nauseum, but the fact that it's not back-spec'd makes me think there must be some changes to the engine (I've heard about a different oil pump?)
It has been opined that the heavier stuff is used in Europe because of the recent introduction of gasoline particulate filters. 508 is A1/B1 whereas 504 is Cx
Originally Posted by biodiesel
Originally Posted by edyvw
Only problem with your thinking is that EA888 is built around heavy oils, and that they are STILL running on VW504.00/507.00 STRICTLY in Europe. Only reason why VW508.00/509.00 is recommended in US is CAFE.
If I was buying brand new VW with that oil in, I would tell them right there in dealership to switch to VW504.00/507.00 or VW502.00 before I take out car.
Couldn't agree more. After seeing this spec change from VW I feel blessed I bought my GTI in 2018. No chance I would run a 0W20 in this motor.
I've been running Redline 5W40 year round since the first oil change at 1K miles. NOACK of 6 and HTHS of 4.4. I'm currently at 26K miles and average 38-41mpg on my 60 mile round trip to and from work. 85% highway driving. Best mileage I've seen on the screen during a slow crawl home one day was 44.2 mpg. I could give two craps about the extra 4% I could gain with 508. I drive hard and will be going Stage II this fall. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
The engines that spec 508 do NOT spec a heavier oil in Europe. I have no idea where people get this stuff...
As far as the 508 spec, it's been discussed an nauseum, but the fact that it's not back-spec'd makes me think there must be some changes to the engine (I've heard about a different oil pump?)
It has been opined that the heavier stuff is used in Europe because of the recent introduction of gasoline particulate filters. 508 is A1/B1 whereas 504 is Cx
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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by JOD
Originally Posted by biodiesel
Originally Posted by edyvw
Only problem with your thinking is that EA888 is built around heavy oils, and that they are STILL running on VW504.00/507.00 STRICTLY in Europe. Only reason why VW508.00/509.00 is recommended in US is CAFE.
If I was buying brand new VW with that oil in, I would tell them right there in dealership to switch to VW504.00/507.00 or VW502.00 before I take out car.
Couldn't agree more. After seeing this spec change from VW I feel blessed I bought my GTI in 2018. No chance I would run a 0W20 in this motor.
I've been running Redline 5W40 year round since the first oil change at 1K miles. NOACK of 6 and HTHS of 4.4. I'm currently at 26K miles and average 38-41mpg on my 60 mile round trip to and from work. 85% highway driving. Best mileage I've seen on the screen during a slow crawl home one day was 44.2 mpg. I could give two craps about the extra 4% I could gain with 508. I drive hard and will be going Stage II this fall. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
The engines that spec 508 do NOT spec a heavier oil in Europe. I have no idea where people get this stuff...
As far as the 508 spec, it's been discussed an nauseum, but the fact that it's not back-spec'd makes me think there must be some changes to the engine (I've heard about a different oil pump?)
It has been opined that the heavier stuff is used in Europe because of the recent introduction of gasoline particulate filters. 508 is A1/B1 whereas 504 is Cx
The heavier stuff is a byproduct of an existing specification that offers a lower SAP's than the new spec that allows for a higher SAP's limit. Just wait until VAG combines thinner, lower HTHS with low-SAPs into a oil requirement.
The Castrol 508.00/509.00 stuff is .75% sulfated ash.
The Castrol 504.00/507.00 stuff is .64% Sulfated ash
Originally Posted by JOD
Originally Posted by biodiesel
Originally Posted by edyvw
Only problem with your thinking is that EA888 is built around heavy oils, and that they are STILL running on VW504.00/507.00 STRICTLY in Europe. Only reason why VW508.00/509.00 is recommended in US is CAFE.
If I was buying brand new VW with that oil in, I would tell them right there in dealership to switch to VW504.00/507.00 or VW502.00 before I take out car.
Couldn't agree more. After seeing this spec change from VW I feel blessed I bought my GTI in 2018. No chance I would run a 0W20 in this motor.
I've been running Redline 5W40 year round since the first oil change at 1K miles. NOACK of 6 and HTHS of 4.4. I'm currently at 26K miles and average 38-41mpg on my 60 mile round trip to and from work. 85% highway driving. Best mileage I've seen on the screen during a slow crawl home one day was 44.2 mpg. I could give two craps about the extra 4% I could gain with 508. I drive hard and will be going Stage II this fall. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
The engines that spec 508 do NOT spec a heavier oil in Europe. I have no idea where people get this stuff...
As far as the 508 spec, it's been discussed an nauseum, but the fact that it's not back-spec'd makes me think there must be some changes to the engine (I've heard about a different oil pump?)
It has been opined that the heavier stuff is used in Europe because of the recent introduction of gasoline particulate filters. 508 is A1/B1 whereas 504 is Cx
The heavier stuff is a byproduct of an existing specification that offers a lower SAP's than the new spec that allows for a higher SAP's limit. Just wait until VAG combines thinner, lower HTHS with low-SAPs into a oil requirement.
The Castrol 508.00/509.00 stuff is .75% sulfated ash.
The Castrol 504.00/507.00 stuff is .64% Sulfated ash
Last edited:
Quote
The heavier stuff is a byproduct of an existing specification that offers a lower SAP's than the new spec that allows for a higher SAP's limit. Just wait until VAG combines thinner, lower HTHS with low-SAPs into a oil requirement.
The Castrol 508.00/509.00 stuff is .75% sulfated ash.
The Castrol 504.00/507.00 stuff is .64% Sulfated ash
VW 504.00/507.00 has higher SAPS limit. Mobil1 ESP 5W30 has VW 504.00/507.00 approval and SAP's is at 0.8%.
What is going to be new specification? VW509.00 is already DPF compatible as it is diesel specification. Why GPF requires lower SAP's than DPF?
The heavier stuff is a byproduct of an existing specification that offers a lower SAP's than the new spec that allows for a higher SAP's limit. Just wait until VAG combines thinner, lower HTHS with low-SAPs into a oil requirement.
The Castrol 508.00/509.00 stuff is .75% sulfated ash.
The Castrol 504.00/507.00 stuff is .64% Sulfated ash
VW 504.00/507.00 has higher SAPS limit. Mobil1 ESP 5W30 has VW 504.00/507.00 approval and SAP's is at 0.8%.
What is going to be new specification? VW509.00 is already DPF compatible as it is diesel specification. Why GPF requires lower SAP's than DPF?
Originally Posted by edyvw
Quote
The heavier stuff is a byproduct of an existing specification that offers a lower SAP's than the new spec that allows for a higher SAP's limit. Just wait until VAG combines thinner, lower HTHS with low-SAPs into a oil requirement.
The Castrol 508.00/509.00 stuff is .75% sulfated ash.
The Castrol 504.00/507.00 stuff is .64% Sulfated ash
VW 504.00/507.00 has higher SAPS limit. Mobil1 ESP 5W30 has VW 504.00/507.00 approval and SAP's is at 0.8%.
What is going to be new specification? VW509.00 is already DPF compatible as it is diesel specification. Why GPF requires lower SAP's than DPF?
It's odd. I'm seeing 508/509 advertised as being based off the now defunct (as of 2018) A1/B1 standard OR the current C5. Perhaps VW changed the formula?
Ex. MOTUL 508/509 as A1/B1, LM Top Tech 6200 508/509 as C5
Quote
The heavier stuff is a byproduct of an existing specification that offers a lower SAP's than the new spec that allows for a higher SAP's limit. Just wait until VAG combines thinner, lower HTHS with low-SAPs into a oil requirement.
The Castrol 508.00/509.00 stuff is .75% sulfated ash.
The Castrol 504.00/507.00 stuff is .64% Sulfated ash
VW 504.00/507.00 has higher SAPS limit. Mobil1 ESP 5W30 has VW 504.00/507.00 approval and SAP's is at 0.8%.
What is going to be new specification? VW509.00 is already DPF compatible as it is diesel specification. Why GPF requires lower SAP's than DPF?
It's odd. I'm seeing 508/509 advertised as being based off the now defunct (as of 2018) A1/B1 standard OR the current C5. Perhaps VW changed the formula?
Ex. MOTUL 508/509 as A1/B1, LM Top Tech 6200 508/509 as C5
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Originally Posted by MCompact
Back in August 1995 I had sold my M6 and my Club Sport wouldn't be delivered until November. I had a chance to attend an HPDE and the only remotely suitable car in my garage was a 1985 Thunderbird Turbo with a manual transmission. I decided to check out the brakes on a deserted bypass that was under construction. The first stop from 80 mph was drama free. During the second stop from 80 the pedal went to the floor- in spite of fresh brake fluid and semi-metallic front pads. Contemporary Mustang 5.0 brakes were equally bad. At Putnam Park a friend's Mustang GT would use up all its brakes slowing for Turn 1(140 mph down to 80 mph).
About that same time I remember hearing a European automotive engineer say, "The difference between American and European drivers is: European drivers don't care if the brakes squeal, just as long as they stop the car; American drivers don't care if the brakes stop the car, just as long as they don't squeal."
Sounds right to me. Every now and then, I will get some squeal from my EBC brakes, but it doesn't bother me. I panic when the pedal feels spongy and travels further down than it usually does.
As European pads also tend to use a softer compound, they tend to dust more, but I thoroughly clean my wheels once a week and that eliminates that problem.
Originally Posted by Vaca
You change brake fluid twice a year?
Yes. A liter of brake fluid, an assistant, a clear hose, a bottle and 15 minutes. Well worth the time and money.
Back in August 1995 I had sold my M6 and my Club Sport wouldn't be delivered until November. I had a chance to attend an HPDE and the only remotely suitable car in my garage was a 1985 Thunderbird Turbo with a manual transmission. I decided to check out the brakes on a deserted bypass that was under construction. The first stop from 80 mph was drama free. During the second stop from 80 the pedal went to the floor- in spite of fresh brake fluid and semi-metallic front pads. Contemporary Mustang 5.0 brakes were equally bad. At Putnam Park a friend's Mustang GT would use up all its brakes slowing for Turn 1(140 mph down to 80 mph).
About that same time I remember hearing a European automotive engineer say, "The difference between American and European drivers is: European drivers don't care if the brakes squeal, just as long as they stop the car; American drivers don't care if the brakes stop the car, just as long as they don't squeal."
Sounds right to me. Every now and then, I will get some squeal from my EBC brakes, but it doesn't bother me. I panic when the pedal feels spongy and travels further down than it usually does.
As European pads also tend to use a softer compound, they tend to dust more, but I thoroughly clean my wheels once a week and that eliminates that problem.
Originally Posted by Vaca
You change brake fluid twice a year?
Yes. A liter of brake fluid, an assistant, a clear hose, a bottle and 15 minutes. Well worth the time and money.
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
It's odd. I'm seeing 508/509 advertised as being based off the now defunct (as of 2018) A1/B1 standard OR the current C5.
In the early days of mid-SAPS, low HTHS 0W-20 oils there was no obvious place for them in the ACEA landscape - A1/B1 was the only place where they fitted the limits (you couldn't have an oil B1 will likely be added to early-adopter oils simply because they can, not because it really offers any benefit over and above the OEM spec being claimed.
It's odd. I'm seeing 508/509 advertised as being based off the now defunct (as of 2018) A1/B1 standard OR the current C5.
In the early days of mid-SAPS, low HTHS 0W-20 oils there was no obvious place for them in the ACEA landscape - A1/B1 was the only place where they fitted the limits (you couldn't have an oil B1 will likely be added to early-adopter oils simply because they can, not because it really offers any benefit over and above the OEM spec being claimed.
As far as I can work out here in the UK the manuals say the car requires 508 oil but 504 is suitable. If it was mine, I'd be putting 504 in.
In fact, my Volvo that specifies RBS0-2AE which is an ACEA C5 0w20 lube is currently running Castrol Edge 5w30 LL which is VW 504/507.
In fact, my Volvo that specifies RBS0-2AE which is an ACEA C5 0w20 lube is currently running Castrol Edge 5w30 LL which is VW 504/507.
Originally Posted by Falcon_LS
Originally Posted by Vaca
You change brake fluid twice a year?
Yes. A liter of brake fluid, an assistant, a clear hose, a bottle and 15 minutes. Well worth the time and money.
Darn, you sure are vigilant!
I typically do the turkey baster shortcut once a year or so, and then full fluid change every couple of years or when I replace the pads.
Originally Posted by Vaca
You change brake fluid twice a year?
Yes. A liter of brake fluid, an assistant, a clear hose, a bottle and 15 minutes. Well worth the time and money.
Darn, you sure are vigilant!
I typically do the turkey baster shortcut once a year or so, and then full fluid change every couple of years or when I replace the pads.
Originally Posted by Vaca
Originally Posted by Falcon_LS
Originally Posted by Vaca
You change brake fluid twice a year?
Yes. A liter of brake fluid, an assistant, a clear hose, a bottle and 15 minutes. Well worth the time and money.
Darn, you sure are vigilant!
I typically do the turkey baster shortcut once a year or so, and then full fluid change every couple of years or when I replace the pads.
All European cars have required brake fluid flush every two years.
Originally Posted by Falcon_LS
Originally Posted by Vaca
You change brake fluid twice a year?
Yes. A liter of brake fluid, an assistant, a clear hose, a bottle and 15 minutes. Well worth the time and money.
Darn, you sure are vigilant!
I typically do the turkey baster shortcut once a year or so, and then full fluid change every couple of years or when I replace the pads.
All European cars have required brake fluid flush every two years.
Yeah.....but they rarely change it.....unless you insist for that
They just "charge" you for that......and do it when/IF needed ( if you have problems with your brakes)
Dont ask me how I know
Dont ask me how I know
Originally Posted by Kamele0N
Yeah.....but they rarely change it.....unless you insist for that
They just "charge" you for that......and do it when/IF needed ( if you have problems with your brakes)
Dont ask me how I know
That may be true of your dealer, but that certainly hasn't been the case with my BMW, Mini, or Mazda dealers.
Yeah.....but they rarely change it.....unless you insist for that
Dont ask me how I know
That may be true of your dealer, but that certainly hasn't been the case with my BMW, Mini, or Mazda dealers.
Originally Posted by Kamele0N
Yeah.....but they rarely change it.....unless you insist for that
They just "charge" you for that......and do it when/IF needed ( if you have problems with your brakes)
Dont ask me how I know
It depends on country to country, culture to culture. Officially you need to replace fluid every two year, and in Slovenia no reader will read boiling point where it should be for technical inspection. Whether they will elt you go or not, doe not have to do anything with brakes, but with corruption.
Yeah.....but they rarely change it.....unless you insist for that
Dont ask me how I know
It depends on country to country, culture to culture. Officially you need to replace fluid every two year, and in Slovenia no reader will read boiling point where it should be for technical inspection. Whether they will elt you go or not, doe not have to do anything with brakes, but with corruption.
Originally Posted by Vaca
Darn, you sure are vigilant!
I typically do the turkey baster shortcut once a year or so, and then full fluid change every couple of years or when I replace the pads.
I start off by attaching the clear hose to the end of an injection syringe and remove as much fluid as possible, until the reservoir is dry. I then refill to the MAX line and get to the calipers, starting with the right rear. Doesn't take long at all.
Originally Posted by edyvw
All European cars have required brake fluid flush every two years.
Driving here is a mess, particularly in the summer when temperatures are upwards of 120°F. Heck it was 113°F at 22:30 last night.
The roads are horrible, and there are a lot of bottlenecks, particularly in contruction zones. Hence driving at a rate of 120 - 150 km/h (75 - ~94 MPH) and having to come to a complete stop, followed by multiple complete stops from 60 - 80 km/h (~38 - 50 MPH) takes its toll on the brakes. I have experienced brake fade in some Japanese vehicles at noon, which was scary.
Regardless, the brake fluid darkens pretty quick and by the time it's got 15,000 km (~9,400 miles) on it, it looks like really dark olive oil. Getting the fluid out regularly keeps it fresh, improves pedal feel and braking definitely feels firmer.
Darn, you sure are vigilant!
I typically do the turkey baster shortcut once a year or so, and then full fluid change every couple of years or when I replace the pads.
I start off by attaching the clear hose to the end of an injection syringe and remove as much fluid as possible, until the reservoir is dry. I then refill to the MAX line and get to the calipers, starting with the right rear. Doesn't take long at all.
Originally Posted by edyvw
All European cars have required brake fluid flush every two years.
Driving here is a mess, particularly in the summer when temperatures are upwards of 120°F. Heck it was 113°F at 22:30 last night.
The roads are horrible, and there are a lot of bottlenecks, particularly in contruction zones. Hence driving at a rate of 120 - 150 km/h (75 - ~94 MPH) and having to come to a complete stop, followed by multiple complete stops from 60 - 80 km/h (~38 - 50 MPH) takes its toll on the brakes. I have experienced brake fade in some Japanese vehicles at noon, which was scary.
Regardless, the brake fluid darkens pretty quick and by the time it's got 15,000 km (~9,400 miles) on it, it looks like really dark olive oil. Getting the fluid out regularly keeps it fresh, improves pedal feel and braking definitely feels firmer.
Originally Posted by Falcon_LS
Originally Posted by Vaca
Darn, you sure are vigilant!
I typically do the turkey baster shortcut once a year or so, and then full fluid change every couple of years or when I replace the pads.
I start off by attaching the clear hose to the end of an injection syringe and remove as much fluid as possible, until the reservoir is dry. I then refill to the MAX line and get to the calipers, starting with the right rear. Doesn't take long at all.
Originally Posted by edyvw
All European cars have required brake fluid flush every two years.
Driving here is a mess, particularly in the summer when temperatures are upwards of 120°F. Heck it was 113°F at 22:30 last night.
The roads are horrible, and there are a lot of bottlenecks, particularly in contruction zones. Hence driving at a rate of 120 - 150 km/h (75 - ~94 MPH) and having to come to a complete stop, followed by multiple complete stops from 60 - 80 km/h (~38 - 50 MPH) takes its toll on the brakes. I have experienced brake fade in some Japanese vehicles at noon, which was scary.
Regardless, the brake fluid darkens pretty quick and by the time it's got 15,000 km (~9,400 miles) on it, it looks like really dark olive oil. Getting the fluid out regularly keeps it fresh, improves pedal feel and braking definitely feels firmer.
What fluid you use?
Originally Posted by Vaca
Darn, you sure are vigilant!
I typically do the turkey baster shortcut once a year or so, and then full fluid change every couple of years or when I replace the pads.
I start off by attaching the clear hose to the end of an injection syringe and remove as much fluid as possible, until the reservoir is dry. I then refill to the MAX line and get to the calipers, starting with the right rear. Doesn't take long at all.
Originally Posted by edyvw
All European cars have required brake fluid flush every two years.
Driving here is a mess, particularly in the summer when temperatures are upwards of 120°F. Heck it was 113°F at 22:30 last night.
The roads are horrible, and there are a lot of bottlenecks, particularly in contruction zones. Hence driving at a rate of 120 - 150 km/h (75 - ~94 MPH) and having to come to a complete stop, followed by multiple complete stops from 60 - 80 km/h (~38 - 50 MPH) takes its toll on the brakes. I have experienced brake fade in some Japanese vehicles at noon, which was scary.
Regardless, the brake fluid darkens pretty quick and by the time it's got 15,000 km (~9,400 miles) on it, it looks like really dark olive oil. Getting the fluid out regularly keeps it fresh, improves pedal feel and braking definitely feels firmer.
What fluid you use?
Originally Posted by Falcon_LS
Originally Posted by edyvw
What fluid you use?
Initially, I stuck with Pentosin Super DOT 4 and later switched to Motul DOT 5.1.
Try ATE TYP200.
Originally Posted by edyvw
What fluid you use?
Initially, I stuck with Pentosin Super DOT 4 and later switched to Motul DOT 5.1.
Try ATE TYP200.
Castrol LMA DOT 4 for me, which is cheaper than DOT 3 from my supplier. I just use gravity bleed after finding out how well it worked, many years too late!
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